A complicated question on Lumix GH5, to get good shots in Africa

Doug Jensen · April 17th, 2020, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adriano Moroni

Hey, I know there are 14 stops of dynamic range when shooting in V-Log with S1H, do you lnow how many stops there are with GH5 and V-Log? How many stops without V-Log? I'm curious about it.

Sorry, I have no further information about the GH5.

Pete Cofrancesco · April 17th, 2020, 08:30 AM

You should hit up Youtube there are many videos reviews of vlog. I’ve seen a lot of negative things said about it. The problem with all cameras they all have their strengths and weaknesses. Other cameras that are going to have better color are going to be more expensive or have other compromises.

Doug Jensen · April 17th, 2020, 08:39 AM

Keep in mind that V-LOG will perform differently on different Panasonic cameras, just as S-LOG will perform differently on different Sony cameras. So take any negative comments with a grain of salt. You need to look at who is saying it and what camera they are using. I can't say anything about V-LOG on the GH5, but I can assure you it looks beautiful on the S1H. Probably because the S1H shares DNA with the Varicam LT and EVA-1 rather than the lower-end mirrorless cameras.

Adriano Moroni · April 17th, 2020, 10:18 AM

I can only say this: everyone advises me to use V-Log with the GH5 but then when I ask if they are using it, everyone answer with no. Boh! I'd like to buy this V-Log but first I have to listen to someone who uses it with the GH5.

Pete Cofrancesco · April 17th, 2020, 11:41 AM

It’s also hard to see the issues since youtube is highly compressed but you should get the gist. Seem most useful for retaining highlights but as you can see it’s value and results can vary widely for each person.

Doug Jensen · April 17th, 2020, 12:56 PM

Geez, I really don't want to waste my energy on this stuff, but dumb videos like "Why you shouldn't buy V-LOG". produced by morons who clearly don't have a clue cannot go unchallenged. Pete, why would you even re-post such crap?

First of all, he is stupidly trying to grade V-LOG in Premiere and then announcing V-LOG is no good. A little like putting gasoline in diesel engine and then declaring the gasoline is no good. Premiere is a great editing program . . . with some crude color grading tacked on. If you are going to shoot in V-LOG then you must grade in Resolve or some other professional-caliber grading program. He has not done that, even though he admits what I just said is true towards the end of the video. So he's shooting down V-LOG when he knows he's not even using the right software. Premiere is simply not setup for serious grading, especially if you are then going to announce your finding to the whole world as if you had credibility.

Second, he offers no information about his workflow in Premiere, the base LUT he is using as a starting point, how he is manipulating the footage, and nothing at all about how he is even exposing V-LOG and white balancing onboard the camera. All of that is critical information if we are to place any value on his opinion that V-LOG is "really, really bad". So even within Premiere someone else might get better results than he is getting. We don't know because he doesn't provide any information.

Third, he says . . " It doesn’t happen as badly in 10-bit footage but the 8-bit footage is really bad."
Wow!! Once again revealing himself to be a moron. Nobody should be shooting any kind of LOG in 8-bit. So he's really shooting down V-LOG based on using it with 8-bit footage and then doing a half-assed grade in Premiere. Nobody who knows anything about grading LOG uses it with 8-bit.

Third, he says "If you are an Adobe user, you cannot edit on the 10-bit footage at all. It just doesn’t play, you get all this weird stuff sometimes. It wil have like a split screen of the same clip twice. It just looks really weird. It doesn’t play properly at all. Which is really Adobe’s fault."
This patently false. I edit 10-bit footage everyday on my MacBook Pro with V-LOG, non-V-LOG, S-LOG, Hypergamma, Sony 16-bit RAW, etc. with no issues with playback. He obviously has some kind of problem with his own computer or setup. Most likely he is not using an HDD or SSD that is capable of playing 4K footage smoothly. I would wager he's using stupidly usingthe internal HDD or SSD on his Mac for storing media files.

Fourth, 10-bit footage and 8-bit footage should have exactly the same payback performance when all other things are equal. He he probably using a higher bit-rate codec when shooting with a 10-bit codec, which may account for the poor playback. In other words, Bitrate is actually the root of his trouble and not 8-bit- vs.10-bit color. But either way, he shouldn't have trouble with either one if he had a proper hardware setup. How is that the fault of the GH5?

