Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming

[Jeff Harper]

So Patrick how did it go?

[Patrick Janka]

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

One thing I have learned from running forum sites for twelve years: people use them mostly for complaining. The number of folks not having problems outweighs the number of folks who do, but those people tend not to post (presumably because they're too busy enjoying their new camera). Nobody calls the police to report having a good day.

I agree, Chris. I personally love this camera. I find it way easier to use than the Canons, and after having just shot a music video using primarily T2i's (I had to use my cam one day due to an emergency), the footage from my cam blew away the T2i. The Canons aren't intuitive as far as having to menu surf for everything instead of having buttons/dials and going only a level deep into a menu like the GH2.

[Patrick Janka]

Jeff, I haven't done the wedding yet, it's at the end of next month. I was just saying in general.

[Jim Snow]

As I mentioned above, I really like the GH2. The complaints in a way make a person more credible with their overall opinion of the camera. I remember when I was considering buying my EX1R, a person who's opinion I respect a lot included some criticisms with his overall high opinion. That made his comments more credible to me.

[Jeff Harper]

Right Patrick, it's at the end of the month, my mistake.

[Zhong Cheung]

Thanks guys!

Yeah, I should have clarified that my question was directed at those with complaints with the GH2. Jeff Harper, it sounded as if you really didn't like the GH2 for weddings, yet were committed to figuring them out regardless of your qualms about the GH2.

So Jeff, your biggest qualms are:
GH2 is far too physically small, but you feel the Canon 60d would be a very useable size for weddings?
GH2 2x crop factor is a bit too much for wedding work (though to be fair, it's more like 1.9x in reality and the Canon 60d is more like 1.7x in reality)
GH2 menus and controls are hard to work with (can you expand on this please?)
GH2 shutter and aperature control use the same button, which can be easily mispressed

I am definitely not using one GH2 and nothing else. I do a three camera-shoot, so I'm trying to decide what those three cams should be.

I'm thinking right now: GH2, Canon 7d/60d, and Panasonic AG-AF100/Sony NEX FS-100/Canon 5d Mark II. However, I'm also concerned about cutting together the GH2 footage will look with Canon 7d/60d or 5dii footage. Leaning towards the AF100 because they are easier and cheaper to rent than the Sony FS-100, and since the Panny AF100 uses the same sensor as the GH2, I'm assuming they will match easily.

Obviously if I go with a real large sensor video camera (AF100 or FS100), that'll be my main camera, but if I'm going with three DSLR/EVIL cameras, then I was thinking of using the GH2 as my primary camera since it has far better resolution, less noise, virtually no aliasing/moire, 1:1 crop zoom, full HD external monitor output compared to the Canon 60d...oh and NO RECORDING LIMIT! Then I heard about these comments saying that the GH2 was too hard to use as a primary camera...and I wanted to know why it was too hard to use?

I'm also now hearing issues about the GH2 not outputing display info on an external monitor? Is that true? I would want to be able to see certain things like aperature setting, shutter setting, battery meter, audio level meters, etc. on my external 8" Lilliput monitor (800x600).

[Nigel Barker]

I have been using a Canon 5D Mk II for over two years & have had a GH2 for a couple of months so can talk with some authority on the pros & cons. For me the 5DII is simpler & easier to use plus it feels better in my hands but this is largely because I am so familiar with it & the GH2 is still relatively new to me. The 5DII is also simpler & easier to use because it has less features available than the GH2 e.g. no auto-focus, no ETC & simpler menus with fewer choices.

Most of the complaints that you have picked up on from this thread are really grumbles & irritations about design decisions that Panasonic made that we all think could have made the camera so much better if they had asked us before they put the camera into production:-) The single shutter/aperture wheel is irritating but that's all it's not a deal breaker but it could have been better. The HDMI monitor output only works in 1080 mode for some reason so it's irritating that it doesn't work in 720 mode again it's not a deal breaker but it could have been better.

The GH2 is no more difficult to use to shoot a wedding than a Canon DSLR & in fact has advantages in fact e.g. no 12 minute recording limit. In this situation both could benefit from use of a 'proper' video camera as a safety measure. The crop factor is neither better no worse than the Canons you just choose your lenses appropriately. The 2X crop factor plus ETC gives you a 'free' telephoto lens so that is one less to buy & carry in your bag. The 14-140mm lens can be used to cover the range for a 35mm full frame equivalent of 28-728mm (28-1092mm at 720p).

The bottom line is that the GH2 shoots video that is at least as good as the Canons & better in some regards as there less moire & aliasing with higher resolution, more detailed images.

[Brian Luce]

Hey Zhong, That's not true that the GH2 and AF100 use the same sensor. The only thing they have in common is the same lens mount: m43. Other than that, they're different animals. To everyone's suprise, the GH2 actually produced a better image -- though the AF100 has some nice ergonomic features and built in stuff.

