Panasonic please respond... at DVinfo.net

Bill Edmunds · November 16th, 2007, 11:16 AM

... to the gauntlet that has been thrown down by Sony. They've announced three affordable pro level cameras that use solid state memory, one of them with 1/2" chips. As far as I can tell the only thing Panasonic has been doing lately is concentrating on the low level prosumer stuff. Where's the HVX200a, with improved noise levels and other upgrades? Where's your answer to Sony? Please, give me a reason to stick with P2, even if it's just "we've got some great news that we can't tell you about right now." Please? Because right now I'm close to jumping ship.

David Saraceno · November 16th, 2007, 11:19 AM

The rolling shutter and long GOP on the Sony requires an "answer" from Panasonic?

I agree that there are issues with noise, but what do you want other than that?

1/2 chips with CCDs. Panasonic sells that already.

Matt Gottshalk · November 16th, 2007, 11:37 AM

I agree, if you are going to go ahead and "jump ship" based on that alone feel free.

In my mind Panasonic has almost every market covered with a fine product.

Bob Woodhead · November 16th, 2007, 12:11 PM

You consider the $48,000 (body-only) HPX3000 "low level prosumer stuff"....? And who said we all want 1/2" chips, or fixed-lens cameras? Many of us didn't get into P2 until Panasonic released 2/3" P2 cameras w/ B4 mount lenses... skipped right past the 200. That said, would I buy a PMW-EX1 instead of a HVX200 if I was looking for that type of camera? Quite possibly. The pro video world doesn't end at fixed-lens cams, though....

Bill Edmunds · November 16th, 2007, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Woodhead

You consider the $48,000 (body-only) HPX3000 "low level prosumer stuff"....? And who said we all want 1/2" chips, or fixed-lens cameras? Many of us didn't get into P2 until Panasonic released 2/3" P2 cameras w/ B4 mount lenses... skipped right past the 200.

Thats great for you if you can afford something in that league. I can't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Woodhead

That said, would I buy a PMW-EX1 instead of a HVX200 if I was looking for that type of camera? Quite possibly. The pro video world doesn't end at fixed-lens cams, though....

Two of the new Sony cams have interchangeable lenses, including a handheld one. They also record to both solid state and tape simultaneously, meaning you've got in instant tape backup and archive.

Bill Edmunds · November 16th, 2007, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Saraceno

The rolling shutter and long GOP on the Sony requires an "answer" from Panasonic?

Sony has *supposedly* dealt with the rolling shtter issue. The long GOP is a non-issue for me when recording to solid state media. Just becaue a camera shoots in long GOP doesn't mean you have to edit in that form. You can certainly convert it to something else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Saraceno

I agree that there are issues with noise, but what do you want other than that?

The noise is the (major) issue for me. I have the unfortunate situation of not being able to use supplemental lighting for many shoots.

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Saraceno

1/2 chips with CCDs. Panasonic sells that already.

Not at the $7000 or less prce tag they don't. I'm specifically talking about cams in the league of the HVX200.

Bill Edmunds · November 16th, 2007, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Gottshalk

I agree, if you are going to go ahead and "jump ship" based on that alone feel free.

That "alone" is a major issue for a lot of people. Excessive image noise is a big deal, to me at least. If a camera isn't producing the kind of image I expect, it's kind of a deal breaker.

Ethan Cooper · November 16th, 2007, 01:09 PM

Calm down fellas, the Panny response is gonna come soon enough. How does he know this you might ask? I don't. I'm not an insider. I do however have some common sense. Let's look at the facts:
1) the HVX is several years old already and you know a replacement is coming soon.
2) Panasonic never really released as many different types of cameras as Sony did/does. When Sony was releasing the VX2000, PD150, VX2100, PD170, TRV900, TRV950, Z1U, FX1, A1U, FX7, V1U, Panasonic had the DVX100a, DVX100b, and HXV200.
3) Panasonic did very well with the HVX200 no matter what cameras were being released around it. why spend a lot of money to change things, or add things when your product is still selling as well as anything out there?

