New Panasonic GH5S introduced

Steve Burkett · January 9th, 2018, 09:41 AM

I'm attending an event next week on the Panasonic GH5s, which an opportunity to try it out. I'm using a G80 as my main secondary camera (mainly as it has a clip limit and needs more monitoring) . I was going to replace it with another GH5 and retire the G80, but may well get the GH5s instead.

Basically I need it to be the wide angle to another manned camera on close up. For that reason it needs to have a deeper depth of field for darker situations like a 1st Dance and I can see how the GH5s would clearly be of aid here. Being on a tripod I don't need IBIS from it, so its looking like a promising purchase.

Cliff Totten · January 9th, 2018, 04:01 PM

Has anybody seen any real dynamic range numbers yet?

All I have seen are people saying it appears to be the same exact dynamic range as the current GH5.

Anybody actually put their GH5-S demo on DR charts yet? If Its got the same 11 stops as the GH5, then Im canceling my pre order and sticking with my regular GH5.

Its odd. If this GH5 does use the Sony STARVIS IMX294 sensor, than we know that sensor has already been measured at 13.5 stops in astronomy cameras today.

Hmmm....I wonder if Panasonic chose not to allow it to have 13.5 to protect the EVA-1's 14stop advantage. If so, I dont blame Panasonic as the GH5-S is already cleaner than the EVA-1 in high ISO. (I dont think the EVA-1 uses a Sony sensor)

Hmmm....anybody know?

Craig Seeman · January 9th, 2018, 11:51 PM

One post release "review" mentions 14 stops but I haven't seen any real test to verify that.
I also so an interview with someone from Panasonic that said it may cannibalize some EVA sales but they felt Panasonic would still benefit overall (this was translated from answers that were in Japanese). It may have been on Cinema5D YouTube channel.

Craig Seeman · January 9th, 2018, 11:58 PM

While this is NOT the review I was referring to that mentions 14 stops, it is yet another review that mentions the same thing though.

https://www.mysterybox.us/blog/2018/...nic-gh5s-hdr10
"Overall, we are really impressed with the image quality of the GH5S, especially when mastering in HDR10. Our biggest goal when we started the project was to capitalize on the GH5S' Dual-ISO (400 & 2500) sensor, which delivers excellent low-light capabilities and nearly14-stops of dynamic range."

Other reviews mention 12 (not 11) stops though. We'll have to wait for some concrete tests.

Craig Seeman · January 10th, 2018, 08:41 AM

Mentions 14 stops, this is same mysterbox,

along with material they shot.

Dan Brockett · January 10th, 2018, 09:05 AM

I attended a private sneak preview for the GH5S in November with the Pansonic Brass and the project engineering team. All slides and statements mentioned "12 stops of DR", I think 14 stops is wishful thinking and folklore.

The new imager is impressive. We viewed side by side footage of the GH5S, GH5 and A7 RII shot around Osaka at night and what they are getting out of an M43 sensor is kind of amazing. Better colors, very low grain at ISO 3200 and 6400 (12,800 was even usable). The dual ISO is pretty good too. I came away impressed. They really fixed the lousy color science of the GH4 too. The footage from the Sony did not look good in comparison and the GH5S looked noticeably better than the GH5 footage under those conditions.

I wish they had made the move to phase detection AF, the AF on the prototypes we played with was meh, not very usable. I would mainly be interested in the GH5S as a gimbal and second angle camera but the lack of really great phase detection AF still makes it a probable no go for my needs.

I am waiting to receive a review unit from Panasonic, if they deliver one, I'll post my thoughts about it. I only got to play with the prototypes in a conference room for a few hours.

Craig Seeman · January 10th, 2018, 09:38 AM

14 stops mentioned here as well. Apparently an official Panasonic Youtube channel.

Matthew Capowski · January 10th, 2018, 09:07 PM

Nick Driftwood said no change to DR from the GH5.

Pete Cofrancesco · January 10th, 2018, 10:41 PM

DR isn’t going to change without a completely new generation of technology. I think people are hoping for some magic bullet where you just show up with a camera and film with existing light. there’s a lot behind the scenes work that goes into beautiful cinematic footage not just the camera.

Dan Brockett · January 11th, 2018, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Seeman

14 stops mentioned here as well. Apparently an official Panasonic Youtube channel.

Interesting, but makes no sense. The 12 stops came directly from mouth of the lead engineer who designed the camera, me and few other journalists there specifically grilled the team on DR and the reply was 12 stops. Perhaps they changed that spec from late November when I was shown working prototypes to the finished, shipping units, but if it's true, you'd think they would want to really push that in the press, right?

Craig Seeman · January 11th, 2018, 11:00 AM

The odd thing is there are a number of reviews (in addition to the one I linked to) which mention 14 stops and a number of others which stand firm with 12 stops. Those claiming 14 stops are getting that info from someplace and since those reviews are shooters doing real world tests I assume they're not simply misquoting an uninformed source.

At some point they'll have to be some definitive tests done with proper charts and lighting.

Gary Huff · January 11th, 2018, 12:08 PM

14 stops for Raw stills, 12 stops for Vlog L. Vlog L is only 12 stops.

