This cam seems amazing for the price ag-hpx300

April 10th, 2009, 06:28 PM

Learn about Panasonic's AG-HPX300

I only just came across it but there seems little or no discussion here about it. I forgive the overpriced P2 cards for THAT spec. Seems like Sony's PDW 700 but at half the price. Spec is like a pro Dv camcorder like a DSR 450/570 but it's HD & SD!!!

Cant believe my eyes really!

What's the word as I surely have to pause my EX3 purchase now? This Panny however only does NTSC type framerates...:-(

BD

Barry Green · April 11th, 2009, 08:37 AM

The European HPX301 does both NTSC and PAL.

Chris Hurd · April 11th, 2009, 10:45 AM

Moved from AVCCAM to P2 HD.

Steve Phillipps · April 11th, 2009, 11:12 AM

1/3" chips instead of 2/3", CMOS instead of CCD, P2 instead of discs, rolling shutter instead of global, 10 bit I frame codec instead of 8 bit long GOP.
Apart from that, yes very similar to the PDW700!
Steve

Dan Brockett · April 11th, 2009, 02:17 PM

Hi Ben:

I have been doing some work with this camera as Barry has. It is a very impressive tool, definitely far from perfect but mighty impressive for the money. Here is a link to some test footage I shot with it a few weeks ago March 20, 2009 Surfers Point - Panasonic HPX300 Prototype on Vimeo

I am working on an article that will go into great detail about my experience doing a bigger shoot with the camera. The article debut on Sunday, April 19th over at Kenneth Stone

Stay tuned.

Dan

April 11th, 2009, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Phillipps

1/3" chips instead of 2/3", CMOS instead of CCD, P2 instead of discs, rolling shutter instead of global, 10 bit I frame codec instead of 8 bit long GOP.
Apart from that, yes very similar to the PDW700!
Steve

P2 instead of discs - no shhh!!! I edit so long GOP is NOT a selling point ;-)

£10k in pocket - now what do we think about more important things like pictures and operation????

Also would I EVER lose a job to a 2/3" chip camera company????? Esp i'f i'm 1/3 chip-er??!!! ;-)

D

Steve Phillipps · April 11th, 2009, 03:52 PM

I'm just saying don't pay too much attention to specs, as you could just as easily say that it's just like an HPX3000 but with variable frame rates as well, so even better! It ain't.
"Cant believe my eyes really!" Exactly, don't!
Steve

Steve Phillipps · April 11th, 2009, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Digedig

Also would I EVER lose a job to a 2/3" chip camera company????? Esp i'f i'm 1/3 chip-er??!!! ;-)

D

FWIW Having a 1/3" chip puts it below BBC spec for HD delivery. But the codec as you hinted at is a big plus and preferable to long GOP.
Steve

April 12th, 2009, 03:33 AM

I've been trawling the spec again, in a 'don't look a gift horse in the mouth' type way, and can find no real details anywhere on the lens speed (Fujinon XT17x4.5BRM) or the signal to noise ratio of the chip - massive alarm bells ring due to this covert purposeful omission.. The EX3 for ref is F1.9 and chip S/N 54Db; Sony also give proper other info.

Interesting what you say about the Beeb Steve on a camera exceeding 1000 lines res!!! Be good to know why you suggest that, given also the proper full raster chip, 4:2:2 and the '2 bit better than 'Digi Beta' ' 10bit pix. My take on smaller chips is they need more light and have deeper DOF (and some use dodgy pixel shifting etc) but it isn't any dealbreaker at this price point AFAIK. Also the Beeb have chosen AVC-I as their long term archive CODEC - which this camera DOES.

I wonder if the CAC (Chromatic aberration) function is good? It is often an issue, and I was a bit disappointed to find quite a lot on a Digi Beta shot of a white tag I took the other day, and that using a lens costing more than this complete camera...

Finally, it looks like you can empty the P2 cards to an USB stick - IN CAMERA. No more laptop twiddling in lunchbreaks!!!!

I am (today ;-) ) SO reaching for the chequebook and ditching the EX3 idea. I need it Thursday though!!!

BD

Steve Phillipps · April 12th, 2009, 04:05 AM

It's sub-BBC due to the chip size, they stipulate 1/2" or bigger, but I'm with you in wondering why it should be a criteria really.
The reason the camera's cheap, same with the EXs is that CMOS is a lot cheaper than CCD, that's why this plethora of cameras has appeared with high spec and cheap price - including the RED. But common sense suggests that there will be issues with them otherwise all cams would use them.

Steve
.

Steve Phillipps · April 12th, 2009, 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Digedig

the '2 bit better than 'Digi Beta' ' 10bit pix.

AFAIK Digibeta is a 10 bit codec - we went backwards with 8 bit HD codecs for a while!

Steve

April 12th, 2009, 05:07 AM

Yes, sorry, you are right Steve - Digi Beta is actually 10 bit in camera (and 90Mbps). Most editing, on facilities using Avid at least, happens in 8 bit though as it drops the two LSB's. I think online editors print to Digi Beta tape in 8bit too...

Need to look into that more viz AVC I on Avid - maybe it supports proper 10 bit processing for SDI output now? Nice smooth grad skys at last maybe :-)

A few minutes ago I just took on a series (non broadcast) and now HAVE to have this camera and be up to speed on it by Weds. Gulp!

