Shooting advice needed for different cams at DVinfo.net

Jeff Harper · April 5th, 2011, 06:07 AM

Jim S, or anyone else with experience with my issue:

I have a problem I've been going round and round with, I'm hoping you can give me your take on how I should shoot with my cameras.

Here's the thing:

Camera 1 is a GH2. I can shoot 1080p 24fps with my monitor on, or shoot in 720p without it.

My (2) GH1s shoot 1080i or 720p.

If I shoot without my monitor, I can have matching footage so to speak, as all three camera can be shot in 720p.

But I would like to shoot with my monitor, which would mean an added step in the conversion process of rescaling. Considering I shoot up to three weddings a week, this prospect of added steps to the workflow is not pleasant, not to mention the GH2 footage is 24fps to boot.

The simple solution would be to shoot without a monitor, but it is SO hard on my eyes.

Another option is to shoot with the GH1s in 1080i 60fps) and the GH2 in 1080p 24fps. Then I would simply deinterlace the 1080i, right?

No matter how I shoot, it will all end up on a DVD 90% of the time.

At this point, the simplest thing appears to be to give up my monitor and shoot in 720p, but before I commit to this workflow I wanted to get some feedback.

I will likely replaced the GH1s with GH2s at some point, but for now this is where things are at.

I really don't know how the various options affect the end product, so this is the largest problem.

Jim Forrest · April 5th, 2011, 07:59 AM

If you shoot without a monitor you might consider get a Zacuto viewfinder. Using one makes it much easier to frame and focus. It will magnify the lcd screen and keep light out.
If I had to do things quickly as you do I wouldn't be without one.

Gordon Hoffman · April 5th, 2011, 08:02 AM

Jeff
I believe the GH1 in 1080 mode only shoots in 24p inbedded in a 60i stream. The GH2 I believe shoots in either 1080p24 or 60i.

Gordon

Jeff Harper · April 5th, 2011, 09:21 AM

Gordon, you're right, I have it wrong. Damn this is confusing.

Jeff Harper · April 5th, 2011, 09:37 AM

Gordon, thanks for your help, I don't know how I missed it.

So the question remains, I'm a bit more at a loss!

Jim Snow · April 5th, 2011, 10:07 AM

As you allude to, mixing frame rates in a project isn't a good idea. Converting 24 fps to 30 fps usually results in visible 'judder'. In scenes where there is little motion, it isn't very noticeable. Your idea of shooting with all GH2 cameras is the best solution because the footage from all cameras would be the same. The footage between a GH1 and GH2 differs in other respects as well so your projects may have that 'different camera look' in others ways also. So all you have to do is pick some more money off your money tree for a GH2 body. ;-)

Jeff Harper · April 5th, 2011, 10:14 AM

Thanks for the feedback Jim F onn the Zacuto, and Jim s for this last post.

My original plan was to shoot 1080i with GH2 and then downconvert to 720p with HD link. Your guys thoughts? Will it hold up?

I just received an upgrade from neoscene to hd link, so I can do that if I wish.

Jim Snow · April 5th, 2011, 10:17 AM

Down converting to 720p with HD Link will look great. Anything you can do to avoid frame rate conversion is worth doing.

Jeff Harper · April 5th, 2011, 11:52 AM

Jim, I've really been foolish, I forgot again the camera shoots in 1080i 24p when using the monitor and 1080i is not an option.

It really is of no use to use the monitor for my weddings.

I seriously am concerned about my memory. I can't keep track of anything lately. I spoke to a customer last week who called and I had no idea who they were, and they had been to my house three weeks prior.

Brian Luce · April 5th, 2011, 12:34 PM

I mix footage from those cams all the time. Just make sure the frame rates are the same. Zacuto loops will indeed save your eyes. But Zacuto isn't cheap, there are other affordable solutions, personally I like a loop with magnification. I use a DIY solution.

Jeff Harper · April 5th, 2011, 03:34 PM

Jim S, with the right lens combination, the GH2 and GH1 are indistinguishable, shooting modes aside. My best footage from the below clip was from the GH1, because it had the better lens, IMO. Take note of the brides dress at the house, and the buffet shot, which were shot with the GH1.

Unfortunately the Canon 50mm (at 100mm equivalent) is so long it is barely useable when handheld, but the images that do work out are very nice.

Nigel Barker · April 6th, 2011, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Forrest

If you shoot without a monitor you might consider get a Zacuto viewfinder. Using one makes it much easier to frame and focus. It will magnify the lcd screen and keep light out.
If I had to do things quickly as you do I wouldn't be without one.

The Zacuto viewfinder costs half as much as a GH2 & is only going to enlarge the pixels of the LCD. The EVF of the GH2 itself will be higher resolution. I don't normally like using a viewfinder but the GH2 one is very good indeed.

Brian Luce · April 6th, 2011, 12:19 AM

It's true, but on the other hand big, defined pixels pixels make focusing easier for me. ymmv. The EVF is indeed awesome and I love it to death, but for long event type shoots, I think the big fat Zacuto style loop has a place.

One thing I'm waiting for is a nice eye cup for the EVF. That will make things better.

Jim Forrest · April 6th, 2011, 06:59 AM

Yeah I was think the same thing about having an eye cup for the GH2 viewfinder too.
Wonder if anyone will make one.....at least something that will block out more light when using outside.

Jeff Harper · April 6th, 2011, 07:05 AM

What about a hood for the LCD, anyone using one? Sony makes one that I used for the FX1000, it was very helpful.

