New Panasonic GH5S introduced

Cliff Totten · January 11th, 2018, 10:32 PM

Well? I just canceled my GH5-S pre order. I got super excited and did an impulse buy once B&H listed it.

If the dynamic range is no better than my current GH5 and if advanced noise reduction is a big part of this cameras low light "magic". I'll just keep my GH5 with IBIS and 6k readout and my A7S-II and noise cancel in post if I ever need to. I would argue that noise reduction in post is more surgical and accurate anyway.

I will be interested in a DVX200 at NAB this year if it uses this sensor.

My GH5-S bubble has been deflated. ;-)

Steve Burkett · January 13th, 2018, 12:07 AM

Noise reduction is a pain to apply and slows rendering. There's still noticeable improvement. Enough to make the GH5s a worthy camera to sit next to my GH5. Still I get to test it out next week, so hopefully can decide for myself rather than rely on others tests. Its always useful to keep expectations realistic. :-)

Jim Nogueira · January 13th, 2018, 08:48 AM

Steve, please report to us here after you test out the GH5S next week. I, for one, will be interested in hearing your real world results. Doesn't need to be accompanied by a fancy video, graphs, stills and all that. Just your general impression of the camera and whether or not the better low-light (which is really the big determining factor) justifies purchasing the camera. I have a GH5, DVX200 and JVC LS300, and will be very interested in your results. Thanks.

Jim Nogueira · January 13th, 2018, 09:04 AM

Interesting video interview with Panasonic's Manager of Retail Sales. He mentions that the GH5S has just shy of 14 stops of DR, and is two stops better than the GH5, So maybe the 13.5 figure is accurate, at least for video.

Noa Put · January 13th, 2018, 09:24 AM

It was also panasonic representatives who said the gh5 had a much improved autofocus and we all know how that turned out. I"ll believe it when I see someone perform a test, what I have seen so far for video at least there is no difference, even heard "reviewers" say they don't say a difference either between the gh5s and gh5.

Jim Nogueira · January 13th, 2018, 09:55 AM

No question that it's always best to take what the reviews say with a grain of salt, get your hands on one if you can, and perform your own real world tests. It's also worth noting that some of the "reviewers" have their own agenda, and may be looking to show the camera in a good or bad light. It's already been mentioned in several places that for stills the GH5 and GH5S are the same 12 stops. Supposedly, the difference is on the video side.

Craig Seeman · January 13th, 2018, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noa Put

It was also panasonic representatives who said the gh5 had a much improved autofocus and we all know how that turned out. I"ll believe it when I see someone perform a test, what I have seen so far for video at least there is no difference, even heard "reviewers" say they don't say a difference either between the gh5s and gh5.

This turned out well. No it's not Sony but it's definitely improved at least in this scenario. Some tests with prerelease firmware had issues but it looks to be improved.

Cliff Totten · January 13th, 2018, 12:55 PM

Matt is a very sharp guy and I have talked to him many times at NAB.

Hmmm....I don't know why he is pushing the "14 stops" thing. So far, there isn't one single video that shows that the GH5-S has even 1/2 stop more than the current GH5.

"If" the GH5-S is using the STARVIS IMX294 (or variant ordered for this camera) than we know it has been measured at 13.5 in astronomy cameras right now.

I think the answer boils down to what dynamic range that VLog-L can support.

It seems like Matt is really sticking his neck out there on this 14stop claim. We are going to get the true answers more and more as this GH5-S hits the streets soon. Maybe he has firmware that nobody else has?

I'm guessing that Matt is going to regret saying this 14stop claim....but who knows?

CT

Craig Seeman · January 13th, 2018, 01:05 PM

He's not the only one stating nearly 14 stops though.
I don't know if there's a correlation but the Photo by Richard did autofocus tests a few days preceding this which was on firmware 0.2 and the GH5s didn't fare very well.

Perhaps the firmware release version is a factor and it may well be why we hadn't seen any real dynamic range tests. Those stating 14 stops hadn't really done the kind of testing to verify that. Perhaps not out of haste or negligence but because they had (under NDA) known that their preproduction models wouldn't show it.

In any case 14 stops have been repeated a number of times by people who had preproduction models so I don't think they are casual incautious reviewers.

Noa Put · January 13th, 2018, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Seeman

This turned out well.

I was actually referring to the gh5 and it's autofocus is just too unreliable, when the gh5 was about to be released some Pansonic representatives said the autofocus was very accurate, that's why I don't believe any statements coming from them anymore. I seen a few comparison videos between the gh5 and 5s and didn't see any improvement so far in dynamic range.

