What camera would match with the HVX200? at DVinfo.net

Bill Edmunds · September 1st, 2007, 08:39 AM

I'd love to buy another HVX200, but I simply can't afford the extra P2 cards (thanks Panasonic). Would the Sony V1U match well with it? It can shoot both interlaced and progressive video like the HVX200, so I thought it might match well. But I've never seen the image quality of the V1u. Or perhaps the Canon XH-A1?

David Saraceno · September 1st, 2007, 09:44 AM

I keep hoping for a decent AVCHD cam that shoots progressive and will transfer to Apple's ProRes format.

It makes the workflow easier.

Robert Lane · September 1st, 2007, 11:09 AM

Bill,

The two biggest issues with trying to match the HVX with any of the other handheld-HD cams is the color space and noise. The HVX is the noisiest of the bunch but it also has the best color output, every other handheld-HD cam is shooting HDV which is 4:2:0 color; the HVX is shooting 4:2:2. That might not seem like a big deal but in post it's near-impossible to get a good match from two different color spaces.

Depending on your final output it may not make a big difference if for example if you're going straight to DVD or the web. However if you're going to do a film-out or any HD-spec delivery it will make a huge difference.

Why not just rent a 2nd HVX? Cheaper than purchasing a second full-rig and most rentals come with (2) 8gb cards, in fact in my area most of the rental HVX's now come with (2) 16GB cards.

Bill Edmunds · September 1st, 2007, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Lane

Bill,

The two biggest issues with trying to match the HVX with any of the other handheld-HD cams is the color space and noise. The HVX is the noisiest of the bunch but it also has the best color output, every other handheld-HD cam is shooting HDV which is 4:2:0 color; the HVX is shooting 4:2:2. That might not seem like a big deal but in post it's near-impossible to get a good match from two different color spaces.

Depending on your final output it may not make a big difference if for example if you're going straight to DVD or the web. However if you're going to do a film-out or any HD-spec delivery it will make a huge difference.

My final product will eventually be Blu ray and HD DVD. What is their color space?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Lane

Why not just rent a 2nd HVX? Cheaper than purchasing a second full-rig and most rentals come with (2) 8gb cards, in fact in my area most of the rental HVX's now come with (2) 16GB cards.

This isn't for one project, but for several years. Most shoots I do involve two cameras. Right now I shoot with the HVX200 and JVC HD100. They are quite good together, but I"m starting to think I need another cam that shoots interlaced video. The JVC doesn't.

Are you saying the HVX200 is even noisier than the Sony V1u? Isn't the V1u supposed to be very noisy because of the CMOS imagers?

Robert Lane · September 2nd, 2007, 08:49 AM

Bill,

Do a web-search for the "Texas Shootout", where Chris (owner of the forum) and many other pro shooters did a head-to-head comparison between all the handheld HD cams; once you read that article and see the screen-grabs yourself all your questions will be answered about which cameras will match up to each other well. However, for any HD-spec delivery I'd suggest staying within the same type of color space, which means you'll either need to stick with HDV 4:2:0 or, the DVCPRO 4:2:2. Since the HVX is the only tapeless format camera of the bunch it means you'll also need to choose between workflows (tape/tape-less) and again, which one will depend on your own production preferences.

Steve Rosen · September 2nd, 2007, 09:10 AM

Bill: Also, it's important to know what you mean when you say "matched"... In a traditional 2-camera shoot where the footage will need to be seamlessly intercut (say, a dialog between two actors across a table), nothing is going to match perfectly unless you de-tune the HVX's color to match the other camera, whatever it is (I'd recommend the Canon A1 - affordable and a great picture)... Even then, it won't be perfect... To be honest, you might even have trouble getting two HVXs to match perfectly w/o some correction in post...

But I'm currently shooting a feature length documentary with an HPX500, an HVX and a Canon XL H1 with the 6x WA lens - all at 24p ("f" in the case of the H1)... Strictly speaking, none of the footage "matches", not even close - but it will appear in the same film because it is used in totally different types of scenes...

Kevin Shaw · September 2nd, 2007, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Lane

Since the HVX is the only tapeless format camera of the bunch it means you'll also need to choose between workflows (tape/tape-less)...

