720/24p at DVinfo.net

Martyn Hull · February 26th, 2011, 05:13 AM

My GH2 was on my tripod filming a set scene,i filmed in 720 and 24p and for the life of me i cant see any difference in the resolution /sharpness, impossible everyones saying your a blind old geezer, but my son is not,whats going on, we have 3 1920x1080P tvs including a 50" and 42", i realy like my GH but as yet i still cant get the quality of color i get from my HDV HV30, perhaps the hype sets expectations too high.

Martyn Hull · February 26th, 2011, 12:15 PM

No two cams give exactly the same color i know and green in the wild like grass is the week link for me but in other areas it has better color than others,regarding the 720/24P closer inspection does show it resolves more in 24P the trouble is 24P is for tripod only with virtualy no panning to be used here in pal areas to make it useable.

Jim Forrest · February 26th, 2011, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martyn Hull

My GH2 was on my tripod filming a set scene,i filmed in 720 and 24p and for the life of me i cant see any difference in the resolution /sharpness, impossible everyones saying your a blind old geezer, but my son is not,whats going on, we have 3 1920x1080P tvs including a 50" and 42", i realy like my GH but as yet i still cant get the quality of color i get from my HDV HV30, perhaps the hype sets expectations too high.

I don't believe the GH2 does 720 in 24p.

Jeff Harper · February 27th, 2011, 12:32 AM

Jim, GH2 does do 24p, and at two different bit rates, 17mbps or 24mpbs, your choice.

Anyway, I shot a wedding earlier today with a GH2, GH1 and an FX1. GH2 and GH1 both made the FX1 look pathetic. I've shot at least 20 weddings using HV30s alongside other cameras, and the HV30's tiny chips produce extremely poor images once the lighting drops, almost useless. In the right conditions, the FX1 produces nice images, but it cannot beat out the GH2.

Anyway, the below images are screen grabs taken from Windows Media Player, which I paused, then used the snipping tool to produce the screen grab. What is most astonishing is that white balance was set in Auto, and I thought it was nearly perfect.

The GH1/2 is not hype. It has 4/3" chips, the HV30 has less than 1/2 inch. In nice light, the HV30 can produce excellent images, but it is physically impossible for it to produce better than the GH1, unless the GH1 is set incorrectly. Manual film mode is the best way to get great images, and you must set the ISO manually most of the time, unless your lighting is just right. I cannot imagine running the GH1 or GH2 in Creative Intelligent mode and expect to get great images for my particular work.

The second photo below I like the color reproduction of the woman's print top, it's extremely accurate. The skin tones in the third photos are extremely nice.

Martyn, it may be you are used to the warmth of the HV30, or whatever look you get from it. I have shot footage with the HV30 that was very nice, especially in the cinema mode or whatever it's called. But I have plenty of experience with that camera, and I was quite tired of it. As soon as you move more than 10 feet from a subject indoors, it loses it's sharpness, wheras the GH2 is amazing at 30 feet, everything is stll crisp and clear.

I'm hooked. The camera does have it's difficulties. Learning to focus on the fly is tough. The face tracking thing is VERY nice, I love it, and it works. Keeping exposure set correctly, the ISO etc, is a challenge, but well worth it. I will have to invest in a fast zoom lens, which will be expensive, as the 14-140 is very weak for wedding work.

It's quite a camera, and I'm very happy.

I should add the 20mm pancake is decent, but I feel it too will have to be replaced...it is not wide enough for me, and I would prefer something along the lines of a 1.4 or faster. But all in all, it is still a very good lens for the money.

Martyn Hull · February 27th, 2011, 02:56 AM

Jeff this could be where we differ i dont like the HV30 in cinemode the colours are too dull for me,regarding its low light ability i know its not that good but i film outdoors most of the time,the GH2s color is not bad by any meens its just that i have as yet not got the same renditions i get with my HV30 or got with a 550D i had but there are many options to choose from so it will with more fiddling,i do a lot of wildlife filming and the E-T-C function was very welcome with its 2.6x extra zoom the 3.9x using 720P is not realy on as the picture degrades a lot but i see canons new T3i has a 10x extra lossless extra zoom feature maybe i should have waited a bit.