Cliff Totten · January 13th, 2018, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Seeman

He's not the only one stating nearly 14 stops though.
I don't know if there's a correlation but the Photo by Richard did autofocus tests a few days preceding this which was on firmware 0.2 and the GH5s didn't fare very well.

Perhaps the firmware release version is a factor and it may well be why we hadn't seen any real dynamic range tests. Those stating 14 stops hadn't really done the kind of testing to verify that. Perhaps not out of haste or negligence but because they had (under NDA) known that their preproduction models wouldn't show it.

In any case 14 stops have been repeated a number of times by people who had preproduction models so I don't think they are casual incautious reviewers.

Well?....for me, I REALLY want to believe with all my heart that the sensor will do 14 stops AND its got a brand new VLog-L that can actually hold those 14 stops

Somehow, I doubt that Panasonic even "wants" this camera to have that much dynamic range. The GH5-S noise reduction is already cleaner than its more expensive EVA-1 cousin. If it matches the EVA-1 in dynamic range too? That might be a bit too scary for Panasonic Pro group to accept.

The truth is out there. We will know in a couple more weeks.

CT.

Steve Burkett · January 19th, 2018, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Nogueira

Steve, please report to us here after you test out the GH5S next week. I, for one, will be interested in hearing your real world results. Doesn't need to be accompanied by a fancy video, graphs, stills and all that. Just your general impression of the camera and whether or not the better low-light (which is really the big determining factor) justifies purchasing the camera. I have a GH5, DVX200 and JVC LS300, and will be very interested in your results. Thanks.

In the end it was more of a talk than a chance to play. There were a few GH5s to handle, but shared amongst a large group of attendees. The talk was quite basic, more catering to the low knowledge of video many there had on the subject. However the speakers enthusiasm for Micro 4/3s and the GH5s was infectious and the image displayed on a fancy 4K screen impressive despite footage some being in HD. The slowmo to 200fps looked great, that on 240fps rubbish and not useable in my opinion.

As for DR, I'd wager there is little improvement and what there is can be found at higher ISO, where the GH5 might lose out a bit. Low light looked good, but at my distance from the screen, hard to pixel peep.

I did film a bit with 1 camera, but just a shot of the lecture area with guests milling about. Nothing that is conclusive about real world use of the camera. Still as I planned to buy another GH5 anyway, I've decided to take the plunge and order the GH5s. Once I have a chance to really play with it, I think I'd be able to provide more thoughts on how it measures up. I need a B camera to replace my G80, something that works mostly on a tripod, handles low light so I can get a good dof on wide angle and which runs continuously, occasionally unattended. The GH5s seems therefore ideal.

Edit: Apparently I'm due to get it next Tuesday. Just in time for 2 Weddings I have Thursday and Saturday.

Steve Burkett · January 19th, 2018, 09:00 AM

One other useless bit of detail I got from the seminar yesterday was that one of the attendees in the morning session referred to the Focus joystick on the rear of the GH5 as 'The Nipple'. An image in my head I am alas stuck with now everytime I'm twiddling with it. :)

Cliff Totten · January 19th, 2018, 09:25 AM

I just told my wife that I'm on the internet discussung "joysticks" and "nipples" and she just gave me a dirty look.

Jack Zhang · January 20th, 2018, 12:19 PM

So they went the Sony route from the EX1 to the EX1R and eventually to the PMW-200. They just did tons of processing to get the image to look good.

I'm willing to turn down that noise reduction till it's acceptable enough to retain just enough sharpness. I'm used to tuning the crispening setting on Sony picture profiles so it's nothing new to me. It's still much better than a 1'' sensor in the UX180, which suffers from dark noise.

January 11th, 2018, 10:32 PM	#31
Cliff Totten Trustee Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Florida Posts: 1,197	Re: New Panasonic GH5S introduced Well? I just canceled my GH5-S pre order. I got super excited and did an impulse buy once B&H listed it. If the dynamic range is no better than my current GH5 and if advanced noise reduction is a big part of this cameras low light "magic". I'll just keep my GH5 with IBIS and 6k readout and my A7S-II and noise cancel in post if I ever need to. I would argue that noise reduction in post is more surgical and accurate anyway. I will be interested in a DVX200 at NAB this year if it uses this sensor. My GH5-S bubble has been deflated. ;-)

January 13th, 2018, 12:07 AM	#32
Steve Burkett Trustee Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Romsey, UK Posts: 1,261	Re: New Panasonic GH5S introduced Noise reduction is a pain to apply and slows rendering. There's still noticeable improvement. Enough to make the GH5s a worthy camera to sit next to my GH5. Still I get to test it out next week, so hopefully can decide for myself rather than rely on others tests. Its always useful to keep expectations realistic. :-)

January 13th, 2018, 08:48 AM	#33
Jim Nogueira Major Player Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Milford, MA Posts: 487	Re: New Panasonic GH5S introduced Steve, please report to us here after you test out the GH5S next week. I, for one, will be interested in hearing your real world results. Doesn't need to be accompanied by a fancy video, graphs, stills and all that. Just your general impression of the camera and whether or not the better low-light (which is really the big determining factor) justifies purchasing the camera. I have a GH5, DVX200 and JVC LS300, and will be very interested in your results. Thanks.