Not necessarily: you can have a tapeless workflow with any DV or HDV camera using a hard-drive based recorder like those from Firestore. Since many HVX owners use these already for recording DVCProHD, it shouldn't be a big workflow adjustment to do the same with other formats.

As far as color space issues are concerned, 'color depth' may be a better way of expressing that. Any type of HD footage can be converted to the same color space and codec in editing, so it's more a question of whether the footage has the same look between shots. As someone else noted, it's hard enough matching two identical cameras without trying to match two cameras shooting different formats...but to some extent it can be done.

Kaku Ito · September 2nd, 2007, 10:35 PM

I just helped HD drama for broadcast and since HVX200 wasn't sufficient for some dark situation, they had to use Z1J. Mostly the drama was shot with HPX555 (500), and I converted the 60i footage shot with Z1J to 30P for them, and the editor mixed them with other DVCPRO HD 30P footage and the director and producer didn't even noticed any problems.

September 1st, 2007, 08:39 AM	#1
Bill Edmunds Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Conway, NH Posts: 574	What camera would match with the HVX200? I'd love to buy another HVX200, but I simply can't afford the extra P2 cards (thanks Panasonic). Would the Sony V1U match well with it? It can shoot both interlaced and progressive video like the HVX200, so I thought it might match well. But I've never seen the image quality of the V1u. Or perhaps the Canon XH-A1?

September 1st, 2007, 09:44 AM	#2
David Saraceno Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Inland Northwest Posts: 490	I keep hoping for a decent AVCHD cam that shoots progressive and will transfer to Apple's ProRes format. It makes the workflow easier.

September 1st, 2007, 11:09 AM	#3
Robert Lane Go Go Godzilla Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ USA Posts: 2,823 Images: 15	Bill, The two biggest issues with trying to match the HVX with any of the other handheld-HD cams is the color space and noise. The HVX is the noisiest of the bunch but it also has the best color output, every other handheld-HD cam is shooting HDV which is 4:2:0 color; the HVX is shooting 4:2:2. That might not seem like a big deal but in post it's near-impossible to get a good match from two different color spaces. Depending on your final output it may not make a big difference if for example if you're going straight to DVD or the web. However if you're going to do a film-out or any HD-spec delivery it will make a huge difference. Why not just rent a 2nd HVX? Cheaper than purchasing a second full-rig and most rentals come with (2) 8gb cards, in fact in my area most of the rental HVX's now come with (2) 16GB cards.

September 2nd, 2007, 08:49 AM	#5
Robert Lane Go Go Godzilla Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ USA Posts: 2,823 Images: 15	Bill, Do a web-search for the "Texas Shootout", where Chris (owner of the forum) and many other pro shooters did a head-to-head comparison between all the handheld HD cams; once you read that article and see the screen-grabs yourself all your questions will be answered about which cameras will match up to each other well. However, for any HD-spec delivery I'd suggest staying within the same type of color space, which means you'll either need to stick with HDV 4:2:0 or, the DVCPRO 4:2:2. Since the HVX is the only tapeless format camera of the bunch it means you'll also need to choose between workflows (tape/tape-less) and again, which one will depend on your own production preferences.

September 2nd, 2007, 09:10 AM	#6
Steve Rosen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Monterey, California Posts: 895	Bill: Also, it's important to know what you mean when you say "matched"... In a traditional 2-camera shoot where the footage will need to be seamlessly intercut (say, a dialog between two actors across a table), nothing is going to match perfectly unless you de-tune the HVX's color to match the other camera, whatever it is (I'd recommend the Canon A1 - affordable and a great picture)... Even then, it won't be perfect... To be honest, you might even have trouble getting two HVXs to match perfectly w/o some correction in post... But I'm currently shooting a feature length documentary with an HPX500, an HVX and a Canon XL H1 with the 6x WA lens - all at 24p ("f" in the case of the H1)... Strictly speaking, none of the footage "matches", not even close - but it will appear in the same film because it is used in totally different types of scenes...

September 2nd, 2007, 10:35 PM	#8
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	I just helped HD drama for broadcast and since HVX200 wasn't sufficient for some dark situation, they had to use Z1J. Mostly the drama was shot with HPX555 (500), and I converted the 60i footage shot with Z1J to 30P for them, and the editor mixed them with other DVCPRO HD 30P footage and the director and producer didn't even noticed any problems.