Metering modes most similar to what a videocamera uses at DVinfo.net

Jeff Harper · April 26th, 2011, 07:41 AM

When recording moves we have a variety of metering modes to choose from with the GH2. Is there a particular metering mode that would best emulate how a camera such as the FX1000 or EX1 would read and adjust exposure?

I might be on the wrong track, here's why I ask.

When using a conventional video camera, exposure is often nice and even, in the sense that the whole scene in properly exposed to account for the entire shot. Obviously, this is not always the case, but often it is, whether outdoors or in. I more often that not could rely on auto settings for all my cameras when shooting a wedding ceremony. Great focus, even exposure, etc, few overexposed spots. Again, not always. Many times I might have to go into manual exposure and adjust the iris, ISO, etc, but lots of time it wasn't necessary.

With the GH2 it seems often there is often times a huge contrast between subject and the outer areas of the scenes, and blown out highlights on the edges of the scene are often an issue. For example, on an altar shot that seemed to be perfectly exposed for most everything, the tiny candle flames on the edges of the scene were blown out. It was bizarre.

I obviously need to try out the various modes myself and try them out, but I just thought of this as another adjustment that might assist in run and gun work. Different situations will likely require different modes.

I also think the lens used, and the focal length can affect this as well. I noticed Sunday this problem is less with my 18-55mm f/2.8 than with say the 20mm F/1.7.

Any thoughts? Here are some shots using auto iso on three different lenses, exposure wide open, and what I find surprising is how much darker on the edges the image from the 20mm is. The 18-55 is actually better exposed overall. Maybe because it is widest, and has more scenery from which to calibrate the ISO settings.

From left to right 20mm, 30mm f/1.7, and bottom left is 18-55mm 2.8 lenses.

So much to learn about using these camera!

Nigel Barker · April 26th, 2011, 08:59 AM

Jeff, as you don't mention what aperture or ISO setting you used does that mean that you used automatic settings? If so then that accounts for the differences. You need to adjust exposure correctly by hand rather then rely on the camera getting it right (which clearly it didn't in this situation).

Jeff Harper · April 26th, 2011, 09:23 AM

I believe I was wide open on each lens, but it is possible I didn't adjust to ensure each lens was open as I should have, as I don't distinctly remember being careful to do that, but it was my intention. I was shooting a quick test and was rushed. The church is across the street. I'll go back Sunday and do it again, taking more time with a variety of settings.

Shutter was constant and ISO was on auto.

Bill Bruner · May 2nd, 2011, 11:23 PM

Jeff - if you used manual aperture and shutter settings, your problem may have been auto ISO. With this camera, I am turning into a big believer in manual settings for just about everything except focus (and when focus starts to "hunt", I go manual on that too!).

Bill

Jeff Harper · May 4th, 2011, 11:03 AM

Thanks for your input Bill.

Brian Luce · May 5th, 2011, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Bruner

Jeff - if you used manual aperture and shutter settings, your problem may have been auto ISO. With this camera, I am turning into a big believer in manual settings for just about everything except focus (and when focus starts to "hunt", I go manual on that too!).

Bill

that's how I shoot it. all manual, except for AF. and btw, you can set up AF so it won't hunt. It will be semi AF, AF will activate when shutter is half way depressed.

Jeff Harper · May 5th, 2011, 06:38 PM

Brian, you shoot ceremonies with set ISO? What do you do when your subject changes from say priest in well lit area, to a reader off to the side in very poorly lit conditions and you are already wide open? Slow down the shutter? I can't slow it down enough to compensate often times. Turn off the camera and reset it?

What about unmanned cameras? I run three. Though I do get to visit a couple of my unmanned cams here and there, I often cannot get to my balcony camera to change anything. One ceremony they lowered the lights after the ceremony started, the balcony cam was on set ISO, and the footage was seriously underexposed.

Brian Luce · May 5th, 2011, 09:47 PM

I'm not brave enough to shoot weddings. I do occasional concerts. What I do is expose for the darkest areas, set the camera up for that, then control the aperture and to a lesser extent, the shutter to get the best exposure.

Jeff Harper · May 6th, 2011, 12:38 AM

I thought about it, and I suppose for my primary, manned camera I could just use an ISO of say, 1000, and then close and open aperture as needed. Is that what you guys do? Otherwise I can't think of any way to have the latitude I would need for differing situations. It was my thought previously that auto ISO with a cap, of course, would provide smoother transitions in those situations when I cannot/do not want to stop and start to adjust ISO.

