DVCPRO HD 1080i 24/60 to 23.98 progressive? at DVinfo.net

Christopher Drews · January 2nd, 2008, 04:43 PM

I am shooting on the HVX-200 and want to de-interlace the 24/60i to 23.976.
I tried using JES de-interlacer but am having mediocre results.

What is the best workflow to do this?

1080i to 1080p Pro-Res
1080i to 1080p AIC
1080i to 1080p H.264

What is the best de-interlacing program to do this with?

AE CS3
JES De-interlacer
Compressor
Cinema Tools
Anything else...

My needs are to get a 1080p source and to edit in 23.976 native without a large quality loss.

Thanks,
-C

Kaku Ito · January 2nd, 2008, 07:34 PM

I just posted this since it was discussed in another thread:
http://www.onebikeguy.com/KakugyoBlo...imination.html

I usually shoot in the native mode (720/24pn), so I don't have to deinterlace to edit native (I don't see much advantage in shooting 1080 with HVX, IMHO), but in case of deinterlacing 1080/24p then, I would use "Compressor 2" as the result of discussion in the thread because the setting is automatic.

Barry Green · January 5th, 2008, 02:48 AM

NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER DE-INTERLACE!

Never. De-interlace = de-stroying your footage. Don't do it, that's an old technique we used to use to simulate a filmlook years and years ago but it's pretty much obsolete since the DVX came out back in 2002!

Use cinema tools to strip out the pulldown. Better yet, don't shoot 1080/24p mode, shoot 1080/24pA. You can strip out that pulldown upon ingesting into FCP.

Christopher Drews · January 5th, 2008, 03:28 AM

Barry, I bought and read your HVX book but I didn't see a chapter about this topic. When I shoot 1080i DVCPRO-HD @ 24pA, I don't see a way to remove the pulldown while bringing it in to FCP S2. What am I doing wrong? Great book BTW. :)

Kaku Ito · January 5th, 2008, 03:29 AM

I meant omit i-frames, sorry.
Barry, have you checked out the removing pulldown witH COMPRESSOR 2? I think as good and especially when you are treating captured footage via HDSDI that you won't know the pulldown cadence (like HV20 or using HDSDI route on HPX), compressor 2 is automatic and cinema tools is not.

Christopher Drews · January 5th, 2008, 03:46 AM

Actually, I just checked the "Log and Transfer" window in FCP. There was a preference pane that said "Remove Pulldown and Duplicate Frames". So I guess it does it automatically when you transfer the contents file.

Yet, when I open the file in Quicktime it still says DVCPRO-HD 1080i60 - then FPS says 23.98. Does this mean its 60i or 23.98. Also, how do you merge the interlaced frames to make it progressive.

Can't I get the QuickTime to say DVCPRO-HD 1080p23.98? Will this footage always be interlaced no matter what?

What workflow would you recommend if I shot a majority of footage in 24p (normal mode) and need to get it 23.98, without Cinema Tools (it refuses to work with the footage)?

Thanks,
-C

Kaku Ito · January 5th, 2008, 07:13 AM

codec is always based on 1080/60 and 720/60. If it says appropriate frame rate that you need, then it is fine.

Also, what ever you shoot with HVX or HPX with 24p would be actually 23.98.

Aslo, the i-frames that are removed, don't have to be process. The idea is to have only progressive frames, so as Barry explained deinterlace from interlaced frame would degrade the quality.

Barry Green · January 5th, 2008, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christopher Drews

There was a preference pane that said "Remove Pulldown and Duplicate Frames". So I guess it does it automatically when you transfer the contents file.

Yep.

Quote:

Yet, when I open the file in Quicktime it still says DVCPRO-HD 1080i60 - then FPS says 23.98. Does this mean its 60i or 23.98.

Don't sweat it. The codec is nominally an interlaced codec, but it's being used to compress progressive footage. It's doing exactly what you want.

Quote:

Also, how do you merge the interlaced frames to make it progressive.

You don't -- it's all done for you. The camera has segmented the footage into fields for recording, it's set flags to alert the NLE to treat the footage as progressive, and the NLE does it automatically. You're working with a true, legitimate progressive 23.976 sequence when you import it to FCP.