Thanks for your input.

BD

Steve Phillipps · April 12th, 2009, 05:25 AM

All I would say is if it's action-packed beware of the rolling shutter, again one of the reasons why it's so cheap, same with the EX.
Steve

Roger Shore · April 12th, 2009, 11:04 AM

This article: CMOS Rolling Shutter includes some useful details on rolling shutter issues, including some examples.

April 10th, 2009, 06:28 PM	#1
Ben Jones Posts: n/a	This cam seems amazing for the price ag-hpx300 - Learn about Panasonic's AG-HPX300 I only just came across it but there seems little or no discussion here about it. I forgive the overpriced P2 cards for THAT spec. Seems like Sony's PDW 700 but at half the price. Spec is like a pro Dv camcorder like a DSR 450/570 but it's HD & SD!!! Cant believe my eyes really! What's the word as I surely have to pause my EX3 purchase now? This Panny however only does NTSC type framerates...:-( BD

April 11th, 2009, 10:45 AM	#3
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Moved from AVCCAM to P2 HD. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

April 11th, 2009, 08:37 AM	#2
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	The European HPX301 does both NTSC and PAL.

April 11th, 2009, 11:12 AM	#4
Steve Phillipps Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 2,130	1/3" chips instead of 2/3", CMOS instead of CCD, P2 instead of discs, rolling shutter instead of global, 10 bit I frame codec instead of 8 bit long GOP. Apart from that, yes very similar to the PDW700! Steve

April 11th, 2009, 02:17 PM	#5
Dan Brockett Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 2,109	Hi Ben: I have been doing some work with this camera as Barry has. It is a very impressive tool, definitely far from perfect but mighty impressive for the money. Here is a link to some test footage I shot with it a few weeks ago March 20, 2009 Surfers Point - Panasonic HPX300 Prototype on Vimeo I am working on an article that will go into great detail about my experience doing a bigger shoot with the camera. The article debut on Sunday, April 19th over at Kenneth Stone Stay tuned. Dan

April 11th, 2009, 03:52 PM	#7
Steve Phillipps Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 2,130	I'm just saying don't pay too much attention to specs, as you could just as easily say that it's just like an HPX3000 but with variable frame rates as well, so even better! It ain't. "Cant believe my eyes really!" Exactly, don't! Steve

April 12th, 2009, 03:33 AM	#9
Ben Jones Posts: n/a	I've been trawling the spec again, in a 'don't look a gift horse in the mouth' type way, and can find no real details anywhere on the lens speed (Fujinon XT17x4.5BRM) or the signal to noise ratio of the chip - massive alarm bells ring due to this covert purposeful omission.. The EX3 for ref is F1.9 and chip S/N 54Db; Sony also give proper other info. Interesting what you say about the Beeb Steve on a camera exceeding 1000 lines res!!! Be good to know why you suggest that, given also the proper full raster chip, 4:2:2 and the '2 bit better than 'Digi Beta' ' 10bit pix. My take on smaller chips is they need more light and have deeper DOF (and some use dodgy pixel shifting etc) but it isn't any dealbreaker at this price point AFAIK. Also the Beeb have chosen AVC-I as their long term archive CODEC - which this camera DOES. I wonder if the CAC (Chromatic aberration) function is good? It is often an issue, and I was a bit disappointed to find quite a lot on a Digi Beta shot of a white tag I took the other day, and that using a lens costing more than this complete camera... Finally, it looks like you can empty the P2 cards to an USB stick - IN CAMERA. No more laptop twiddling in lunchbreaks!!!! I am (today ;-) ) SO reaching for the chequebook and ditching the EX3 idea. I need it Thursday though!!! BD

April 12th, 2009, 04:05 AM	#10
Steve Phillipps Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 2,130	It's sub-BBC due to the chip size, they stipulate 1/2" or bigger, but I'm with you in wondering why it should be a criteria really. The reason the camera's cheap, same with the EXs is that CMOS is a lot cheaper than CCD, that's why this plethora of cameras has appeared with high spec and cheap price - including the RED. But common sense suggests that there will be issues with them otherwise all cams would use them. Steve .

April 12th, 2009, 05:07 AM	#12
Ben Jones Posts: n/a	Yes, sorry, you are right Steve - Digi Beta is actually 10 bit in camera (and 90Mbps). Most editing, on facilities using Avid at least, happens in 8 bit though as it drops the two LSB's. I think online editors print to Digi Beta tape in 8bit too... Need to look into that more viz AVC I on Avid - maybe it supports proper 10 bit processing for SDI output now? Nice smooth grad skys at last maybe :-) A few minutes ago I just took on a series (non broadcast) and now HAVE to have this camera and be up to speed on it by Weds. Gulp! Thanks for your input. BD

April 12th, 2009, 05:25 AM	#13
Steve Phillipps Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 2,130	All I would say is if it's action-packed beware of the rolling shutter, again one of the reasons why it's so cheap, same with the EX. Steve

April 12th, 2009, 11:04 AM	#14
Roger Shore Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: UK Posts: 113	This article: CMOS Rolling Shutter includes some useful details on rolling shutter issues, including some examples.