John Griswell · May 6th, 2011, 08:33 AM

What I have done at weddings with good success is to to use shutter priority mode (1/60 for 24p and 1/125 for 720p) and let the aperture and ISO float as needed to keep a good exposure. I then set the ISO limit to lowest I can get away with (normally 800 with the 20mm pancake).

Jeff Harper · May 6th, 2011, 08:57 AM

John, thanks, that was my thinking also. I haven't tried it yet, but seems to me to be the most logical for weddings. Why do you choose 1/125 for shutter, because it's double 60fps? I have read that double of frame rate is best, which is what you seem to be doing. But 1/125 would certainly be a bit on the "dark" side, wouldn't it? I have two f/2.8 lenses which need a bit slower shutter speed. Any harm in running 1/60 for shutter speed? Your thoughts?

To everyone else, full manual is how I shoot fun stuff, but weddings I need continual unbroken footage, and that is where the challenge comes in. I do use SP a lot even for fun stuff, as it allows for full manual control, except for the aperture, which is wherever I choose to leave it.

John Griswell · May 6th, 2011, 09:56 AM

>Why do you choose 1/125 for shutter, because it's double 60fps?

Yep. It has to do with the 180 shutter rule:

180 Degree Shutter - Learn It, Live It, Love It

It is ok to go lower but not higher. So if you are really pushing a lens in low light with 720p mode you can get away with 1/60. Same for 24p mode and 1/25.

Jeff Harper · May 6th, 2011, 01:15 PM

Very useful link, John, thanks a million. I had a paid shoot today, followed the rule, looks great!

Nigel Barker · May 6th, 2011, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Griswell

What I have done at weddings with good success is to to use shutter priority mode (1/60 for 24p and 1/125 for 720p) and let the aperture and ISO float as needed to keep a good exposure. I then set the ISO limit to lowest I can get away with (normally 800 with the 20mm pancake).

If you use auto-aperture you will get some weird looking footage where the DOF will change as the aperture opens & closes bringing objects in & out of focus.

Jeff Harper · May 6th, 2011, 05:36 PM

Great point Nigel, had not thought of that, but will not be a problem with Shutter Priority anyway, right?

April 26th, 2011, 07:41 AM	#1
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Metering modes most similar to what a videocamera uses When recording moves we have a variety of metering modes to choose from with the GH2. Is there a particular metering mode that would best emulate how a camera such as the FX1000 or EX1 would read and adjust exposure? I might be on the wrong track, here's why I ask. When using a conventional video camera, exposure is often nice and even, in the sense that the whole scene in properly exposed to account for the entire shot. Obviously, this is not always the case, but often it is, whether outdoors or in. I more often that not could rely on auto settings for all my cameras when shooting a wedding ceremony. Great focus, even exposure, etc, few overexposed spots. Again, not always. Many times I might have to go into manual exposure and adjust the iris, ISO, etc, but lots of time it wasn't necessary. With the GH2 it seems often there is often times a huge contrast between subject and the outer areas of the scenes, and blown out highlights on the edges of the scene are often an issue. For example, on an altar shot that seemed to be perfectly exposed for most everything, the tiny candle flames on the edges of the scene were blown out. It was bizarre. I obviously need to try out the various modes myself and try them out, but I just thought of this as another adjustment that might assist in run and gun work. Different situations will likely require different modes. I also think the lens used, and the focal length can affect this as well. I noticed Sunday this problem is less with my 18-55mm f/2.8 than with say the 20mm F/1.7. Any thoughts? Here are some shots using auto iso on three different lenses, exposure wide open, and what I find surprising is how much darker on the edges the image from the 20mm is. The 18-55 is actually better exposed overall. Maybe because it is widest, and has more scenery from which to calibrate the ISO settings. From left to right 20mm, 30mm f/1.7, and bottom left is 18-55mm 2.8 lenses. So much to learn about using these camera! Attached Thumbnails __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

April 26th, 2011, 08:59 AM	#2
Nigel Barker Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK Posts: 3,531	Re: Metering modes most similar to what a videocamera uses Jeff, as you don't mention what aperture or ISO setting you used does that mean that you used automatic settings? If so then that accounts for the differences. You need to adjust exposure correctly by hand rather then rely on the camera getting it right (which clearly it didn't in this situation).