With regards to menus, one reason we hate them is that there is a mechanical dial on the top right with way too many positions, and each position, or most of the position have their own unique menus. So in effect, once you start flipping through the menus on the LCD the amount of choices become mind boggling. Ditto for the mechanical dial for the auto focus settings. For that reason, I limit myself the "M" for still photos and "M+camera icon" for video. I don't know what all those other settings on the mechanical dial are for -- a lot seem redundant, either way, they just confuse things. So now, the only thing that I have to be careful about is accidentally bumping that mechanical dial, which can send me in to menu he*l. And bumping a button inadvertently seems particularly easy on the GH2 because it's so dang tiny, so you really have to double check those dials, just pulling it out of the case can easily turn the dial or another mechanical setting -- there just isn't much real estate on the body.

I did a recent 4 cam shoot with 3 gh2's and 1 gh1, I had no issues. All four cams fit in my backpack and you can use flimsy tripods if you're locked down. You can even clamp mount them -- the GH2 body weighs only 1.1 lbs. My biggest problem is pimpifying them to make paying customers feel like they're getting their money's worth. I use rails, Cokin cheapy matte box system, bolt my Tascam to the rails to make them think it's part of the camera, whatever it takes to create the illusion of value.

[Jeff Harper]

Zhong, the two best choices for bang for your buck, IMO would be the GH2 and the 60D, based on what I've read. The GH2 is so popular right now if you purchased it you would be able to sell it in a day or two on the classifieds, if you didn't like it.

The monitor issue is discussed in this forum, which you've read. Strictly for monitor purposes, the 60D would be good.

For a DSLR form factor, they are both excellent cameras, and you've just gotten caught up in the middle of a disucssion or two of the negatives by owners like me that have found downsides, which you will find with any camera.

[Zhong Cheung]

Thanks Jeff. Yeah, I am debating between the 60d and GH2. I love the 60d build quality, form factor (larger size than GH2), menus, LCD screen, etc.

But I love the GH2 because it provides much better video and no recording limit over the 60d. But then I hear the GH2 is almost impossible to focus (which doesn't make sense to me? why would it be harder to focus than on the 60d?) and the buttons get mispressed sending you to menu hell, etc.

I really don't know which is the better camera to use for weddings...if video quality is better on the GH2, but it is impossible to attain that higher quality, then the GH2 would be useless. I consider out of focus footage pretty useless.

What do you mean the monitoring issue is good for the 60d? From that other monitor thread, it sounds like it would be good for the GH2 as well?

Brian, oh wow, I thought I read somewhere on here that the GH2 and AF100 use the same sensor.

[Zhong Cheung]

Yeah Jeff...seems that way. I really want to like the GH2 more than the 60D since the GH2 has much better video quality, but things like being unable to focus the GH2 scare me. Is it really harder to focus on the GH2 compared to 60d? Why would that be...because of the 60d's better LCD? But I use an external monitor.

Things like no 720p output on external monitor, same button for shutter/aperature, no 1080p 30fps, messy menus and small size causing mispressed buttons are definitely downfalls of the GH2, inferior build quality, etc. but I can accept those. The one thing I can't accept is an inability to focus.

I heard the GH2 has great autofocus, so wouldn't that help? Or is their superior AF system only available on their slow kit lens?

[Dan Carter]

Zhong,

As an owner of the Canon 7D (which uses an almost identical focus system as the 60D) and the GH2, I guarantee the GH2 will focus faster and more accurately than the 60D. Faster because the contrast based AF of the Canons is very slow compared to the GH2, and when using phase detection AF the Canons must first flip the mirror up to focus video. In my experience the contrast based AF of the GH2 is as fast as the Canon phase detection AF even for stills. Accuracy of focus, for me, has also been better with the GH2.

Your mileage my vary.

[Brian Luce]

If I'm not mistaken the 60d disables AF once you hit record.

[Dan Carter]

Originally Posted by Brian Luce

If I'm not mistaken the 60d disables AF once you hit record.

Correct. No continuous AF with Canon 7D or 60D in video mode. You can refocus using the shutter button while recording, but the effect is unpredictable.

[Nigel Barker]

Who said the GH2 is difficult to focus compared to the Canon DSLRs? It has continuous AF in video mode with the right lenses which the Canon lack. When focusing manually you can use the high resolution EVF in video mode while the Canons must use the LCD screen. Using an external monitor you get full 1080 high resolution output whereas HDMI output of the Canon's is crippled is one way or another e.g. 5DII drops to 480p when recording starts.

The only argument may be that ergonomically it's more difficult with some lenses e.g. focusing manually with 20mm F/1.7 pancake lens.