Quote:

Can't I get the QuickTime to say DVCPRO-HD 1080p23.98?

No, because there is only the DVCPRO-HD 1080/60i codec. It makes no difference though. You're getting what you want.

Quote:

Will this footage always be interlaced no matter what?

The footage isn't interlaced, it's progressive. The flags are set, and the system knows to treat it as progressive.

Quote:

What workflow would you recommend if I shot a majority of footage in 24p (normal mode) and need to get it 23.98, without Cinema Tools (it refuses to work with the footage)?

I don't know, I don't use the Mac, I thought Cinema Tools would do that for you. I know Premiere Pro CS3 does it just fine. Hopefully some Mac users will answer this one for you.

January 2nd, 2008, 04:43 PM	#1
Christopher Drews Major Player Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 628	DVCPRO HD 1080i 24/60 to 23.98 progressive? I am shooting on the HVX-200 and want to de-interlace the 24/60i to 23.976. I tried using JES de-interlacer but am having mediocre results. What is the best workflow to do this? 1080i to 1080p Pro-Res 1080i to 1080p AIC 1080i to 1080p H.264 What is the best de-interlacing program to do this with? AE CS3 JES De-interlacer Compressor Cinema Tools Anything else... My needs are to get a 1080p source and to edit in 23.976 native without a large quality loss. Thanks, -C

January 2nd, 2008, 07:34 PM	#2
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	I just posted this since it was discussed in another thread: http://www.onebikeguy.com/KakugyoBlo...imination.html I usually shoot in the native mode (720/24pn), so I don't have to deinterlace to edit native (I don't see much advantage in shooting 1080 with HVX, IMHO), but in case of deinterlacing 1080/24p then, I would use "Compressor 2" as the result of discussion in the thread because the setting is automatic.

January 5th, 2008, 02:48 AM	#3
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER DE-INTERLACE! Never. De-interlace = de-stroying your footage. Don't do it, that's an old technique we used to use to simulate a filmlook years and years ago but it's pretty much obsolete since the DVX came out back in 2002! Use cinema tools to strip out the pulldown. Better yet, don't shoot 1080/24p mode, shoot 1080/24pA. You can strip out that pulldown upon ingesting into FCP.

January 5th, 2008, 03:28 AM	#4
Christopher Drews Major Player Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 628	Barry, I bought and read your HVX book but I didn't see a chapter about this topic. When I shoot 1080i DVCPRO-HD @ 24pA, I don't see a way to remove the pulldown while bringing it in to FCP S2. What am I doing wrong? Great book BTW. :)

January 5th, 2008, 03:29 AM	#5
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	I meant omit i-frames, sorry. Barry, have you checked out the removing pulldown witH COMPRESSOR 2? I think as good and especially when you are treating captured footage via HDSDI that you won't know the pulldown cadence (like HV20 or using HDSDI route on HPX), compressor 2 is automatic and cinema tools is not.

January 5th, 2008, 03:46 AM	#6
Christopher Drews Major Player Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 628	Actually, I just checked the "Log and Transfer" window in FCP. There was a preference pane that said "Remove Pulldown and Duplicate Frames". So I guess it does it automatically when you transfer the contents file. Yet, when I open the file in Quicktime it still says DVCPRO-HD 1080i60 - then FPS says 23.98. Does this mean its 60i or 23.98. Also, how do you merge the interlaced frames to make it progressive. Can't I get the QuickTime to say DVCPRO-HD 1080p23.98? Will this footage always be interlaced no matter what? What workflow would you recommend if I shot a majority of footage in 24p (normal mode) and need to get it 23.98, without Cinema Tools (it refuses to work with the footage)? Thanks, -C

January 5th, 2008, 07:13 AM	#7
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	codec is always based on 1080/60 and 720/60. If it says appropriate frame rate that you need, then it is fine. Also, what ever you shoot with HVX or HPX with 24p would be actually 23.98. Aslo, the i-frames that are removed, don't have to be process. The idea is to have only progressive frames, so as Barry explained deinterlace from interlaced frame would degrade the quality.