Fifth, he says "I'm just not liking Adobe. Tons of crashes and all that."
That's funny, because I'm running the latest version of Premiere and it is rock solid. I cannot even remember the last time it crashed. And even if Premiere did have stability problems, how is that the fault of the GH5? He needs to do a serious overhaul of his hardware setup in post before casting stones at the GH5.

Would he still shoot down V-LOG if he graded 10-bit footage with the correct LUT and other workflow steps in Resolve? I'm betting that his opinion would be 180 degrees different if he knew what he was doing. The blind leading the blind.

I have no idea if V-LOG looks good on the GH5 or not because I haven't used it myself, nor have I spoken to anyone I trust who has. But one thing is for sure, I certainly am not going to give any credibility whatsoever to this moronic review from someone who gets so many things completely wrong.

Pete Cofrancesco · April 17th, 2020, 01:57 PM

Glad you pushed back I didn’t post it to misinform. I don’t have any specific knowledge working with log or vlog with the Gh5 but yeah you do have to be careful with youtube. I think the first video is a bit more realistic what you can expect, meaning log isn’t a magic wand takes proper process and knowledge. More to the point without seeing the op footage it’s hard to really know whether something is wrong and whether vlog would actually fix it.

Adriano Moroni · April 18th, 2020, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Jensen

Just one more thought. I didn't mean to derail this thread and imply that you need an S1H to shoot great video. The GH5 is a perfectly capable video camera and i've seen some great video from it at a school where I teach workshops in the summers. It doesn't meet my needs, but that doesn't mean it isn't a good camera. It is more important for you to master the GH5 (that you already own) by learning to shoot with full manual exposure, manual white balance, etc. than it is for you to invest in a new camera. A better camera will not automatically provide better results. Mastery of the camera you already own and improving your skills at operating it is much more important than getting a new camera. And cheaper!

Out of curiosity: S1H captures more information at either end of the luminance range even without V-Log than GH5? If it so, it is easy grading in post. Right?

Doug Jensen · April 18th, 2020, 01:56 PM

Like I said earlier, I have never used a GH5 so I cannot comment on how it's performance compares to the S1H.

Adriano Moroni · April 21st, 2020, 01:53 AM

Hello, could someone tell me if GH5 as well as recording in rec. 709 can record in rec. 2020. I ask this because I'd like to edit and export rec. 2020 which is more modern and gives more colors. Even my TV allows it.

In the various menu options of the GH5 I can't see this possibility: does it exist?
Thank you.

Keith Rollinson · April 21st, 2020, 07:13 AM

As answered on another forum for you, the closest you'll get on the GH5 is to record in HLG.
Here's a link to the owners manual - hope this helps: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/lit_fil...2855/KBID/3801

Adriano Moroni · April 21st, 2020, 07:39 AM

I'm sorry but that link doesn't work.

Keith Rollinson · April 21st, 2020, 08:17 AM

Try this: https://tinyurl.com/yax9ybq4
Or search, via Google, for "GH5 owners manual" - lots out there.

Adriano Moroni · April 21st, 2020, 01:16 PM

I thank you for the link, but the manual makes me nervous and I can't read it.. ;) id you read about "Luminance Level". If I rec in 25p 10bit, what luminance level do I have to choose? I'm noticing that it is explained very well in the manual. ;)

Do you know if GH5 shoots in Rec. 709 only?

Ronald Jackson · April 22nd, 2020, 02:04 AM

This filmed in Africa, via a GH5 (and a Lumix 100-400). Kruger Park, South Africa a couple of years ago.

Straight off the SD card and I bet there are those out there who could tweak a few improvements "in post".

Ron

ps don't watch as I usually do via Apple Safari as it won't play 4K YouTube. Watch via Google Chrome.

April 17th, 2020, 08:30 AM	#17
Pete Cofrancesco Inner Circle Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 3,005	Re: A complicated question on Lumix GH5, to get good shots in Africa You should hit up Youtube there are many videos reviews of vlog. I’ve seen a lot of negative things said about it. The problem with all cameras they all have their strengths and weaknesses. Other cameras that are going to have better color are going to be more expensive or have other compromises.