April 26th, 2011, 09:23 AM	#3
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: Metering modes most similar to what a videocamera uses I believe I was wide open on each lens, but it is possible I didn't adjust to ensure each lens was open as I should have, as I don't distinctly remember being careful to do that, but it was my intention. I was shooting a quick test and was rushed. The church is across the street. I'll go back Sunday and do it again, taking more time with a variety of settings. Shutter was constant and ISO was on auto. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

May 2nd, 2011, 11:23 PM	#4
Bill Bruner Major Player Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Sunny California Posts: 513	Re: Metering modes most similar to what a videocamera uses Jeff - if you used manual aperture and shutter settings, your problem may have been auto ISO. With this camera, I am turning into a big believer in manual settings for just about everything except focus (and when focus starts to "hunt", I go manual on that too!). Bill

May 4th, 2011, 11:03 AM	#5
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: Metering modes most similar to what a videocamera uses Thanks for your input Bill. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

May 5th, 2011, 06:38 PM	#7
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: Metering modes most similar to what a videocamera uses Brian, you shoot ceremonies with set ISO? What do you do when your subject changes from say priest in well lit area, to a reader off to the side in very poorly lit conditions and you are already wide open? Slow down the shutter? I can't slow it down enough to compensate often times. Turn off the camera and reset it? What about unmanned cameras? I run three. Though I do get to visit a couple of my unmanned cams here and there, I often cannot get to my balcony camera to change anything. One ceremony they lowered the lights after the ceremony started, the balcony cam was on set ISO, and the footage was seriously underexposed. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described." Last edited by Jeff Harper; May 6th, 2011 at 08:01 AM.

May 5th, 2011, 09:47 PM	#8
Brian Luce Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,290	Re: Metering modes most similar to what a videocamera uses I'm not brave enough to shoot weddings. I do occasional concerts. What I do is expose for the darkest areas, set the camera up for that, then control the aperture and to a lesser extent, the shutter to get the best exposure.

May 6th, 2011, 12:38 AM	#9
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: Metering modes most similar to what a videocamera uses I thought about it, and I suppose for my primary, manned camera I could just use an ISO of say, 1000, and then close and open aperture as needed. Is that what you guys do? Otherwise I can't think of any way to have the latitude I would need for differing situations. It was my thought previously that auto ISO with a cap, of course, would provide smoother transitions in those situations when I cannot/do not want to stop and start to adjust ISO. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

May 6th, 2011, 08:33 AM	#10
John Griswell Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Austin, Tx Posts: 31	Re: Metering modes most similar to what a videocamera uses What I have done at weddings with good success is to to use shutter priority mode (1/60 for 24p and 1/125 for 720p) and let the aperture and ISO float as needed to keep a good exposure. I then set the ISO limit to lowest I can get away with (normally 800 with the 20mm pancake).

May 6th, 2011, 08:57 AM	#11
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: Metering modes most similar to what a videocamera uses John, thanks, that was my thinking also. I haven't tried it yet, but seems to me to be the most logical for weddings. Why do you choose 1/125 for shutter, because it's double 60fps? I have read that double of frame rate is best, which is what you seem to be doing. But 1/125 would certainly be a bit on the "dark" side, wouldn't it? I have two f/2.8 lenses which need a bit slower shutter speed. Any harm in running 1/60 for shutter speed? Your thoughts? To everyone else, full manual is how I shoot fun stuff, but weddings I need continual unbroken footage, and that is where the challenge comes in. I do use SP a lot even for fun stuff, as it allows for full manual control, except for the aperture, which is wherever I choose to leave it. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

May 6th, 2011, 09:56 AM	#12
John Griswell Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Austin, Tx Posts: 31	Re: Metering modes most similar to what a videocamera uses >Why do you choose 1/125 for shutter, because it's double 60fps? Yep. It has to do with the 180 shutter rule: 180 Degree Shutter - Learn It, Live It, Love It It is ok to go lower but not higher. So if you are really pushing a lens in low light with 720p mode you can get away with 1/60. Same for 24p mode and 1/25.

May 6th, 2011, 01:15 PM	#13
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: Metering modes most similar to what a videocamera uses Very useful link, John, thanks a million. I had a paid shoot today, followed the rule, looks great! __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

May 6th, 2011, 05:36 PM	#15
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: Metering modes most similar to what a videocamera uses Great point Nigel, had not thought of that, but will not be a problem with Shutter Priority anyway, right? __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."