HVX200a at InterBEE Tokyo?

Kaku Ito · November 25th, 2007, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Edmunds

Not familiar with it. I wonder if Panasonic is confining P2 to higher end stuff?

It looks like Panasonic is seeing AVCHD as the comparable market as HDV? Maybe there's a plan to have higher transferring rate in the AVCHD format?

Kaku Ito · November 26th, 2007, 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Edmunds

Not familiar with it. I wonder if Panasonic is confining P2 to higher end stuff?

It's the same card they use for the consumer AVCHD cams and for saving settings of HPX and HVX.

Barry Green · November 26th, 2007, 04:34 PM

P2 is for the broadcast lineup. AVC-HD is an inherently long-GOP design, and Panasonic doesn't think that's appropriate for a broadcaster to use, so AVC-HD is aimed at the consumer and "professional" lineup. It's taken me a bit to figure this out, but Panasonic apparently ranks them in terms of:

Lowest: Consumer
Mid-range: Professional
Top-end: Broadcast

You'll see AVC-HD coming to the Professional line; it's already started (sort of) with the little HSC1U. But the mockup they showed at Interbee looked exactly like a DVX100 (albeit one that'd been beaten with an ugly stick) so I expect that it'll be the first "real" AVC-HD camera that takes advantage of what the format is capable of.

Near as I can tell, AVC-HD is meant to take on the long-gop HDV and XDCAM-HD codecs; DVCPRO-HD and AVC-Intra @ 50mbps are meant to go against HDCAM, and AVC-Intra @ 100mbps is aimed at HDCAM-SR. (note: there will always be overlap here 'n' there; the HVX200 isn't quite an HDCAM competitor, but the format is, so the lines aren't quite as clearly drawn as I've laid 'em out here.)

Dan Brockett · November 26th, 2007, 07:23 PM

Wow, is that camera ugly? It looks like mutant love child of a DVX and HVX that met at a concert, got drunk, then split up.

Dan

Kaku Ito · November 27th, 2007, 10:26 PM

AVCHD handheld mockup would be great for me to provide class solution for schools. I hope they would include 24p choice. Barry, do you know of any company has included 24p in a AVCHD cam or is 24p included in the AVCHD specification?

Chris Hurd · November 28th, 2007, 09:59 AM

Hi Kaku, the Canon consumer AVCHD camcorders HG10 and HR10 both record 24p in a 60i stream.

Kaku Ito · November 28th, 2007, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

Hi Kaku, the Canon consumer AVCHD camcorders HG10 and HR10 both record 24p in a 60i stream.

Right, how can I forget that. Maybe I was thinking only for memory recording based. So, it is done in AVCHD by Canon, Panasonic should support 24p in AVCHD, too.

I've been thinking what is the affordable camera that I can recommend to schools for students to learn basics about broadcast and cinema making (basically for high schools). I guess hard disk based won't be that bad for that purpose. Kids should learn how important to make backups and through the process they will learn the whole digital production culture.

Kaku Ito · November 28th, 2007, 10:38 AM

I should have looked at this.
http://www.avchd-info.org/format/index.html

It states 1080/24p and 720/24p, even 720/60p are included in the AVCHD format.

Paulo Teixeira · November 28th, 2007, 12:27 PM

It’s refreshing seeing that it has a focusing ring as apposed to their shoulder mounted camera. I really don’t think the final design will look like that unless Panasonic is trying to release it for around 2,500 to 3,000 dollar because it does look that cheep even though it should have all of the top recording modes of the AVCHD specification.

Here’s my prediction for an HVX200 successor. No tape drive, imagers and pixel count will be greater, HDMI port and last but not least, add more P2 card slots. Just imagine having 4. If Panasonic keeps the tape drive then I’m afraid you won’t see changes that drastic. Still, I’m almost certain they’ll get rid of it.

Barry Green · November 28th, 2007, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaku Ito

I should have looked at this.
http://www.avchd-info.org/format/index.html

It states 1080/24p and 720/24p, even 720/60p are included in the AVCHD format.

Yep, that's where I would have pointed you to. The 1080/24p and 720/24p should be implemented with no pulldown. Canon added pulldown to their 1080, but I don't really understand why -- the format has provision for native pulldown-free 24p already.

But nobody has implemented that yet; for some unfathomable reason Panasonic's own AVC-HD camcorders don't support 24p (even though it is arguably the inclusion of 24p that led Panasonic to its largest market acceptance). So I'm sure hoping they get the message and start implementing proper 24p support in their AVC-HD lineup!

Kaku Ito · November 28th, 2007, 08:19 PM

Barry, that is great that no pull-down can be achieved in this format.
I guess Canon didn't include the indexed pull-down to differentiate from their prosumer and most of the ivis users won't be able to playback native 24p video on their consumer monitors?

