Panasonic HD (moved from Area 51 forum)

Jesse Bekas · February 6th, 2005, 12:23 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Peter Jefferson : ive seen 128GB cards available... more than enough for 25mbps recording. Just take a card out on each jkob and dont think about changing tape :)

other cards work as adapters and allow the use of 4 SD cards
I hav a brochure here... i just wish i could post an image of it.. -->>>

Did you actually mean 128 GB SD cards? Don't they have some kind of limit that's far under that?

Peter Jefferson · February 9th, 2005, 07:28 AM

no Jesse.. actual 128gb P2 cards..

SD cards only go up to 2gb at this point in time.. im sure theyll improve that by the time the cams come out ;)

Filip Kovcin · February 11th, 2005, 04:49 PM

look what i heard!

today i was in kind of bussines meeting with some people. i CANNOT say who they are (you will probably recognize the source), but the CONFIRMED info was following:

- company name P*******C
- appearance with new camcorder on this years NAB! (not mock-up! but working model)
- it's HD(V?)
- 50mb/s rate!!!
- solid state p2 solution
- progressive mode
- to hit the market - summer this year!
- price range similar to sony HDV (no info which one FX1 or Z1)
- possibly faster frame rates than 24/25/30 fps
- significant price drop for P2 cards!

so if this is true or close to - it looks that this link,

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...o-04_18_04.htm

mentioned earlier - is either an inspiration for the people on that meeting today, or their info is confirmation about nearest future. no info about 2006, just for summer this year. which looks much better for us.

and they said - well, this is JUST THE BEGINING!!!

ok. now - i know that many of you may say - hey there is nothing new here - the poor guy just edited our text and thoughts about pana rumors. nice. but i just wanted to say what i heared. they just said so.

filip

Chris Hurd · February 11th, 2005, 04:58 PM

Interesting! But I'll stand by my assertion that it ain't HDV (can't be, as that company is not an HDV consortium member) but most likely it records in an HD format that has been in existence for awhile now.

Filip Kovcin · February 11th, 2005, 06:36 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Chris Hurd : Interesting! But I'll stand by my assertion that it ain't HDV (can't be, as that company is not an HDV consortium member) but most likely it records in an HD format that has been in existence for awhile now. -->>>

that's the reason i used "( )" with "v" inside. i didn't received direct answer is it HDV?

is it HDV? - no specific answer
is it HD - yes!
what kind of HD - no specific answer... just: 50mb/s

and kind of misterious smiles, like - you will see... soon...

well, let's wait and see:)

filip

Shannon Rawls · February 11th, 2005, 08:05 PM

Welp,

If it's a better cordless drill then the one I have now....I'll buy one. *shrugs*

In the meantime, I'll use the cordless drill I just bought to continue building houses. I should have built enough houses by the time the new drill comes out to have paid for my current drill.

Others who wish to wait idly-by, twidling their thumbs for the realease of the new upcoming feature-packed cordless drill, can do so......... ME...........I'm going to work.

*wink*

- ShannonRawls.com

Ignacio Rodriguez · February 11th, 2005, 10:41 PM

As far as I can remember the only 50 Mbps codec is DVCPRO50 (D9), not HD. And then there is DVCPROHD (D-9HD) that runs at 100 Mbps for 1280x720.

So is it MPEG2-based? That would make it similar to HDV, like an "HDVPRO" kind of thing. Or it could be MPEG4 based, an AVC implementation. That would be groundbreaking stuff. MPEG4 AVC @ 50 Mbps would VERY high quality!

Can't wait to know more.

Chris Hurd · February 12th, 2005, 12:16 AM

<< In the meantime, I'll use the cordless drill I just bought to continue building houses. I should have built enough houses by the time the new drill comes out to have paid for my current drill. >>

Man, finally! Finally someone around here understands exactly how this process is supposed to work! Thanks Shannon, I keep telling some of these guys that the power tools should pay for themselves within 60 to 90 days or so and then you sell it and move up to the new one. Maybe they'll listen to you, I never seem to be able to get this point across.

Guys, if you're waiting, you're not creating! Buy what you need Now... then sell it... and buy the next new thing. Lather, rinse, repeat. And save your original boxes.

Filip Kovcin · February 12th, 2005, 04:39 AM

chris,

do not forget about collectors ;)

thay just LOVE nice things...

filip

Brandon Greenlee · February 12th, 2005, 03:26 PM

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...B-with-24P.htm

So it records to MiniDV as well, eh?