Just be a little patient unless you must have a new camera today for some reason. If Panny doesn't have HXV successor out by the time you need something, then reluctantly buy the newest Sony that can tide you over till they do. It's not like having to shoot a few jobs on an EX1 will be tantamount to pulling out your mom's old VHS camcorder from the early 80's.

Tim Polster · November 16th, 2007, 06:22 PM

I feel Bill's pain.

I want to buy into a family of cameras so they will all intercut.

If you pick a Sony for a few jobs and also have a Panasonic, they never look the same with mulit-camera work.

I am stuck right now because the Sony EX looks like a good value, but the larger XDCAMs don't really shoot 720p60, which I want.

The HPX-500 looks like a good value, but the HVX-200 seems a bit challenged in the light/noise area plus I just have a problem "upgrading" to a 1/3" chip camera.

In the DV days, the cameras seemed to be more affordable and you could think of buying two or three of the same camera for continuity. I am speaking of 1/2" chip cameras.

With HD pricing, I am forced to buy one large camera and suppliment with the best small camera(s) to be able to afford to upgrade.

So I too am wanting Panasonic to answer the Sony EX to give me a stronger reason to stay with Panasonic for my HD upgrade.

David Saraceno · November 16th, 2007, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Edmunds

Sony has *supposedly* dealt with the rolling shtter issue. The long GOP is a non-issue for me when recording to solid state media. Just becaue a camera shoots in long GOP doesn't mean you have to edit in that form. You can certainly convert it to something else.

Even when you transcode, you are transcoding Long GOP with all the attendant artifacting. And that takes time.

That is an issue for me. We had two Sony 3-chip cams, and the artifacting and Long GOP were issues.

TingSern Wong · November 17th, 2007, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Edmunds

The noise is the (major) issue for me. I have the unfortunate situation of not being able to use supplemental lighting for many shoots.

I am not dishing out the HVX202 just because its noise level is "excessive" in low light. I just remove it - "wipe it out" - if you like. I am also in the same boat as you. Filming inside rainforests, in the mountains under heavy cloud cover, inside monasteries with just the lighting from the ceilings, etc. Run Adobe After Effects with the Neat Video plugin. It does miracles to noisy videos - try it ... the results are simply spectacular. A US$99 software solution versus US$5000 hardware "upgrade".

Bill Edmunds · November 17th, 2007, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TingSern Wong

I am not dishing out the HVX202 just because its noise level is "excessive" in low light. I just remove it - "wipe it out" - if you like. I am also in the same boat as you. Filming inside rainforests, in the mountains under heavy cloud cover, inside monasteries with just the lighting from the ceilings, etc. Run Adobe After Effects with the Neat Video plugin. It does miracles to noisy videos - try it ... the results are simply spectacular. A US$99 software solution versus US$5000 h/w.

Can you post some comparison images illustrating what you have done? I never trust images on the manufacturer's web site.

TingSern Wong · November 17th, 2007, 07:59 AM

Can this website accept a 5MB video? If not, please provide me an email id where I can upload my video to you - and you see for yourself. Please ensure that email id can accept an attachment of at least 5MB.

Bill Edmunds · November 17th, 2007, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TingSern Wong

Can this website accept a 5MB video? If not, please provide me an email id where I can upload my video to you - and you see for yourself. Please ensure that email id can accept an attachment of at least 5MB.

Great! My email is excaliburvideo@adelphia.net. I can accept up to 8 or 9 mb at a time. Even posting some still images would be fine.

TingSern Wong · November 17th, 2007, 08:06 AM

Okay ... please be patient ... will get it out to you - and you see. Please feedback to this website after you have taken a look at it. Still images don't do justice to the Neat Video plugin. You have to see the video itself.

The first 4 seconds is the original HVX202 (same camera as your HVX200 - except this is the PAL version) clip. The next 4 seconds is what comes out from After Effect with the Neat Video processing. I have lightened the video so that you can see the noise in the background. Compressed by Sorenson Squeeze.

November 16th, 2007, 11:16 AM	#1
Bill Edmunds Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Conway, NH Posts: 574	Panasonic please respond... ... to the gauntlet that has been thrown down by Sony. They've announced three affordable pro level cameras that use solid state memory, one of them with 1/2" chips. As far as I can tell the only thing Panasonic has been doing lately is concentrating on the low level prosumer stuff. Where's the HVX200a, with improved noise levels and other upgrades? Where's your answer to Sony? Please, give me a reason to stick with P2, even if it's just "we've got some great news that we can't tell you about right now." Please? Because right now I'm close to jumping ship.

