If the price was $9999.99 would you buy one?

Zack Birlew · March 14th, 2005, 06:53 PM

Ha ha Peter, you got pwned! ^_^

Michael Struthers · March 14th, 2005, 07:48 PM

At 10k, it's probably a rental.

At 5k, it's a buy.

In between is the magic of marketing pricing....

Chris Hurd · March 14th, 2005, 08:39 PM

Don't forget to factor in the value of an included P2 card. That's always a possiblity.

Rhett Allen · March 14th, 2005, 09:02 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Chris Hurd : Don't forget to factor in the value of an included P2 card -->>>

Or two... it' would be nice to actually "use" the camera for more than a few minutes. Of course I'm not holding my breath. It's like Sony including a 16MB media card with their cameras. What a joke, my Clie' has more memory!

Peter Jefferson · March 14th, 2005, 10:50 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Jack Felis : Ha ha Peter, you got pwned! ^_^ -->>>

excuse me?? i dont think i got whatever it is you call it..

the techs at Rexel here in Aus (the distributors of all the Pana Pro Gear over here) were telling me that it woudl be 25/50 switchable here in Pal land. Any higher and it would be too expensive to convert existing users. Already your looking at a $50k plus investment in this format, that includes cameras cards, accessories, editing, delivery.. its not cheap

it may record in 100mbps but as far as Panasonic over here in Aus are concerned, delivery is within 25 and 50mbps, being that it may well be downsampling...

Jesus, theres just so much attitude on this board its not funny...

as for Jan, well i agree, his/her info has been on the money and i dont doubt what he/shes written,

But think about it.. dvcpro100.... well then if a digisuite is crunching out a dvcpro50 codec stream and can barely push 2 streams at once with a scsi array and dual xeons, something will definately need to be done at the post end of thinds, coz at the moment it doesnt even seem that the Axio or Avid would be able to push this kinda data... especially if were talking about actual DVCProHD100...

I'll forward this thread onto the panasonc guys here in Aus, and hopefully they can get some further info, coz theyre working on the Pal spec at the moment

Chris Hurd · March 14th, 2005, 11:16 PM

Peter, there are attitudes no matter where you go. This still is one of the friendliest boards you'll find anywhere.

as for Jan, it is HER info and it's what SHE has written, and she should know, she's the product manager. Could be there's a difference between the PAL & NTSC models... but I'm sure everything will be made clear by the third week in April!

;-)

Cheers,

Zack Birlew · March 14th, 2005, 11:41 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Peter Jefferson : <<<-- Originally posted by Jack Felis : Ha ha Peter, you got pwned! ^_^ -->>>

excuse me?? i dont think i got whatever it is you call it.. -->>>

Hey, Peter, don't get bent outta shape about it. "pwned" means "owned". It's an online videogame term used in most games, it means whenever someone is fragged/killed/defeated in some way by someone else. Jan, as Chris has already stated, is the product manager for Panasonic. She would know what the camera does in/out and especially what it looks like. So, in effect, her setting you straight on the subject = "pwned". Get it? I meant it as a joke, no attitude meant by it, hence my "^_^" at the end. It makes an anime cartoon smile, see?

...

Then again, I don't want to imply that you don't know what internet smilies are, I was just referring to... mine.... man, the hole just keeps getting deeper and deeper doesn't it? ^_^;;;

";" = "anime embarassment drops"

Brad Abrahams · March 15th, 2005, 06:53 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Peter Jefferson :
But think about it.. dvcpro100.... well then if a digisuite is crunching out a dvcpro50 codec stream and can barely push 2 streams at once with a scsi array and dual xeons, something will definately need to be done at the post end of thinds, coz at the moment it doesnt even seem that the Axio or Avid would be able to push this kinda data... especially if were talking about actual DVCProHD100... -->>>

I've just been editing DVCPRO 100 material in Xpress Pro HD on my comparitively low end single Athlon XP2700 without a RAID, so Matrox is definitely doing something wrong.

Barry Green · March 15th, 2005, 01:50 PM

Yeah, I know FCP editors who claim two streams of realtime DVCPRO-HD, including color correction.

Joe Carney · March 15th, 2005, 05:54 PM

I think its reasonable with todays hardware. With the new SATA 3 systems out, and affordable 64bit systems out later this year, DV100 won't be too much to handle. The digisuite and other boards was designed back when DV50 was too much for most desktop systems.

Plus Cineform and others have already stated they will have lower bit rate conversion/codecs to handle it.

Michael Struthers · March 15th, 2005, 07:58 PM

I am currently editing all my HD stuff on my ipod...

...that a joke.