Cliff Totten · January 11th, 2018, 02:12 PM

Im inclined to believe exactly this.

This IMX294 has been measured at 13.5 in an another (astronomy) camera. I'm expecting that Panasonic is chopping off those extra stops using the VLog-L limitation.

I'm guessing this is no accident or oversight on Panny's part. I suspect it's 100% intentional.

I'm betting when Panasonic bought the first STARVIS sensor evaluation coppies for their lab work, they looked at those sensor results and said "wow...holy crap" (in Japaneese) and imediately started wondering how dangerous this chip was to their EVA-1.

Its not a good thing for the GH5-S to match (or pass) the overall image quality of a much more expensive model. They cant let the EVA-1 survive on just superior, professional ergonomics alone.

Lol....;-)

Cliff Totten · January 11th, 2018, 06:51 PM

So it's time to bust the "GH5-S is a super low light beast" myth.....

For the past few days I have been looking at all this GH5-S footage and thinking "damn,...I feel like I'm seeing a TON of noise reduction on this GH5-S" This was especially true when watch people compare the GH5-S to the A7S-II, a sensor with pixel wells (photosites) that are TWICE the size (8+ microns) of the GH5-S

So DPReview has added the GH5-S to it's test database and you can now compare the two sensors for yourself.

Make sure you adjust both cameras for RAW sensor data readout. This will strip away the in camera noise reduction so you can REALLY see what is going on under the hood of both cameras.

We can all see now that the A7S-II smokes the GH5-S at every ISO/gain amount. Even at a low 200 ISO.

This tells us there is a HUGE amount of noise reduction going on in the GH5-S and it does suffer form a softer image over the A7S-II because the noise reduction is scrubbing so much noise out.

Make no mistake. The GH5-S is VERY respectable and very commendable. It DOES go toe to toe with the A6500 very well but no,...it does not "truely" touch the A7S-II. That was a very unrealistic dream we all had for a couple of days.

https://www.dpreview.com/news/233357...o-scene-posted

CT

Pete Cofrancesco · January 11th, 2018, 08:59 PM

I agree about the NR. The other thing I noticed and is pointed out in a review, at the lower ISOs in dim situations there isn’t any difference between the GH5 and the GH5s. For the extra expense and what you’re giving up doesn’t seem like fair trade.

January 9th, 2018, 09:41 AM	#16
Steve Burkett Trustee Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Romsey, UK Posts: 1,261	Re: New Panasonic GH5S introduced I'm attending an event next week on the Panasonic GH5s, which an opportunity to try it out. I'm using a G80 as my main secondary camera (mainly as it has a clip limit and needs more monitoring) . I was going to replace it with another GH5 and retire the G80, but may well get the GH5s instead. Basically I need it to be the wide angle to another manned camera on close up. For that reason it needs to have a deeper depth of field for darker situations like a 1st Dance and I can see how the GH5s would clearly be of aid here. Being on a tripod I don't need IBIS from it, so its looking like a promising purchase.

January 9th, 2018, 04:01 PM	#17
Cliff Totten Trustee Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Florida Posts: 1,197	Re: New Panasonic GH5S introduced Has anybody seen any real dynamic range numbers yet? All I have seen are people saying it appears to be the same exact dynamic range as the current GH5. Anybody actually put their GH5-S demo on DR charts yet? If Its got the same 11 stops as the GH5, then Im canceling my pre order and sticking with my regular GH5. Its odd. If this GH5 does use the Sony STARVIS IMX294 sensor, than we know that sensor has already been measured at 13.5 stops in astronomy cameras today. Hmmm....I wonder if Panasonic chose not to allow it to have 13.5 to protect the EVA-1's 14stop advantage. If so, I dont blame Panasonic as the GH5-S is already cleaner than the EVA-1 in high ISO. (I dont think the EVA-1 uses a Sony sensor) Hmmm....anybody know?

January 9th, 2018, 11:51 PM	#18
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Re: New Panasonic GH5S introduced One post release "review" mentions 14 stops but I haven't seen any real test to verify that. I also so an interview with someone from Panasonic that said it may cannibalize some EVA sales but they felt Panasonic would still benefit overall (this was translated from answers that were in Japanese). It may have been on Cinema5D YouTube channel.

January 9th, 2018, 11:58 PM	#19
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Re: New Panasonic GH5S introduced While this is NOT the review I was referring to that mentions 14 stops, it is yet another review that mentions the same thing though. https://www.mysterybox.us/blog/2018/...nic-gh5s-hdr10 "Overall, we are really impressed with the image quality of the GH5S, especially when mastering in HDR10. Our biggest goal when we started the project was to capitalize on the GH5S' Dual-ISO (400 & 2500) sensor, which delivers excellent low-light capabilities and nearly14-stops of dynamic range." Other reviews mention 12 (not 11) stops though. We'll have to wait for some concrete tests.

