Panasonic HD (moved from Area 51 forum)

Jesse Bekas · January 29th, 2005, 06:54 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Lawrence Bansbach : <<<-- Originally posted by Peter Jefferson :
. . .

-Prosumer DVX HDV solution . . .

U heard it here first.. ;) -->>>

HDV, by definition, is tape based. From everything I've read, the Panasonic P2-based camera will be partially compatible with HDV, but won't support 19-Mbps rate. -->>>

"HDV" seems to be being used as a catchall phrase for cheap HDDV by some lately. I don't think he meant that it would be tape based.

Lawrence Bansbach · January 30th, 2005, 04:46 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Jesse Bekas :

"HDV" seems to be being used as a catchall phrase for cheap HDDV by some lately. I don't think he meant that it would be tape based. -->>>

That was my point. "HDV" should not be used as a catchall phrase. It should be reserved for the consumer HD format that meets the specifications of the HDV consortium -- that is, a tape-based format that runs at 720p25/720p30 and 19 Mbps or 1080i50/1080i60 and 25 Mbps. I can readily understand why, from a marketing perspective, Panasonic might want to emphasize that its P2-based system is not HDV: it will (according to rumors) support both 720p and 1080i, data rates up to 50 Mbps, and maybe even 24p. And solid-state storage will become paractical when 32-GB P2 capacities drop to, say, $100 or so, or if Panasonic adopts another, cheaper, higher-bandwidth flash-card format, such as the recently announced Taiwanese standard, M-card, which will support data transfer of 120 megaBYTES per second and may eventually hold 2 terabytes of data.

Cedar Connor · February 1st, 2005, 10:23 AM

here is the link to photos and info on the p2 DVCPro HD camera:

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/panasonic-p2-flash-pro-04_18_04.htm

More Photos:

http://www.cinematography.com/forum2004/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=101

http://www.cinematography.com/forum2004/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=102

Bill Ravens · February 1st, 2005, 10:27 AM

Now here's something I could get my wallet around...;o)
Eat your heart out, Sony.

Michael Struthers · February 1st, 2005, 01:17 PM

JVC *could* really make a killer cam, if they could get there sh*t together. They've had two models to practice on...

Panny *will* make a great cam, but I guess they will stick with 1/3 chips to protect their product line.

Bring it on, man!!

Rhett Allen · February 1st, 2005, 02:48 PM

Holy Crap that's a sweet looking camera! Droooooool! I want, I want!

Ignacio Rodriguez · February 1st, 2005, 02:51 PM

Strange that JVC and Panasonic end up being mentioned on such opposite terms in the same post... after all they are almost the same company.

Actually I think all these companies can make the great cams we want. They just wouldn't make enough money that way.

But then, when all the HDV smoke clears up... there will be Canon, patiently waiting to say the last word.

Peter Jefferson · February 1st, 2005, 05:22 PM

god i hope it doesnt look like that.. maybe for the dvc30 hdv equivalent, but i think they should keep the original DVX100 design and rework the stabiliser coz its sux.

As for the consortium, in all honesty, i dont blame pana for not being a part of it, but at the moment "HDV" this is all we have to use as a title until this format is officially announced.

Ivan Hurtado · February 1st, 2005, 07:03 PM

Canon will be patiently waiting with HDV XL3, but it won´t be useful for nothing. In fact, people with XL2 have their crappy infinite ring, if they dont want it, spend 2000 $ on new lenses, if they cant afford so big lenses, get the adapter for still lenses and multiply their range by 7.2 (getting nice telescopes) or try the mini35 wich is quite a bit amount of money (men, 10.000 $!!). And if the want to try these "alternative adapters" sections, it will be impossible for them because of being really difficult to find relay mounts (or something like this, very instructive in any case).

And the tapes issue, of course. I don´t think they will hear us to get rid of them...

Good old Pana won´t need all of this... and will accept these alternative adapters easy with little work to get great results. I hope even will still be able to flip the image with the magnet, very good add-on indeed.

Anyway, being from Spain and new in this aspect... When is the NAB? any way to get info? Will be people from here getting into there and sending nice posts?

I was a normal person before knowing this forum... Now im just totally nuts about it, in just two weeks! I even get anxious about the NAB not knowing it before! Just nuts!

Chris Hurd · February 1st, 2005, 08:21 PM

Peter...

<< at the moment "HDV" this is all we have to use as a title until this format is officially announced >>

Panasonic's format has been announced, and it's been around for awhile now. It's DVCPro HD. I have to agree that calling it "HDV" is really misleading, because it ain't HDV at all (and never will be).