January 13th, 2018, 09:04 AM	#34
Jim Nogueira Major Player Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Milford, MA Posts: 487	Re: New Panasonic GH5S introduced Interesting video interview with Panasonic's Manager of Retail Sales. He mentions that the GH5S has just shy of 14 stops of DR, and is two stops better than the GH5, So maybe the 13.5 figure is accurate, at least for video. Panasonic GH5S Detailed with Matt Frazer - YouTube

January 13th, 2018, 09:24 AM	#35
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: New Panasonic GH5S introduced It was also panasonic representatives who said the gh5 had a much improved autofocus and we all know how that turned out. I"ll believe it when I see someone perform a test, what I have seen so far for video at least there is no difference, even heard "reviewers" say they don't say a difference either between the gh5s and gh5.

January 13th, 2018, 09:55 AM	#36
Jim Nogueira Major Player Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Milford, MA Posts: 487	Re: New Panasonic GH5S introduced No question that it's always best to take what the reviews say with a grain of salt, get your hands on one if you can, and perform your own real world tests. It's also worth noting that some of the "reviewers" have their own agenda, and may be looking to show the camera in a good or bad light. It's already been mentioned in several places that for stills the GH5 and GH5S are the same 12 stops. Supposedly, the difference is on the video side.

January 13th, 2018, 12:55 PM	#38
Cliff Totten Trustee Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Florida Posts: 1,197	Re: New Panasonic GH5S introduced Matt is a very sharp guy and I have talked to him many times at NAB. Hmmm....I don't know why he is pushing the "14 stops" thing. So far, there isn't one single video that shows that the GH5-S has even 1/2 stop more than the current GH5. "If" the GH5-S is using the STARVIS IMX294 (or variant ordered for this camera) than we know it has been measured at 13.5 in astronomy cameras right now. I think the answer boils down to what dynamic range that VLog-L can support. It seems like Matt is really sticking his neck out there on this 14stop claim. We are going to get the true answers more and more as this GH5-S hits the streets soon. Maybe he has firmware that nobody else has? I'm guessing that Matt is going to regret saying this 14stop claim....but who knows? CT

January 13th, 2018, 01:05 PM	#39
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Re: New Panasonic GH5S introduced He's not the only one stating nearly 14 stops though. I don't know if there's a correlation but the Photo by Richard did autofocus tests a few days preceding this which was on firmware 0.2 and the GH5s didn't fare very well. Perhaps the firmware release version is a factor and it may well be why we hadn't seen any real dynamic range tests. Those stating 14 stops hadn't really done the kind of testing to verify that. Perhaps not out of haste or negligence but because they had (under NDA) known that their preproduction models wouldn't show it. In any case 14 stops have been repeated a number of times by people who had preproduction models so I don't think they are casual incautious reviewers.

January 19th, 2018, 09:00 AM	#43
Steve Burkett Trustee Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Romsey, UK Posts: 1,261	Re: New Panasonic GH5S introduced One other useless bit of detail I got from the seminar yesterday was that one of the attendees in the morning session referred to the Focus joystick on the rear of the GH5 as 'The Nipple'. An image in my head I am alas stuck with now everytime I'm twiddling with it. :)

January 19th, 2018, 09:25 AM	#44
Cliff Totten Trustee Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Florida Posts: 1,197	Re: New Panasonic GH5S introduced I just told my wife that I'm on the internet discussung "joysticks" and "nipples" and she just gave me a dirty look.

January 20th, 2018, 12:19 PM	#45
Jack Zhang Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada Posts: 3,053	Re: New Panasonic GH5S introduced So they went the Sony route from the EX1 to the EX1R and eventually to the PMW-200. They just did tons of processing to get the image to look good. I'm willing to turn down that noise reduction till it's acceptable enough to retain just enough sharpness. I'm used to tuning the crispening setting on Sony picture profiles so it's nothing new to me. It's still much better than a 1'' sensor in the UX180, which suffers from dark noise.