Do drop outs happen with P2? at DVinfo.net

Jonathan Levin · April 13th, 2009, 10:30 AM

Greetings.

After editing a few projects recorded from a tape based HV30 Canon, I spent some time trying to clean up frame drop out (the block-y artifacts thaat happen over one or more frames).

I know that keeping the tape heads clean and the kind of tape makes a difference, but this got me wondering:

Does P2, Express and other capture to card video suffer the same drop-out issue as tape? Or is that something that just doesn't happen with card capture? That alone would make the switch to card capture worth it alone!!!

Thanks.

Jonathan

Barry Green · April 13th, 2009, 12:13 PM

No dropouts ever on P2.

You can get a dropout-like glitch when transferring the footage to a computer, but the recording on the card is always good, so if you use an app that verifies the data transferred then you should be permanently free forever from dropouts.

With SD card AVCHD products, you have to format the card in the camcorder to avoid all dropouts; sometimes you can get a glitchy dropout-looking thing happening if you haven't formatted the card.

But, yes, you're on the right track, solid state recording has meant absolutely no dropouts for the 3.5 years I've been using it. None.

Jonathan Levin · April 13th, 2009, 01:03 PM

Oh, man. Gets better all the time.

Thanks Barry for your answer.

Jonathan

Hanno di Rosa · April 13th, 2009, 02:54 PM

same with Firestore, no dropouts so far in 2 years. And files can be repaired on the card in case of failure ( never seen it happen with P2 but the utility is there in P2CMS) and so can the files on the FireStore.
I had one 1.9 Gb file on the FS 100 last month, that had not written the end tag and copying it back to the FS 100 and running the file repair utility several times, I got it back!

I do like the tape backup situation though! Hard discs are not giving me that much confidence. Same with DVD´s. Something tells me that those old DV tapes will still play in 15 years if stored correctly. No idea how long the lubricants on the ballbearings of hard discs are supposed to last....

Greg McGee · August 10th, 2009, 08:12 AM

We have some 8 GB P2 cards that are starting to give us trouble. Out of the 6 we got new with our cameras, 2 have started to fail. As the failures were intermittent, and I really wanted the footage on the cards, I refused to accept that it was gone, even when it appeared to be gone when I inserted the card in the camera. (There was no indication of a problem or failure as I was recording the shots.)
I had a feeling it was mechanical. Dust to be exact. So I got out the canned air and blew out the little holes in the end of the card. Reinserted the card, and viola! The footage reappeared.

I think dust in the holes may be the cause of a lot of failures out there, guys. Check it out, before you throw it out!

Tom Klein · August 11th, 2009, 03:56 AM

I have shot lots of Drought yarns and Dust storms over the past few years, (News), about six years ago I shot on a DSR300 recording DVcam tape, The dropouts/digital breakup in the vision when shooting dust etc made about 80% of the shoot unusable , and, it took many hours off the heads, and many hours to clean the cam.

I then stepped up to a DSR570 with a HDD at the rear, that was much better than tape but was an awkward configuration.

Last 2.5 years I've been shooting on P2 with amazing results by comparision in these dust storms and dirty environment we have to work in.
As a precaution I run Sticky tape / durex tape around the P2 cards sliding door cover. a quick clean down in the studio after the shoot is about all that's required.

pic attached of camera on ground while dust is blowing down the throat of the cam, vision/audio was great, cleaning took about 10mins..especially viewfinder rubber..
Try that with a tape based cam and it's a very short/expensive shoot...

Cheers

Peter Richardson · August 12th, 2009, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry Green

No dropouts ever on P2.

You can get a dropout-like glitch when transferring the footage to a computer, but the recording on the card is always good, so if you use an app that verifies the data transferred then you should be permanently free forever from dropouts.

With SD card AVCHD products, you have to format the card in the camcorder to avoid all dropouts; sometimes you can get a glitchy dropout-looking thing happening if you haven't formatted the card.

But, yes, you're on the right track, solid state recording has meant absolutely no dropouts for the 3.5 years I've been using it. None.

I've shot probably close to 1000 hours with P2 now and have only had one drop out. It was an actual P2 "glitch", not user error, and lasted two seconds. But that is a pretty amazing track record.