April 17th, 2020, 08:39 AM	#18
Doug Jensen Vortex Media Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,450	Re: A complicated question on Lumix GH5, to get good shots in Africa Keep in mind that V-LOG will perform differently on different Panasonic cameras, just as S-LOG will perform differently on different Sony cameras. So take any negative comments with a grain of salt. You need to look at who is saying it and what camera they are using. I can't say anything about V-LOG on the GH5, but I can assure you it looks beautiful on the S1H. Probably because the S1H shares DNA with the Varicam LT and EVA-1 rather than the lower-end mirrorless cameras. __________________ Vortex Media http://www.vortexmedia.com/ Sony FS7, F55, and XDCAM training videos, field guides, and other production tools

April 17th, 2020, 10:18 AM	#19
Adriano Moroni Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Rome Italy Posts: 680	Re: A complicated question on Lumix GH5, to get good shots in Africa I can only say this: everyone advises me to use V-Log with the GH5 but then when I ask if they are using it, everyone answer with no. Boh! I'd like to buy this V-Log but first I have to listen to someone who uses it with the GH5. __________________ A lonesome traveler looking for lost tribes around the world: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdv...DrZCaaw/videos

April 17th, 2020, 11:41 AM	#20
Pete Cofrancesco Inner Circle Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 3,005	Re: A complicated question on Lumix GH5, to get good shots in Africa YouTube YouTube It’s also hard to see the issues since youtube is highly compressed but you should get the gist. Seem most useful for retaining highlights but as you can see it’s value and results can vary widely for each person.

April 17th, 2020, 12:56 PM	#21
Doug Jensen Vortex Media Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,450	Re: A complicated question on Lumix GH5, to get good shots in Africa Geez, I really don't want to waste my energy on this stuff, but dumb videos like "Why you shouldn't buy V-LOG". produced by morons who clearly don't have a clue cannot go unchallenged. Pete, why would you even re-post such crap? First of all, he is stupidly trying to grade V-LOG in Premiere and then announcing V-LOG is no good. A little like putting gasoline in diesel engine and then declaring the gasoline is no good. Premiere is a great editing program . . . with some crude color grading tacked on. If you are going to shoot in V-LOG then you must grade in Resolve or some other professional-caliber grading program. He has not done that, even though he admits what I just said is true towards the end of the video. So he's shooting down V-LOG when he knows he's not even using the right software. Premiere is simply not setup for serious grading, especially if you are then going to announce your finding to the whole world as if you had credibility. Second, he offers no information about his workflow in Premiere, the base LUT he is using as a starting point, how he is manipulating the footage, and nothing at all about how he is even exposing V-LOG and white balancing onboard the camera. All of that is critical information if we are to place any value on his opinion that V-LOG is "really, really bad". So even within Premiere someone else might get better results than he is getting. We don't know because he doesn't provide any information. Third, he says . . " It doesn’t happen as badly in 10-bit footage but the 8-bit footage is really bad." Wow!! Once again revealing himself to be a moron. Nobody should be shooting any kind of LOG in 8-bit. So he's really shooting down V-LOG based on using it with 8-bit footage and then doing a half-assed grade in Premiere. Nobody who knows anything about grading LOG uses it with 8-bit. Third, he says "If you are an Adobe user, you cannot edit on the 10-bit footage at all. It just doesn’t play, you get all this weird stuff sometimes. It wil have like a split screen of the same clip twice. It just looks really weird. It doesn’t play properly at all. Which is really Adobe’s fault." This patently false. I edit 10-bit footage everyday on my MacBook Pro with V-LOG, non-V-LOG, S-LOG, Hypergamma, Sony 16-bit RAW, etc. with no issues with playback. He obviously has some kind of problem with his own computer or setup. Most likely he is not using an HDD or SSD that is capable of playing 4K footage smoothly. I would wager he's using stupidly usingthe internal HDD or SSD on his Mac for storing media files. Fourth, 10-bit footage and 8-bit footage should have exactly the same payback performance when all other things are equal. He he probably using a higher bit-rate codec when shooting with a 10-bit codec, which may account for the poor playback. In other words, Bitrate is actually the root of his trouble and not 8-bit- vs.10-bit color. But either way, he shouldn't have trouble with either one if he had a proper hardware setup. How is that the fault of the GH5? Fifth, he says "I'm just not liking Adobe. Tons of crashes and all that." That's funny, because I'm running the latest version of Premiere and it is rock solid. I cannot even remember the last time it crashed. And even if Premiere did have stability problems, how is that the fault of the GH5? He needs to do a serious overhaul of his hardware setup in post before casting stones at the GH5. Would he still shoot down V-LOG if he graded 10-bit footage with the correct LUT and other workflow steps in Resolve? I'm betting that his opinion would be 180 degrees different if he knew what he was doing. The blind leading the blind. I have no idea if V-LOG looks good on the GH5 or not because I haven't used it myself, nor have I spoken to anyone I trust who has. But one thing is for sure, I certainly am not going to give any credibility whatsoever to this moronic review from someone who gets so many things completely wrong. __________________ Vortex Media http://www.vortexmedia.com/ Sony FS7, F55, and XDCAM training videos, field guides, and other production tools