Ivan...

NAB is the third week in April. I'll be there and so will many other DV Info Net members, I'm sure.

Ivan Hurtado · February 1st, 2005, 09:19 PM

Thanks very much for the info Chris!

I will have to rely on you people here (it is well said?) to get what happened since magazines here don´t cover it very much (nothing). I wish i could go...

Thanks again to everybody!

Jose di Cani · February 2nd, 2005, 04:17 PM

for the same price....what would you prefer?

the normal DVX or the DVX HDV?

You guessed it all right...I would go for the normal DVX cause you can't trust new tehnologies. Too many problems with sound and distortion with the HDV cams.

Ignacio Rodriguez · February 2nd, 2005, 04:53 PM

> Too many problems with sound and distortion with the HDV cams.

What? Is this based on personal experience?

If, an HDV enabled DVX existed, it would surely be able to operate in non-HDV mode like the Sony FX1/Z1. So, you could always just use god 'ol DV with it's outdated DCT compression, anamorphic widescreen, standard resolution and linear audio.

Gary McClurg · February 2nd, 2005, 05:38 PM

I'm interested in the DVCPROHD that has been talked about.

Not sure about the P2 system. Still haven't found out the costs of the cards and currently they don't hold that much information.

Would like to see a tape as a back as well as recording to the card.

But if people say hey I'm happy with the old, will they make a lot of changes. If they hear people want changes they'll hopefully make those changes.

Peter Jefferson · February 6th, 2005, 03:55 AM

ive seen 128GB cards available... more than enough for 25mbps recording. Just take a card out on each jkob and dont think about changing tape :)

other cards work as adapters and allow the use of 4 SD cards
I hav a brochure here... i just wish i could post an image of it..

January 29th, 2005, 06:54 PM	#16
Jesse Bekas Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Ridgefield Park, New Jersey, USA Posts: 572	Re: Re: Panasonic HDV... <<<-- Originally posted by Lawrence Bansbach : <<<-- Originally posted by Peter Jefferson : . . . -Prosumer DVX HDV solution . . . U heard it here first.. ;) -->>> HDV, by definition, is tape based. From everything I've read, the Panasonic P2-based camera will be partially compatible with HDV, but won't support 19-Mbps rate. -->>> "HDV" seems to be being used as a catchall phrase for cheap HDDV by some lately. I don't think he meant that it would be tape based.

January 30th, 2005, 04:46 PM	#17
Lawrence Bansbach Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 295	Re: Re: Re: Panasonic HDV... <<<-- Originally posted by Jesse Bekas : "HDV" seems to be being used as a catchall phrase for cheap HDDV by some lately. I don't think he meant that it would be tape based. -->>> That was my point. "HDV" should not be used as a catchall phrase. It should be reserved for the consumer HD format that meets the specifications of the HDV consortium -- that is, a tape-based format that runs at 720p25/720p30 and 19 Mbps or 1080i50/1080i60 and 25 Mbps. I can readily understand why, from a marketing perspective, Panasonic might want to emphasize that its P2-based system is not HDV: it will (according to rumors) support both 720p and 1080i, data rates up to 50 Mbps, and maybe even 24p. And solid-state storage will become paractical when 32-GB P2 capacities drop to, say, $100 or so, or if Panasonic adopts another, cheaper, higher-bandwidth flash-card format, such as the recently announced Taiwanese standard, M-card, which will support data transfer of 120 megaBYTES per second and may eventually hold 2 terabytes of data.

February 1st, 2005, 01:17 PM	#20
Michael Struthers Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: SF, Ca Posts: 421	JVC could really make a killer cam, if they could get there sht together. They've had two models to practice on... Panny will* make a great cam, but I guess they will stick with 1/3 chips to protect their product line. Bring it on, man!! __________________ Michael Struthers www.buzzdigital.com

February 1st, 2005, 02:51 PM	#22
Ignacio Rodriguez Contributor Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Santiago, Chile Posts: 932	Strange that JVC and Panasonic end up being mentioned on such opposite terms in the same post... after all they are almost the same company. Actually I think all these companies can make the great cams we want. They just wouldn't make enough money that way. But then, when all the HDV smoke clears up... there will be Canon, patiently waiting to say the last word. __________________ Ignacio Rodríguez in the third world. @micronauta on Twitter. Main hardware: brain, eyes, hands.