November 16th, 2007, 01:09 PM	#8
Ethan Cooper Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Houma, La. Posts: 1,400 Images: 5	Calm down fellas, the Panny response is gonna come soon enough. How does he know this you might ask? I don't. I'm not an insider. I do however have some common sense. Let's look at the facts: 1) the HVX is several years old already and you know a replacement is coming soon. 2) Panasonic never really released as many different types of cameras as Sony did/does. When Sony was releasing the VX2000, PD150, VX2100, PD170, TRV900, TRV950, Z1U, FX1, A1U, FX7, V1U, Panasonic had the DVX100a, DVX100b, and HXV200. 3) Panasonic did very well with the HVX200 no matter what cameras were being released around it. why spend a lot of money to change things, or add things when your product is still selling as well as anything out there? Just be a little patient unless you must have a new camera today for some reason. If Panny doesn't have HXV successor out by the time you need something, then reluctantly buy the newest Sony that can tide you over till they do. It's not like having to shoot a few jobs on an EX1 will be tantamount to pulling out your mom's old VHS camcorder from the early 80's. __________________ ∅ -Ethan Cooper

November 16th, 2007, 11:19 AM	#2
David Saraceno Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Inland Northwest Posts: 490	The rolling shutter and long GOP on the Sony requires an "answer" from Panasonic? I agree that there are issues with noise, but what do you want other than that? 1/2 chips with CCDs. Panasonic sells that already.

November 16th, 2007, 11:37 AM	#3
Matt Gottshalk Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Potomac Falls, VA Posts: 215	I agree, if you are going to go ahead and "jump ship" based on that alone feel free. In my mind Panasonic has almost every market covered with a fine product.

November 16th, 2007, 12:11 PM	#4
Bob Woodhead Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 59	You consider the $48,000 (body-only) HPX3000 "low level prosumer stuff"....? And who said we all want 1/2" chips, or fixed-lens cameras? Many of us didn't get into P2 until Panasonic released 2/3" P2 cameras w/ B4 mount lenses... skipped right past the 200. That said, would I buy a PMW-EX1 instead of a HVX200 if I was looking for that type of camera? Quite possibly. The pro video world doesn't end at fixed-lens cams, though....

November 16th, 2007, 06:22 PM	#9
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	I feel Bill's pain. I want to buy into a family of cameras so they will all intercut. If you pick a Sony for a few jobs and also have a Panasonic, they never look the same with mulit-camera work. I am stuck right now because the Sony EX looks like a good value, but the larger XDCAMs don't really shoot 720p60, which I want. The HPX-500 looks like a good value, but the HVX-200 seems a bit challenged in the light/noise area plus I just have a problem "upgrading" to a 1/3" chip camera. In the DV days, the cameras seemed to be more affordable and you could think of buying two or three of the same camera for continuity. I am speaking of 1/2" chip cameras. With HD pricing, I am forced to buy one large camera and suppliment with the best small camera(s) to be able to afford to upgrade. So I too am wanting Panasonic to answer the Sony EX to give me a stronger reason to stay with Panasonic for my HD upgrade.

November 17th, 2007, 07:59 AM	#13
TingSern Wong Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Singapore, Rep of SINGAPORE Posts: 749	Can this website accept a 5MB video? If not, please provide me an email id where I can upload my video to you - and you see for yourself. Please ensure that email id can accept an attachment of at least 5MB.

November 17th, 2007, 08:06 AM	#15
TingSern Wong Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Singapore, Rep of SINGAPORE Posts: 749	Okay ... please be patient ... will get it out to you - and you see. Please feedback to this website after you have taken a look at it. Still images don't do justice to the Neat Video plugin. You have to see the video itself. The first 4 seconds is the original HVX202 (same camera as your HVX200 - except this is the PAL version) clip. The next 4 seconds is what comes out from After Effect with the Neat Video processing. I have lightened the video so that you can see the noise in the background. Compressed by Sorenson Squeeze.