Luis Caffesse · March 16th, 2005, 09:25 AM

"it's possible (perhaps even likely) that it may record only the "active" frames, which would make for a lower data rate"

Not sure how much creedence to give this, but Steve Mullen claims he has confirmed that the camera will only record the 'active' frames.

That would mean about 13.5 minutes of 720p24 footaqe per 4GB P2 card.

Get 2 P2 cards and you're shooting 27 minutes at a time.
If that's actually the case, and if Panasonic bundles cards with the camera, these things will fly off the shelves at $9999.99

Just my 2 cents

Brandon Greenlee · March 16th, 2005, 09:39 AM

Since it doesn't have adhere to some pre-existing standard (DV, HDV) you would have wonder why they wouldn't only record the actual framerate, unless this would create major reconstruction problems when trying to drop into standardized NLE timelines.

Luis Caffesse · March 16th, 2005, 09:46 AM

"Since it doesn't have adhere to some pre-existing standard (DV, HDV) "

Well, it actually does have to adhere to some pre-existing standard. The footage would have to adhere to the specs of the DVCPro, DVCPro50, and DVCProHD codecs.

What it doesn't have to adhere to is the mechanics and limitations of a tape transport, which is the reason the Varicam runs at 60fps no matter the frame rate chosen.
24P is part of the DVCProHD spec.

My question would be, if only the active frames are written, yet Jan stresses that the P2 cards can handle the 100mbs datarate, and that the camera will shoot DVCProHD at 100mbs... does that mean we will have 720p at 60fps, like the varicam?

Obviously we'll have to wait and see... only a few weeks left.

Michael Struthers · March 16th, 2005, 01:25 PM

You can bet Panny will not shoot themselves in the foot with P2 storage. I expect one card to be included in the camera price. 13 minutes would be more than enough for narrative work, especially if you could offload it in 2 -3 mins. Just like changing a film roll.

March 14th, 2005, 06:53 PM	#16
Zack Birlew Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 613	Ha ha Peter, you got pwned! ^_^ __________________ "Babs Do or Babs Do not, there is no try." - Zack Birlew www.BabsDoProductions.com

March 14th, 2005, 07:48 PM	#17
Michael Struthers Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: SF, Ca Posts: 421	At 10k, it's probably a rental. At 5k, it's a buy. In between is the magic of marketing pricing.... __________________ Michael Struthers www.buzzdigital.com

March 14th, 2005, 08:39 PM	#18
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Don't forget to factor in the value of an included P2 card. That's always a possiblity. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

March 14th, 2005, 11:16 PM	#21
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Peter, there are attitudes no matter where you go. This still is one of the friendliest boards you'll find anywhere. as for Jan, it is HER info and it's what SHE has written, and she should know, she's the product manager. Could be there's a difference between the PAL & NTSC models... but I'm sure everything will be made clear by the third week in April! ;-) Cheers, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

March 14th, 2005, 11:41 PM	#22
Zack Birlew Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 613	<<<-- Originally posted by Peter Jefferson : <<<-- Originally posted by Jack Felis : Ha ha Peter, you got pwned! ^_^ -->>> excuse me?? i dont think i got whatever it is you call it.. -->>> Hey, Peter, don't get bent outta shape about it. "pwned" means "owned". It's an online videogame term used in most games, it means whenever someone is fragged/killed/defeated in some way by someone else. Jan, as Chris has already stated, is the product manager for Panasonic. She would know what the camera does in/out and especially what it looks like. So, in effect, her setting you straight on the subject = "pwned". Get it? I meant it as a joke, no attitude meant by it, hence my "^_^" at the end. It makes an anime cartoon smile, see? ... Then again, I don't want to imply that you don't know what internet smilies are, I was just referring to... mine.... man, the hole just keeps getting deeper and deeper doesn't it? ^_^;;; ";" = "anime embarassment drops" __________________ "Babs Do or Babs Do not, there is no try." - Zack Birlew www.BabsDoProductions.com

March 14th, 2005, 09:02 PM	#19
Rhett Allen Major Player Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Plano, TX Posts: 607	<<<-- Originally posted by Chris Hurd : Don't forget to factor in the value of an included P2 card -->>> Or two... it' would be nice to actually "use" the camera for more than a few minutes. Of course I'm not holding my breath. It's like Sony including a 16MB media card with their cameras. What a joke, my Clie' has more memory!