February 1st, 2005, 07:03 PM	#24
Ivan Hurtado Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Granada, Spain Posts: 75	Canon will be patiently waiting with HDV XL3, but it won´t be useful for nothing. In fact, people with XL2 have their crappy infinite ring, if they dont want it, spend 2000 $ on new lenses, if they cant afford so big lenses, get the adapter for still lenses and multiply their range by 7.2 (getting nice telescopes) or try the mini35 wich is quite a bit amount of money (men, 10.000 $!!). And if the want to try these "alternative adapters" sections, it will be impossible for them because of being really difficult to find relay mounts (or something like this, very instructive in any case). And the tapes issue, of course. I don´t think they will hear us to get rid of them... Good old Pana won´t need all of this... and will accept these alternative adapters easy with little work to get great results. I hope even will still be able to flip the image with the magnet, very good add-on indeed. Anyway, being from Spain and new in this aspect... When is the NAB? any way to get info? Will be people from here getting into there and sending nice posts? I was a normal person before knowing this forum... Now im just totally nuts about it, in just two weeks! I even get anxious about the NAB not knowing it before! Just nuts! __________________ IvI

February 1st, 2005, 10:23 AM	#18
Cedar Connor Tourist Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: New York City Posts: 1	here is the link to photos and info on the p2 DVCPro HD camera: http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/panasonic-p2-flash-pro-04_18_04.htm More Photos: http://www.cinematography.com/forum2004/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=101 http://www.cinematography.com/forum2004/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=102

February 1st, 2005, 10:27 AM	#19
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	Now here's something I could get my wallet around...;o) Eat your heart out, Sony.

February 1st, 2005, 02:48 PM	#21
Rhett Allen Major Player Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Plano, TX Posts: 607	Holy Crap that's a sweet looking camera! Droooooool! I want, I want!

February 1st, 2005, 05:22 PM	#23
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	god i hope it doesnt look like that.. maybe for the dvc30 hdv equivalent, but i think they should keep the original DVX100 design and rework the stabiliser coz its sux. As for the consortium, in all honesty, i dont blame pana for not being a part of it, but at the moment "HDV" this is all we have to use as a title until this format is officially announced.

February 1st, 2005, 08:21 PM	#25
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Peter... << at the moment "HDV" this is all we have to use as a title until this format is officially announced >> Panasonic's format has been announced, and it's been around for awhile now. It's DVCPro HD. I have to agree that calling it "HDV" is really misleading, because it ain't HDV at all (and never will be). Ivan... NAB is the third week in April. I'll be there and so will many other DV Info Net members, I'm sure. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

February 1st, 2005, 09:19 PM	#26
Ivan Hurtado Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Granada, Spain Posts: 75	Thanks very much for the info Chris! I will have to rely on you people here (it is well said?) to get what happened since magazines here don´t cover it very much (nothing). I wish i could go... Thanks again to everybody! __________________ IvI

February 2nd, 2005, 04:17 PM	#27
Jose di Cani Major Player Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Holland, Europe Posts: 214	for the same price....what would you prefer? the normal DVX or the DVX HDV? You guessed it all right...I would go for the normal DVX cause you can't trust new tehnologies. Too many problems with sound and distortion with the HDV cams.

February 2nd, 2005, 04:53 PM	#28
Ignacio Rodriguez Contributor Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Santiago, Chile Posts: 932	> Too many problems with sound and distortion with the HDV cams. What? Is this based on personal experience? If, an HDV enabled DVX existed, it would surely be able to operate in non-HDV mode like the Sony FX1/Z1. So, you could always just use god 'ol DV with it's outdated DCT compression, anamorphic widescreen, standard resolution and linear audio. __________________ Ignacio Rodríguez in the third world. @micronauta on Twitter. Main hardware: brain, eyes, hands.

February 2nd, 2005, 05:38 PM	#29
Gary McClurg Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Springfield, MO, USA Posts: 389	I'm interested in the DVCPROHD that has been talked about. Not sure about the P2 system. Still haven't found out the costs of the cards and currently they don't hold that much information. Would like to see a tape as a back as well as recording to the card. But if people say hey I'm happy with the old, will they make a lot of changes. If they hear people want changes they'll hopefully make those changes.

February 6th, 2005, 03:55 AM	#30
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	ive seen 128GB cards available... more than enough for 25mbps recording. Just take a card out on each jkob and dont think about changing tape :) other cards work as adapters and allow the use of 4 SD cards I hav a brochure here... i just wish i could post an image of it..