Xmas wish list for the next HVX at DVinfo.net

Mark Donnell · December 18th, 2007, 03:19 PM

I really like this camera, but in the next generation I'm hoping for : 1) Better light sensitivity. Shooting indoors in ambient light is not easy. 2) HD-SDI output. Faster computers will soon make it possible for many people to ingest and edit this data stream. 3) Perhaps a 16x lens. The current lens is marginal for some work, and 16x seems to be more of a standard size. Other thoughts ?

Tim Polster · December 18th, 2007, 04:58 PM

Well the low light capabilities and having at least a full 720p raster set of chips are the things stopping me from considering Panasonic for my move from DV to HD.

The uprezzed chips might be fine now, but in a few years when every camera has huge chip resolution, the current chips are going to look rather pale.

Kaku Ito · December 18th, 2007, 07:37 PM

AS good LCD resolution as EX1. Oh boy it was so much easier to focus on EX1 than HVX200.

Dan Brockett · December 18th, 2007, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaku Ito

AS good LCD resolution as EX1. Oh boy it was so much easier to focus on EX1 than HVX200.

Hi Kaku:

Would you say it has high enough resolution to focus with a Brevis or Letus and really shallow depth of field?

I have seen some pretty impressive footage from the EX-1.

Dan

Mark Donnell · December 19th, 2007, 12:18 AM

Reading a few other posts leads me to add another suggestion - a HDMI output connector. Also, I agree that it is time to delete the tape unit. This camera is not impressive at DV recording. Those interested in DV should buy a different camcorder. In place of the tape unit, a 64 GB solid state flash hard drive would be nice. The newest ones can record a 100 Mbs data stream without problems.

Edit note - Ethan Cooper wrote that the 720p from the HVX, downconverted to DV is of very high quality, so maybe my comment about DV above is not quite correct. I would still get rid of the tape unit in exchange for a solid state hard drive.

Martin Iverson · December 19th, 2007, 01:13 AM

The DV quality is excellent. I wouldn't have bought this camera without the tape drive. I'm in a small market and almost all of my business is still DV. Very few people have the ability to play an HD disk and no one around here wants to pay for it. Besides, you can't take something away on a Christmas list. That's againt the Christmas list rules.

I would love to have 16x lens and a better on board mic wouldn't hurt since I can't use 4 external mics.

Speaking of which, howabout 4 external mic inputs? That would be great.

Oh yeah, and a smoother zoom. Make it smooth and buttery like my DVC30's zoom.

How about making the remote control jacks easier to access.

TingSern Wong · December 19th, 2007, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Iverson

The DV quality is excellent. I wouldn't have bought this camera without the tape drive. I'm in a small market and almost all of my business is still DV. Very few people have the ability to play an HD disk and no one around here wants to pay for it. Besides, you can't take something away on a Christmas list. That's againt the Christmas list rules.

How about making the remote control jacks easier to access.

Martin, You can always record in HD - then downsample it to DV for your clients. The quality of DV this way is way much better than filming it in DV in the first place. The colours are so much better (even if it is DV).

Remote control jacks - I second that. The present place is terrible ... and you run the risk of accidentally ejecting the SD card.

David Saraceno · December 19th, 2007, 12:46 PM

Get rid of and reposition the cheap, flimsy 4 pin firewire connector.

Any camera manufacturer that uses this plug instead of a locking, well positioned 6-pin connector without power should be taken behind the shed.

Martin Iverson · December 20th, 2007, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TingSern Wong

Martin, You can always record in HD - then downsample it to DV for your clients.

I shoot a lot of long format footage. One take is typically 45-55 min long. There really isn't a way for me to economically shoot HD. The market I'm in wont bare the cost of increasing my infrastructure to shoot in HD. Until 32Gb cards cost $400-600, which I believe will happen at about the time my market is demanding HD, I still need the tape drive.

I think there are a lot of people in small markets like me out there that have bought the HVX because it does have the tape drive. I'll bet Panny knows if this is true. Any thoughts on this Jan?

TingSern Wong · December 20th, 2007, 02:02 AM

Cost of infrastructure is only one time. If your clients see the colour differences between pure SD recorded on tape and HD downconverted to SD - I think most people will prefer the later.