April 5th, 2011, 06:07 AM	#1
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Shooting advice needed for different cams Jim S, or anyone else with experience with my issue: I have a problem I've been going round and round with, I'm hoping you can give me your take on how I should shoot with my cameras. Here's the thing: Camera 1 is a GH2. I can shoot 1080p 24fps with my monitor on, or shoot in 720p without it. My (2) GH1s shoot 1080i or 720p. If I shoot without my monitor, I can have matching footage so to speak, as all three camera can be shot in 720p. But I would like to shoot with my monitor, which would mean an added step in the conversion process of rescaling. Considering I shoot up to three weddings a week, this prospect of added steps to the workflow is not pleasant, not to mention the GH2 footage is 24fps to boot. The simple solution would be to shoot without a monitor, but it is SO hard on my eyes. Another option is to shoot with the GH1s in 1080i 60fps) and the GH2 in 1080p 24fps. Then I would simply deinterlace the 1080i, right? No matter how I shoot, it will all end up on a DVD 90% of the time. At this point, the simplest thing appears to be to give up my monitor and shoot in 720p, but before I commit to this workflow I wanted to get some feedback. I will likely replaced the GH1s with GH2s at some point, but for now this is where things are at. I really don't know how the various options affect the end product, so this is the largest problem. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

April 5th, 2011, 07:59 AM	#2
Jim Forrest Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Washington DC Posts: 368	Re: Shooting advice needed for different cams If you shoot without a monitor you might consider get a Zacuto viewfinder. Using one makes it much easier to frame and focus. It will magnify the lcd screen and keep light out. If I had to do things quickly as you do I wouldn't be without one.

April 5th, 2011, 08:02 AM	#3
Gordon Hoffman Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Pincher Creek, Alberta Canada Posts: 619	Re: Shooting advice needed for different cams Jeff I believe the GH1 in 1080 mode only shoots in 24p inbedded in a 60i stream. The GH2 I believe shoots in either 1080p24 or 60i. Gordon

April 5th, 2011, 09:21 AM	#4
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: Shooting advice needed for different cams Gordon, you're right, I have it wrong. Damn this is confusing. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

April 5th, 2011, 09:37 AM	#5
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: Shooting advice needed for different cams Gordon, thanks for your help, I don't know how I missed it. So the question remains, I'm a bit more at a loss! __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

April 5th, 2011, 10:07 AM	#6
Jim Snow Trustee Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Santa Clara, CA Posts: 1,104	Re: Shooting advice needed for different cams As you allude to, mixing frame rates in a project isn't a good idea. Converting 24 fps to 30 fps usually results in visible 'judder'. In scenes where there is little motion, it isn't very noticeable. Your idea of shooting with all GH2 cameras is the best solution because the footage from all cameras would be the same. The footage between a GH1 and GH2 differs in other respects as well so your projects may have that 'different camera look' in others ways also. So all you have to do is pick some more money off your money tree for a GH2 body. ;-)

April 5th, 2011, 10:14 AM	#7
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: Shooting advice needed for different cams Thanks for the feedback Jim F onn the Zacuto, and Jim s for this last post. My original plan was to shoot 1080i with GH2 and then downconvert to 720p with HD link. Your guys thoughts? Will it hold up? I just received an upgrade from neoscene to hd link, so I can do that if I wish. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

April 5th, 2011, 10:17 AM	#8
Jim Snow Trustee Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Santa Clara, CA Posts: 1,104	Re: Shooting advice needed for different cams Down converting to 720p with HD Link will look great. Anything you can do to avoid frame rate conversion is worth doing.

April 5th, 2011, 11:52 AM	#9
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: Shooting advice needed for different cams Jim, I've really been foolish, I forgot again the camera shoots in 1080i 24p when using the monitor and 1080i is not an option. It really is of no use to use the monitor for my weddings. I seriously am concerned about my memory. I can't keep track of anything lately. I spoke to a customer last week who called and I had no idea who they were, and they had been to my house three weeks prior. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

April 5th, 2011, 12:34 PM	#10
Brian Luce Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,290	Re: Shooting advice needed for different cams I mix footage from those cams all the time. Just make sure the frame rates are the same. Zacuto loops will indeed save your eyes. But Zacuto isn't cheap, there are other affordable solutions, personally I like a loop with magnification. I use a DIY solution.

April 5th, 2011, 03:34 PM	#11
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: Shooting advice needed for different cams Jim S, with the right lens combination, the GH2 and GH1 are indistinguishable, shooting modes aside. My best footage from the below clip was from the GH1, because it had the better lens, IMO. Take note of the brides dress at the house, and the buffet shot, which were shot with the GH1. Unfortunately the Canon 50mm (at 100mm equivalent) is so long it is barely useable when handheld, but the images that do work out are very nice. GH2 & GH1 Wedding Clips - Slow Motion Test - Miguel's Wedding - on Vimeo __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

April 6th, 2011, 12:19 AM	#13
Brian Luce Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,290	Re: Shooting advice needed for different cams It's true, but on the other hand big, defined pixels pixels make focusing easier for me. ymmv. The EVF is indeed awesome and I love it to death, but for long event type shoots, I think the big fat Zacuto style loop has a place. One thing I'm waiting for is a nice eye cup for the EVF. That will make things better.

April 6th, 2011, 06:59 AM	#14
Jim Forrest Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Washington DC Posts: 368	Re: Shooting advice needed for different cams Yeah I was think the same thing about having an eye cup for the GH2 viewfinder too. Wonder if anyone will make one.....at least something that will block out more light when using outside.

April 6th, 2011, 07:05 AM	#15
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: Shooting advice needed for different cams What about a hood for the LCD, anyone using one? Sony makes one that I used for the FX1000, it was very helpful. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."