I certainly want native 24p to recommend to schools for those shoulder mount or handheld AVCHD cams.

Kaku Ito · December 1st, 2007, 04:53 AM

This post should be in the AVCHD thread, but since we were discussing about the mockup model of prosumer AVCHD cams at InterBEE, I thought I should continue here.

From an interview on VideoAlpha magaizne with a B&I group manager, Mr. Mochizuki, he explained how they wanted to expand the lineup of AVCHD prosumer camcorders starting with HSC1U.

These are the points he clearly mentioned:

The targets that Panasonic wants to sell AVCHD prosumer models to, are schools, corporations and medical markets.

AVCHD prosumer market is to keep the compatibilities with consumer market.

He mentioned at that point, about the AG-DVC60 look like AVCHD prosumer camcorder, which is AG-HMC75.

He also casually mentioned about wanting to include 24p support for prosumer AVCHD models, too.

November 26th, 2007, 07:23 PM	#49
Dan Brockett Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 2,109	Reply Wow, is that camera ugly? It looks like mutant love child of a DVX and HVX that met at a concert, got drunk, then split up. Dan

November 28th, 2007, 09:59 AM	#51
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Hi Kaku, the Canon consumer AVCHD camcorders HG10 and HR10 both record 24p in a 60i stream. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

November 28th, 2007, 12:27 PM	#54
Paulo Teixeira Trustee Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 1,773	It’s refreshing seeing that it has a focusing ring as apposed to their shoulder mounted camera. I really don’t think the final design will look like that unless Panasonic is trying to release it for around 2,500 to 3,000 dollar because it does look that cheep even though it should have all of the top recording modes of the AVCHD specification. Here’s my prediction for an HVX200 successor. No tape drive, imagers and pixel count will be greater, HDMI port and last but not least, add more P2 card slots. Just imagine having 4. If Panasonic keeps the tape drive then I’m afraid you won’t see changes that drastic. Still, I’m almost certain they’ll get rid of it. __________________ https://www.youtube.com/user/PhotoVi...esEtc/featured https://www.pond5.com/artist/paulot

December 1st, 2007, 04:53 AM	#57
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	Panasonic's commitment for prosumer AVCHD cam This post should be in the AVCHD thread, but since we were discussing about the mockup model of prosumer AVCHD cams at InterBEE, I thought I should continue here. From an interview on VideoAlpha magaizne with a B&I group manager, Mr. Mochizuki, he explained how they wanted to expand the lineup of AVCHD prosumer camcorders starting with HSC1U. These are the points he clearly mentioned: The targets that Panasonic wants to sell AVCHD prosumer models to, are schools, corporations and medical markets. AVCHD prosumer market is to keep the compatibilities with consumer market. He mentioned at that point, about the AG-DVC60 look like AVCHD prosumer camcorder, which is AG-HMC75. He also casually mentioned about wanting to include 24p support for prosumer AVCHD models, too.

November 26th, 2007, 04:34 PM	#48
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	P2 is for the broadcast lineup. AVC-HD is an inherently long-GOP design, and Panasonic doesn't think that's appropriate for a broadcaster to use, so AVC-HD is aimed at the consumer and "professional" lineup. It's taken me a bit to figure this out, but Panasonic apparently ranks them in terms of: Lowest: Consumer Mid-range: Professional Top-end: Broadcast You'll see AVC-HD coming to the Professional line; it's already started (sort of) with the little HSC1U. But the mockup they showed at Interbee looked exactly like a DVX100 (albeit one that'd been beaten with an ugly stick) so I expect that it'll be the first "real" AVC-HD camera that takes advantage of what the format is capable of. Near as I can tell, AVC-HD is meant to take on the long-gop HDV and XDCAM-HD codecs; DVCPRO-HD and AVC-Intra @ 50mbps are meant to go against HDCAM, and AVC-Intra @ 100mbps is aimed at HDCAM-SR. (note: there will always be overlap here 'n' there; the HVX200 isn't quite an HDCAM competitor, but the format is, so the lines aren't quite as clearly drawn as I've laid 'em out here.)

November 27th, 2007, 10:26 PM	#50
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	AVCHD handheld mockup would be great for me to provide class solution for schools. I hope they would include 24p choice. Barry, do you know of any company has included 24p in a AVCHD cam or is 24p included in the AVCHD specification?

November 28th, 2007, 10:38 AM	#53
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	I should have looked at this. http://www.avchd-info.org/format/index.html It states 1080/24p and 720/24p, even 720/60p are included in the AVCHD format.

November 28th, 2007, 08:19 PM	#56
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	Barry, that is great that no pull-down can be achieved in this format. I guess Canon didn't include the indexed pull-down to differentiate from their prosumer and most of the ivis users won't be able to playback native 24p video on their consumer monitors? I certainly want native 24p to recommend to schools for those shoulder mount or handheld AVCHD cams.