Also, you save lots of time - no need to run capture. Take the 32GB card out from the HVX, pop into your computer, edit right away. Plus it conveniently put one take into one file. You don't have hunt for scene differences like if you were to capture from tape. And in most projects I know of, the time saved will pay for the cost of infrastructure over and over again.

32GB cards are now about $1600. It is a one time cost only. I will never go back to tapes again after experiencing how much time P2 cards save me.

Sergio Perez · December 20th, 2007, 10:17 AM

You can record dv to the P2 card...

Anyway, here's my wish list- also posted in another forum :)

1- 1440x1080 pixel shifted 1/2 ccd's. Why? Picture would be sharp enough with pixel shift, while obviously gaining on the low light front.

2- DVCPRO HD/ AVC INTRA 100 and AVCHD Recording to p2. With the new HD-SDI recorders coming to market that can make any camera with HD-SDI out capable of recording 160mbits per second Mpeg2 Intra 4:2:2 to Ordinary CF cards, Panasonic should be offering their best codec in all their professional applications. This would not be a move that would challenge their higher end cameras, but would be a move that would help create a workflow between panasonic Professional broadcast products.

3 AVCHD for HDV like capabilities/recording times, and Proxies recording.

4- No need for tape drive. The SD card slot should be able to record high quality AVCHD (25mbits per second)

3- HD-SDI with embedded audio out

4- Capability to use the 4 channels of audio of the DVCPRO HD codec.

5- Better LCD with flip capabilities.

6- Keep the fixed lens design, and weight of the HVX (for low budget support gear to work!)

7- 1080pn recording to P2

8- Variable frame rates in 1080p, and 120fps on 720p mode

9- Keep cinegamma!

10- Pal/NTSC switchable- this makes no sense anymore!

I believe that's all for now...

David Saraceno · December 20th, 2007, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sergio Perez

4- No need for tape drive. The SD card slot should be able to record high quality AVCHD (25mbits per second).

AVCHD in LONG GOP 4:2:0.

I believe you want AVC Intra.

Sergio Perez · December 20th, 2007, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Saraceno

AVCHD in LONG GOP 4:2:0.

I believe you want AVC Intra.

Did you read my post correctly? I wrote that I wanted avc intra 100 for P2. SDHC can't support the bandwidth. I am suggesting making the SD card slot able to record AVCHD, wich would make for cheap HD with good quality for those jobs you need long recording times and no so much demand in therms of quality.

Also, add DV recording to the SDHC card. This would substitute the DV tape and make the camera less heavy- the additional weight could go for a better lens or the 1/2ccd's+bigger lens.

Martin Iverson · December 20th, 2007, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TingSern Wong

Cost of infrastructure is only one time.

Seriously - that would be the time that I can't afford. Since it is my small business saving time doesn't save me money. It only saves me time. If I don't have the money for the 32GB card I can't save the time. Besides it's not onetime as archiving is an ongoing cost.

Humorsly - there is never a one cost for infrastructure. There is always a better, bigger, smoother, clearer, cleaner, 2nd of, 3rd of, or smaller option that you've just have that ends up sucking more money out of you. It really never stops. If it does you fall behind the compitition. Video is worse than owning a boat.

Jon Fairhurst · December 20th, 2007, 11:54 PM

Martin,

Maybe the solution would be to remove the tape drive AND include a more efficient SD coder. For instance, broadcast SD is typically 5mbps MPEG2. By going with, say 5mbps h.264 SD, the quality would probably be adequate, and you could store 40 minutes on a 4GB card. With the price of memory falling, it would be a nice way to remove the tape drive size, cost, complexity and power drain for the HD shooters who don't need it.

December 18th, 2007, 03:19 PM	#1
Mark Donnell Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Silver City, NM Posts: 385	Xmas wish list for the next HVX I really like this camera, but in the next generation I'm hoping for : 1) Better light sensitivity. Shooting indoors in ambient light is not easy. 2) HD-SDI output. Faster computers will soon make it possible for many people to ingest and edit this data stream. 3) Perhaps a 16x lens. The current lens is marginal for some work, and 16x seems to be more of a standard size. Other thoughts ?