January 10th, 2018, 08:41 AM	#20
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Re: New Panasonic GH5S introduced Mentions 14 stops, this is same mysterbox, YouTube (Short URL) along with material they shot. LUMIX GH5s: Horizons - YouTube

January 10th, 2018, 09:05 AM	#21
Dan Brockett Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 2,109	Re: New Panasonic GH5S introduced I attended a private sneak preview for the GH5S in November with the Pansonic Brass and the project engineering team. All slides and statements mentioned "12 stops of DR", I think 14 stops is wishful thinking and folklore. The new imager is impressive. We viewed side by side footage of the GH5S, GH5 and A7 RII shot around Osaka at night and what they are getting out of an M43 sensor is kind of amazing. Better colors, very low grain at ISO 3200 and 6400 (12,800 was even usable). The dual ISO is pretty good too. I came away impressed. They really fixed the lousy color science of the GH4 too. The footage from the Sony did not look good in comparison and the GH5S looked noticeably better than the GH5 footage under those conditions. I wish they had made the move to phase detection AF, the AF on the prototypes we played with was meh, not very usable. I would mainly be interested in the GH5S as a gimbal and second angle camera but the lack of really great phase detection AF still makes it a probable no go for my needs. I am waiting to receive a review unit from Panasonic, if they deliver one, I'll post my thoughts about it. I only got to play with the prototypes in a conference room for a few hours.

January 10th, 2018, 09:38 AM	#22
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Re: New Panasonic GH5S introduced 14 stops mentioned here as well. Apparently an official Panasonic Youtube channel. YouTube (Short URL)

January 10th, 2018, 09:07 PM	#23
Matthew Capowski Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Posts: 43	Re: New Panasonic GH5S introduced Nick Driftwood said no change to DR from the GH5. __________________ http://www.davidbohmsociety.org

January 10th, 2018, 10:41 PM	#24
Pete Cofrancesco Inner Circle Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 3,005	Re: New Panasonic GH5S introduced DR isn’t going to change without a completely new generation of technology. I think people are hoping for some magic bullet where you just show up with a camera and film with existing light. there’s a lot behind the scenes work that goes into beautiful cinematic footage not just the camera.

January 11th, 2018, 11:00 AM	#26
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Re: New Panasonic GH5S introduced The odd thing is there are a number of reviews (in addition to the one I linked to) which mention 14 stops and a number of others which stand firm with 12 stops. Those claiming 14 stops are getting that info from someplace and since those reviews are shooters doing real world tests I assume they're not simply misquoting an uninformed source. At some point they'll have to be some definitive tests done with proper charts and lighting.

January 11th, 2018, 12:08 PM	#27
Gary Huff Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 2,006	Re: New Panasonic GH5S introduced 14 stops for Raw stills, 12 stops for Vlog L. Vlog L is only 12 stops.

January 11th, 2018, 02:12 PM	#28
Cliff Totten Trustee Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Florida Posts: 1,197	Re: New Panasonic GH5S introduced Im inclined to believe exactly this. This IMX294 has been measured at 13.5 in an another (astronomy) camera. I'm expecting that Panasonic is chopping off those extra stops using the VLog-L limitation. I'm guessing this is no accident or oversight on Panny's part. I suspect it's 100% intentional. I'm betting when Panasonic bought the first STARVIS sensor evaluation coppies for their lab work, they looked at those sensor results and said "wow...holy crap" (in Japaneese) and imediately started wondering how dangerous this chip was to their EVA-1. Its not a good thing for the GH5-S to match (or pass) the overall image quality of a much more expensive model. They cant let the EVA-1 survive on just superior, professional ergonomics alone. Lol....;-)

January 11th, 2018, 06:51 PM	#29
Cliff Totten Trustee Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Florida Posts: 1,197	Re: New Panasonic GH5S introduced So it's time to bust the "GH5-S is a super low light beast" myth..... For the past few days I have been looking at all this GH5-S footage and thinking "damn,...I feel like I'm seeing a TON of noise reduction on this GH5-S" This was especially true when watch people compare the GH5-S to the A7S-II, a sensor with pixel wells (photosites) that are TWICE the size (8+ microns) of the GH5-S So DPReview has added the GH5-S to it's test database and you can now compare the two sensors for yourself. Make sure you adjust both cameras for RAW sensor data readout. This will strip away the in camera noise reduction so you can REALLY see what is going on under the hood of both cameras. We can all see now that the A7S-II smokes the GH5-S at every ISO/gain amount. Even at a low 200 ISO. This tells us there is a HUGE amount of noise reduction going on in the GH5-S and it does suffer form a softer image over the A7S-II because the noise reduction is scrubbing so much noise out. Make no mistake. The GH5-S is VERY respectable and very commendable. It DOES go toe to toe with the A6500 very well but no,...it does not "truely" touch the A7S-II. That was a very unrealistic dream we all had for a couple of days. https://www.dpreview.com/news/233357...o-scene-posted CT

January 11th, 2018, 08:59 PM	#30
Pete Cofrancesco Inner Circle Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 3,005	Re: New Panasonic GH5S introduced I agree about the NR. The other thing I noticed and is pointed out in a review, at the lower ISOs in dim situations there isn’t any difference between the GH5 and the GH5s. For the extra expense and what you’re giving up doesn’t seem like fair trade. Last edited by Pete Cofrancesco; January 12th, 2018 at 07:04 AM.