Filip Kovcin · February 12th, 2005, 03:39 PM

hm,

it looks that my source was not kidding... nice!

filip

p.s.

i just bought Z1...

no comments

Brandon Greenlee · February 12th, 2005, 04:18 PM

I think that as long as this psonic camera is closer to 10k than to the fx1 - both the fx1/z1 one will be safe.

Now how low would the price have to be to make fx1/z1 purchasers consider this camera in their evaluations I don't know.

Its good for everybody that Panasonic is making a camera such as this, but I don't really think its going to effect much of us on the <$4k end of the spectrum.

I guess we'll all see soon though.

Peter Jefferson · February 12th, 2005, 11:48 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Brandon Greenlee : http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...B-with-24P.htm

So it records to MiniDV as well, eh? -->>>

no it wont do that.. they woudlnt go to this much trouble if it did.. it would defeat the purpose of P2. most likely it will have 2 p2 slots which can be removed on the fly...

Joe Carney · February 24th, 2005, 12:56 PM

Another term for dvcpro hd is dv100, a spec promoted by Pana and JVC since late 90's.

It uses the same error correction algorithm as dv25, but less compression (3 to 1 instead of 5 to 1), and of course larger resolution. 1280x720x60p at 8bit 4:2:2 sampling with 3:1 compression works out to 100mb (megabits not bytes). And like Dv25 its a lossy codec, but the same would apply to converting to mpeg2 also.

Seems Pana will have their version out before JVC. I half expect to see D9HD in the not so distant future even if JVC is part of the HDV consortium.

FYI, If I remember correctly, 1280x720 at 60p was supposed to be specifically for live sporting events.

Barry Green · February 26th, 2005, 03:19 AM

A small correction, the compression ratio for DVCPRO50 is 3.3:1, but for DVCPRO-HD it's more like 6.7:1. It's capable of recording both 1080i and 720p. The new HDX400 is a DVCPRO-HD 1080i camera, and the VariCam is a DVCPRO-HD 720p camera.

February 11th, 2005, 04:49 PM	#33
Filip Kovcin Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: warsaw, poland Posts: 440	again! look what i heard! today i was in kind of bussines meeting with some people. i CANNOT say who they are (you will probably recognize the source), but the CONFIRMED info was following: - company name P*******C - appearance with new camcorder on this years NAB! (not mock-up! but working model) - it's HD(V?) - 50mb/s rate!!! - solid state p2 solution - progressive mode - to hit the market - summer this year! - price range similar to sony HDV (no info which one FX1 or Z1) - possibly faster frame rates than 24/25/30 fps - significant price drop for P2 cards! so if this is true or close to - it looks that this link, http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...o-04_18_04.htm mentioned earlier - is either an inspiration for the people on that meeting today, or their info is confirmation about nearest future. no info about 2006, just for summer this year. which looks much better for us. and they said - well, this is JUST THE BEGINING!!! ok. now - i know that many of you may say - hey there is nothing new here - the poor guy just edited our text and thoughts about pana rumors. nice. but i just wanted to say what i heared. they just said so. filip __________________ in kino (sic!) veritas

February 11th, 2005, 04:58 PM	#34
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Interesting! But I'll stand by my assertion that it ain't HDV (can't be, as that company is not an HDV consortium member) but most likely it records in an HD format that has been in existence for awhile now. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

February 11th, 2005, 06:36 PM	#35
Filip Kovcin Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: warsaw, poland Posts: 440	<<<-- Originally posted by Chris Hurd : Interesting! But I'll stand by my assertion that it ain't HDV (can't be, as that company is not an HDV consortium member) but most likely it records in an HD format that has been in existence for awhile now. -->>> that's the reason i used "( )" with "v" inside. i didn't received direct answer is it HDV? is it HDV? - no specific answer is it HD - yes! what kind of HD - no specific answer... just: 50mb/s and kind of misterious smiles, like - you will see... soon... well, let's wait and see:) filip __________________ in kino (sic!) veritas

February 11th, 2005, 10:41 PM	#37
Ignacio Rodriguez Contributor Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Santiago, Chile Posts: 932	As far as I can remember the only 50 Mbps codec is DVCPRO50 (D9), not HD. And then there is DVCPROHD (D-9HD) that runs at 100 Mbps for 1280x720. So is it MPEG2-based? That would make it similar to HDV, like an "HDVPRO" kind of thing. Or it could be MPEG4 based, an AVC implementation. That would be groundbreaking stuff. MPEG4 AVC @ 50 Mbps would VERY high quality! Can't wait to know more. __________________ Ignacio Rodríguez in the third world. @micronauta on Twitter. Main hardware: brain, eyes, hands.