December 20th, 2007, 10:17 AM	#11
Sergio Perez Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Macau Posts: 331	You can record dv to the P2 card... Anyway, here's my wish list- also posted in another forum :) 1- 1440x1080 pixel shifted 1/2 ccd's. Why? Picture would be sharp enough with pixel shift, while obviously gaining on the low light front. 2- DVCPRO HD/ AVC INTRA 100 and AVCHD Recording to p2. With the new HD-SDI recorders coming to market that can make any camera with HD-SDI out capable of recording 160mbits per second Mpeg2 Intra 4:2:2 to Ordinary CF cards, Panasonic should be offering their best codec in all their professional applications. This would not be a move that would challenge their higher end cameras, but would be a move that would help create a workflow between panasonic Professional broadcast products. 3 AVCHD for HDV like capabilities/recording times, and Proxies recording. 4- No need for tape drive. The SD card slot should be able to record high quality AVCHD (25mbits per second) 3- HD-SDI with embedded audio out 4- Capability to use the 4 channels of audio of the DVCPRO HD codec. 5- Better LCD with flip capabilities. 6- Keep the fixed lens design, and weight of the HVX (for low budget support gear to work!) 7- 1080pn recording to P2 8- Variable frame rates in 1080p, and 120fps on 720p mode 9- Keep cinegamma! 10- Pal/NTSC switchable- this makes no sense anymore! I believe that's all for now... __________________ If you don't believe in your film, no one else will.

December 20th, 2007, 11:54 PM	#15
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	Martin, Maybe the solution would be to remove the tape drive AND include a more efficient SD coder. For instance, broadcast SD is typically 5mbps MPEG2. By going with, say 5mbps h.264 SD, the quality would probably be adequate, and you could store 40 minutes on a 4GB card. With the price of memory falling, it would be a nice way to remove the tape drive size, cost, complexity and power drain for the HD shooters who don't need it. __________________ Jon Fairhurst

December 18th, 2007, 04:58 PM	#2
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	Well the low light capabilities and having at least a full 720p raster set of chips are the things stopping me from considering Panasonic for my move from DV to HD. The uprezzed chips might be fine now, but in a few years when every camera has huge chip resolution, the current chips are going to look rather pale.

December 18th, 2007, 07:37 PM	#3
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	AS good LCD resolution as EX1. Oh boy it was so much easier to focus on EX1 than HVX200.

December 19th, 2007, 12:18 AM	#5
Mark Donnell Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Silver City, NM Posts: 385	Reading a few other posts leads me to add another suggestion - a HDMI output connector. Also, I agree that it is time to delete the tape unit. This camera is not impressive at DV recording. Those interested in DV should buy a different camcorder. In place of the tape unit, a 64 GB solid state flash hard drive would be nice. The newest ones can record a 100 Mbs data stream without problems. Edit note - Ethan Cooper wrote that the 720p from the HVX, downconverted to DV is of very high quality, so maybe my comment about DV above is not quite correct. I would still get rid of the tape unit in exchange for a solid state hard drive.

December 19th, 2007, 01:13 AM	#6
Martin Iverson Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Anacortes, WA Posts: 78	The DV quality is excellent. I wouldn't have bought this camera without the tape drive. I'm in a small market and almost all of my business is still DV. Very few people have the ability to play an HD disk and no one around here wants to pay for it. Besides, you can't take something away on a Christmas list. That's againt the Christmas list rules. I would love to have 16x lens and a better on board mic wouldn't hurt since I can't use 4 external mics. Speaking of which, howabout 4 external mic inputs? That would be great. Oh yeah, and a smoother zoom. Make it smooth and buttery like my DVC30's zoom. How about making the remote control jacks easier to access.

December 19th, 2007, 12:46 PM	#8
David Saraceno Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Inland Northwest Posts: 490	Get rid of and reposition the cheap, flimsy 4 pin firewire connector. Any camera manufacturer that uses this plug instead of a locking, well positioned 6-pin connector without power should be taken behind the shed.

December 20th, 2007, 02:02 AM	#10
TingSern Wong Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Singapore, Rep of SINGAPORE Posts: 749	Cost of infrastructure is only one time. If your clients see the colour differences between pure SD recorded on tape and HD downconverted to SD - I think most people will prefer the later. Also, you save lots of time - no need to run capture. Take the 32GB card out from the HVX, pop into your computer, edit right away. Plus it conveniently put one take into one file. You don't have hunt for scene differences like if you were to capture from tape. And in most projects I know of, the time saved will pay for the cost of infrastructure over and over again. 32GB cards are now about $1600. It is a one time cost only. I will never go back to tapes again after experiencing how much time P2 cards save me.