Peter

Robert Lane · August 14th, 2009, 11:11 AM

Jonathan,

Since the first HVX200 shipped in 2005 all of our non-film productions have been P2-based. Because the system is solid-state there's no chance of dropouts. We've only had one camera unit that was faulty due to a manufacturing defect (2005-era HVX) but other than that the entire system has been rock-solid and 100% reliable.

April 13th, 2009, 10:30 AM	#1
Jonathan Levin Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Chicago, Illinois USA Posts: 692	Do drop outs happen with P2? Greetings. After editing a few projects recorded from a tape based HV30 Canon, I spent some time trying to clean up frame drop out (the block-y artifacts thaat happen over one or more frames). I know that keeping the tape heads clean and the kind of tape makes a difference, but this got me wondering: Does P2, Express and other capture to card video suffer the same drop-out issue as tape? Or is that something that just doesn't happen with card capture? That alone would make the switch to card capture worth it alone!!! Thanks. Jonathan

August 10th, 2009, 08:12 AM	#5
Greg McGee Tourist Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: San Angelo, Texas Posts: 1	P2 Card Failures -- something to try! We have some 8 GB P2 cards that are starting to give us trouble. Out of the 6 we got new with our cameras, 2 have started to fail. As the failures were intermittent, and I really wanted the footage on the cards, I refused to accept that it was gone, even when it appeared to be gone when I inserted the card in the camera. (There was no indication of a problem or failure as I was recording the shots.) I had a feeling it was mechanical. Dust to be exact. So I got out the canned air and blew out the little holes in the end of the card. Reinserted the card, and viola! The footage reappeared. I think dust in the holes may be the cause of a lot of failures out there, guys. Check it out, before you throw it out!

August 11th, 2009, 03:56 AM	#6
Tom Klein Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Australia Vic Posts: 160	I have shot lots of Drought yarns and Dust storms over the past few years, (News), about six years ago I shot on a DSR300 recording DVcam tape, The dropouts/digital breakup in the vision when shooting dust etc made about 80% of the shoot unusable , and, it took many hours off the heads, and many hours to clean the cam. I then stepped up to a DSR570 with a HDD at the rear, that was much better than tape but was an awkward configuration. Last 2.5 years I've been shooting on P2 with amazing results by comparision in these dust storms and dirty environment we have to work in. As a precaution I run Sticky tape / durex tape around the P2 cards sliding door cover. a quick clean down in the studio after the shoot is about all that's required. pic attached of camera on ground while dust is blowing down the throat of the cam, vision/audio was great, cleaning took about 10mins..especially viewfinder rubber.. Try that with a tape based cam and it's a very short/expensive shoot... Cheers Attached Thumbnails __________________ Tom K www.olinevideo.com.au

April 13th, 2009, 12:13 PM	#2
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	No dropouts ever on P2. You can get a dropout-like glitch when transferring the footage to a computer, but the recording on the card is always good, so if you use an app that verifies the data transferred then you should be permanently free forever from dropouts. With SD card AVCHD products, you have to format the card in the camcorder to avoid all dropouts; sometimes you can get a glitchy dropout-looking thing happening if you haven't formatted the card. But, yes, you're on the right track, solid state recording has meant absolutely no dropouts for the 3.5 years I've been using it. None.

April 13th, 2009, 01:03 PM	#3
Jonathan Levin Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Chicago, Illinois USA Posts: 692	Oh, man. Gets better all the time. Thanks Barry for your answer. Jonathan

April 13th, 2009, 02:54 PM	#4
Hanno di Rosa Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Tuscany Italy Posts: 38	same with Firestore, no dropouts so far in 2 years. And files can be repaired on the card in case of failure ( never seen it happen with P2 but the utility is there in P2CMS) and so can the files on the FireStore. I had one 1.9 Gb file on the FS 100 last month, that had not written the end tag and copying it back to the FS 100 and running the file repair utility several times, I got it back! I do like the tape backup situation though! Hard discs are not giving me that much confidence. Same with DVD´s. Something tells me that those old DV tapes will still play in 15 years if stored correctly. No idea how long the lubricants on the ballbearings of hard discs are supposed to last....

August 14th, 2009, 11:11 AM	#8
Robert Lane Go Go Godzilla Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ USA Posts: 2,823 Images: 15	Jonathan, Since the first HVX200 shipped in 2005 all of our non-film productions have been P2-based. Because the system is solid-state there's no chance of dropouts. We've only had one camera unit that was faulty due to a manufacturing defect (2005-era HVX) but other than that the entire system has been rock-solid and 100% reliable.