March 14th, 2005, 10:50 PM	#20
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	<<<-- Originally posted by Jack Felis : Ha ha Peter, you got pwned! ^_^ -->>> excuse me?? i dont think i got whatever it is you call it.. the techs at Rexel here in Aus (the distributors of all the Pana Pro Gear over here) were telling me that it woudl be 25/50 switchable here in Pal land. Any higher and it would be too expensive to convert existing users. Already your looking at a $50k plus investment in this format, that includes cameras cards, accessories, editing, delivery.. its not cheap it may record in 100mbps but as far as Panasonic over here in Aus are concerned, delivery is within 25 and 50mbps, being that it may well be downsampling... Jesus, theres just so much attitude on this board its not funny... as for Jan, well i agree, his/her info has been on the money and i dont doubt what he/shes written, But think about it.. dvcpro100.... well then if a digisuite is crunching out a dvcpro50 codec stream and can barely push 2 streams at once with a scsi array and dual xeons, something will definately need to be done at the post end of thinds, coz at the moment it doesnt even seem that the Axio or Avid would be able to push this kinda data... especially if were talking about actual DVCProHD100... I'll forward this thread onto the panasonc guys here in Aus, and hopefully they can get some further info, coz theyre working on the Pal spec at the moment

March 15th, 2005, 06:53 AM	#23
Brad Abrahams Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 65	<<<-- Originally posted by Peter Jefferson : But think about it.. dvcpro100.... well then if a digisuite is crunching out a dvcpro50 codec stream and can barely push 2 streams at once with a scsi array and dual xeons, something will definately need to be done at the post end of thinds, coz at the moment it doesnt even seem that the Axio or Avid would be able to push this kinda data... especially if were talking about actual DVCProHD100... -->>> I've just been editing DVCPRO 100 material in Xpress Pro HD on my comparitively low end single Athlon XP2700 without a RAID, so Matrox is definitely doing something wrong.

March 15th, 2005, 01:50 PM	#24
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	Yeah, I know FCP editors who claim two streams of realtime DVCPRO-HD, including color correction.

March 15th, 2005, 05:54 PM	#25
Joe Carney Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Centreville Va Posts: 1,828	I think its reasonable with todays hardware. With the new SATA 3 systems out, and affordable 64bit systems out later this year, DV100 won't be too much to handle. The digisuite and other boards was designed back when DV50 was too much for most desktop systems. Plus Cineform and others have already stated they will have lower bit rate conversion/codecs to handle it.

March 15th, 2005, 07:58 PM	#26
Michael Struthers Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: SF, Ca Posts: 421	I am currently editing all my HD stuff on my ipod... ...that a joke. __________________ Michael Struthers www.buzzdigital.com

March 16th, 2005, 09:25 AM	#27
Luis Caffesse Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 704	"it's possible (perhaps even likely) that it may record only the "active" frames, which would make for a lower data rate" Not sure how much creedence to give this, but Steve Mullen claims he has confirmed that the camera will only record the 'active' frames. That would mean about 13.5 minutes of 720p24 footaqe per 4GB P2 card. Get 2 P2 cards and you're shooting 27 minutes at a time. If that's actually the case, and if Panasonic bundles cards with the camera, these things will fly off the shelves at $9999.99 Just my 2 cents __________________ Luis Caffesse Pitch Productions Austin, Texas

March 16th, 2005, 09:39 AM	#28
Brandon Greenlee Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: North Alabama Posts: 242	Since it doesn't have adhere to some pre-existing standard (DV, HDV) you would have wonder why they wouldn't only record the actual framerate, unless this would create major reconstruction problems when trying to drop into standardized NLE timelines. __________________ Brandon Greenlee

March 16th, 2005, 09:46 AM	#29
Luis Caffesse Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 704	"Since it doesn't have adhere to some pre-existing standard (DV, HDV) " Well, it actually does have to adhere to some pre-existing standard. The footage would have to adhere to the specs of the DVCPro, DVCPro50, and DVCProHD codecs. What it doesn't have to adhere to is the mechanics and limitations of a tape transport, which is the reason the Varicam runs at 60fps no matter the frame rate chosen. 24P is part of the DVCProHD spec. My question would be, if only the active frames are written, yet Jan stresses that the P2 cards can handle the 100mbs datarate, and that the camera will shoot DVCProHD at 100mbs... does that mean we will have 720p at 60fps, like the varicam? Obviously we'll have to wait and see... only a few weeks left. __________________ Luis Caffesse Pitch Productions Austin, Texas

March 16th, 2005, 01:25 PM	#30
Michael Struthers Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: SF, Ca Posts: 421	You can bet Panny will not shoot themselves in the foot with P2 storage. I expect one card to be included in the camera price. 13 minutes would be more than enough for narrative work, especially if you could offload it in 2 -3 mins. Just like changing a film roll. __________________ Michael Struthers www.buzzdigital.com