April 17th, 2020, 01:57 PM	#22
Pete Cofrancesco Inner Circle Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 3,005	Re: A complicated question on Lumix GH5, to get good shots in Africa Glad you pushed back I didn’t post it to misinform. I don’t have any specific knowledge working with log or vlog with the Gh5 but yeah you do have to be careful with youtube. I think the first video is a bit more realistic what you can expect, meaning log isn’t a magic wand takes proper process and knowledge. More to the point without seeing the op footage it’s hard to really know whether something is wrong and whether vlog would actually fix it.

April 18th, 2020, 01:56 PM	#24
Doug Jensen Vortex Media Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,450	Re: A complicated question on Lumix GH5, to get good shots in Africa Like I said earlier, I have never used a GH5 so I cannot comment on how it's performance compares to the S1H. __________________ Vortex Media http://www.vortexmedia.com/ Sony FS7, F55, and XDCAM training videos, field guides, and other production tools

April 21st, 2020, 01:53 AM	#25
Adriano Moroni Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Rome Italy Posts: 680	Re: A complicated question on Lumix GH5, to get good shots in Africa Hello, could someone tell me if GH5 as well as recording in rec. 709 can record in rec. 2020. I ask this because I'd like to edit and export rec. 2020 which is more modern and gives more colors. Even my TV allows it. In the various menu options of the GH5 I can't see this possibility: does it exist? Thank you. __________________ A lonesome traveler looking for lost tribes around the world: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdv...DrZCaaw/videos

April 21st, 2020, 07:13 AM	#26
Keith Rollinson Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Greenfield, MA usa Posts: 167	Re: A complicated question on Lumix GH5, to get good shots in Africa As answered on another forum for you, the closest you'll get on the GH5 is to record in HLG. Here's a link to the owners manual - hope this helps: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/lit_fil...2855/KBID/3801

April 21st, 2020, 07:39 AM	#27
Adriano Moroni Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Rome Italy Posts: 680	Re: A complicated question on Lumix GH5, to get good shots in Africa I'm sorry but that link doesn't work. __________________ A lonesome traveler looking for lost tribes around the world: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdv...DrZCaaw/videos

April 21st, 2020, 08:17 AM	#28
Keith Rollinson Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Greenfield, MA usa Posts: 167	Re: A complicated question on Lumix GH5, to get good shots in Africa Try this: https://tinyurl.com/yax9ybq4 Or search, via Google, for "GH5 owners manual" - lots out there.

April 21st, 2020, 01:16 PM	#29
Adriano Moroni Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Rome Italy Posts: 680	Re: A complicated question on Lumix GH5, to get good shots in Africa I thank you for the link, but the manual makes me nervous and I can't read it.. ;) id you read about "Luminance Level". If I rec in 25p 10bit, what luminance level do I have to choose? I'm noticing that it is explained very well in the manual. ;) Do you know if GH5 shoots in Rec. 709 only? __________________ A lonesome traveler looking for lost tribes around the world: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdv...DrZCaaw/videos

April 22nd, 2020, 02:04 AM	#30
Ronald Jackson Major Player Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Southport, United Kingdom Posts: 723	Re: A complicated question on Lumix GH5, to get good shots in Africa This filmed in Africa, via a GH5 (and a Lumix 100-400). Kruger Park, South Africa a couple of years ago. Straight off the SD card and I bet there are those out there who could tweak a few improvements "in post". YouTube (Short URL) Ron ps don't watch as I usually do via Apple Safari as it won't play 4K YouTube. Watch via Google Chrome.