February 12th, 2005, 12:16 AM	#38
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	<< In the meantime, I'll use the cordless drill I just bought to continue building houses. I should have built enough houses by the time the new drill comes out to have paid for my current drill. >> Man, finally! Finally someone around here understands exactly how this process is supposed to work! Thanks Shannon, I keep telling some of these guys that the power tools should pay for themselves within 60 to 90 days or so and then you sell it and move up to the new one. Maybe they'll listen to you, I never seem to be able to get this point across. Guys, if you're waiting, you're not creating! Buy what you need Now... then sell it... and buy the next new thing. Lather, rinse, repeat. And save your original boxes. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

February 6th, 2005, 12:23 PM	#31
Jesse Bekas Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Ridgefield Park, New Jersey, USA Posts: 572	<<<-- Originally posted by Peter Jefferson : ive seen 128GB cards available... more than enough for 25mbps recording. Just take a card out on each jkob and dont think about changing tape :) other cards work as adapters and allow the use of 4 SD cards I hav a brochure here... i just wish i could post an image of it.. -->>> Did you actually mean 128 GB SD cards? Don't they have some kind of limit that's far under that?

February 9th, 2005, 07:28 AM	#32
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	no Jesse.. actual 128gb P2 cards.. SD cards only go up to 2gb at this point in time.. im sure theyll improve that by the time the cams come out ;)

February 11th, 2005, 08:05 PM	#36
Shannon Rawls Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 853	Welp, If it's a better cordless drill then the one I have now....I'll buy one. shrugs In the meantime, I'll use the cordless drill I just bought to continue building houses. I should have built enough houses by the time the new drill comes out to have paid for my current drill. Others who wish to wait idly-by, twidling their thumbs for the realease of the new upcoming feature-packed cordless drill, can do so......... ME...........I'm going to work. wink - ShannonRawls.com

February 12th, 2005, 04:39 AM	#39
Filip Kovcin Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: warsaw, poland Posts: 440	chris, do not forget about collectors ;) thay just LOVE nice things... filip __________________ in kino (sic!) veritas

February 12th, 2005, 03:26 PM	#40
Brandon Greenlee Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: North Alabama Posts: 242	http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...B-with-24P.htm So it records to MiniDV as well, eh? __________________ Brandon Greenlee

February 12th, 2005, 03:39 PM	#41
Filip Kovcin Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: warsaw, poland Posts: 440	hm, it looks that my source was not kidding... nice! filip p.s. i just bought Z1... no comments __________________ in kino (sic!) veritas

February 12th, 2005, 04:18 PM	#42
Brandon Greenlee Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: North Alabama Posts: 242	I think that as long as this psonic camera is closer to 10k than to the fx1 - both the fx1/z1 one will be safe. Now how low would the price have to be to make fx1/z1 purchasers consider this camera in their evaluations I don't know. Its good for everybody that Panasonic is making a camera such as this, but I don't really think its going to effect much of us on the <$4k end of the spectrum. I guess we'll all see soon though. __________________ Brandon Greenlee

February 12th, 2005, 11:48 PM	#43
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	<<<-- Originally posted by Brandon Greenlee : http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...B-with-24P.htm So it records to MiniDV as well, eh? -->>> no it wont do that.. they woudlnt go to this much trouble if it did.. it would defeat the purpose of P2. most likely it will have 2 p2 slots which can be removed on the fly...

February 24th, 2005, 12:56 PM	#44
Joe Carney Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Centreville Va Posts: 1,828	Another term for dvcpro hd is dv100, a spec promoted by Pana and JVC since late 90's. It uses the same error correction algorithm as dv25, but less compression (3 to 1 instead of 5 to 1), and of course larger resolution. 1280x720x60p at 8bit 4:2:2 sampling with 3:1 compression works out to 100mb (megabits not bytes). And like Dv25 its a lossy codec, but the same would apply to converting to mpeg2 also. Seems Pana will have their version out before JVC. I half expect to see D9HD in the not so distant future even if JVC is part of the HDV consortium. FYI, If I remember correctly, 1280x720 at 60p was supposed to be specifically for live sporting events.

February 26th, 2005, 03:19 AM	#45
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	A small correction, the compression ratio for DVCPRO50 is 3.3:1, but for DVCPRO-HD it's more like 6.7:1. It's capable of recording both 1080i and 720p. The new HDX400 is a DVCPRO-HD 1080i camera, and the VariCam is a DVCPRO-HD 720p camera.