Jim Forrest · February 27th, 2011, 09:23 AM

He was talking about 24p in 720.
Frame grabs look great.

Jeff Harper · February 27th, 2011, 09:44 AM

I thought 24p on the GH2 was 720, but it does appear to be 1080....thanks Jim.

Brian Luce · February 27th, 2011, 02:37 PM

According to the manual, 720 only supports 30p. One wouldn't know by cycling through the menus, Panasonic doesn't seem particularly interested in telling you frame rates in camera.

Martyn Hull · February 28th, 2011, 09:50 AM

YouTube - HV30 FILE 28-2-2011.mp4 here is some of my HV30 footage Jeff, I think the cam holds up pretty well in my opinion

also for anyone interested here is a test i did with my GH2s 720P E-T-C footage showing the degradation with it on compared to off,if the clip is not marked it is as the last marked clip,there are only a few clips with E-T-C off. YouTube - E-T-C TEST.mp4 E-T-C in other frame rates is lossless,

Jeff Harper · March 1st, 2011, 10:12 AM

Martyn, your HV30 footage looked vey nice.

The GH2 footage appears to be outdoor footage shot on a sunny day without a Neutral Density filter, which leaves it at a dramatic disadvantage. I also hope you had a lens hood attached to your lens, but who knows.

You did not put the care into the shoot with the GH2 as you did with the HV30, as is clear by the shaky camera. Did you run in manual, with a neutral density filter, and then use the optimal settings? Didn't appear to be the case, but I could be wrong.

Unless you posted and I missed it, please list your lens and exposure settings.

If you are running in Intelligent Auto Mode, which I cannot believe you are, then that would be further explanation of your issues.

This camera is not the HV30, and requires proper lenses and manual operation for great video. It is not a point and shoot, unless you want it to be, but then you will get point and shoot results.

You do not need the extensive rig shown below to achieve excellent images with this camera, but these quality images can be achieved with a decent lens (which the kit lenses are not) and proper operation of the camera.

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/panasoni...capes-gh2.html

Martyn Hull · March 1st, 2011, 10:32 AM

Jeff i am quite capable of using my GH2 that was just a test to show the camera in E-T-C mode using 720P frame rate and the fact quality is then lost unlike using it in the other frame rates,the lens was a 45-200mm panasonic which like my other lens the 14-145mm are perfectly capable of taking good footage ,regarding the shake at over 1500mm 35mm equivalent with the E-T-C on in some wind even on a tripod the footage will show some shake unless an industrial tripod is used which i dont have or the energy to carry around,so i was not knocking the GH2s ability only E-T-C in 720P mode,thanks for your comments.

Jim Forrest · March 1st, 2011, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Luce

According to the manual, 720 only supports 30p. One wouldn't know by cycling through the menus, Panasonic doesn't seem particularly interested in telling you frame rates in camera.

My manual says 720 is 60p in AVCHD, unless you are doing Motion JPEG, it is 30p. I haven't tried shooting with Motion JPEG yet.

Jeff Harper · March 1st, 2011, 02:57 PM

ooops, sorry, since you had been discussing your disappointment with the footage previously, I took this to be a continuation of that vein of thought, and by your including the HV30 link it had seemed to be a comparison, but I was wrong.

The HV30 certainly looked good, the GH2, not so much, but you never intended for the two to be compared, which is certainly my mistake.

February 26th, 2011, 05:13 AM	#1
Martyn Hull Major Player Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: England Posts: 444	720/24p My GH2 was on my tripod filming a set scene,i filmed in 720 and 24p and for the life of me i cant see any difference in the resolution /sharpness, impossible everyones saying your a blind old geezer, but my son is not,whats going on, we have 3 1920x1080P tvs including a 50" and 42", i realy like my GH but as yet i still cant get the quality of color i get from my HDV HV30, perhaps the hype sets expectations too high.

February 26th, 2011, 12:15 PM	#2
Martyn Hull Major Player Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: England Posts: 444	Re: 720/24p No two cams give exactly the same color i know and green in the wild like grass is the week link for me but in other areas it has better color than others,regarding the 720/24P closer inspection does show it resolves more in 24P the trouble is 24P is for tripod only with virtualy no panning to be used here in pal areas to make it useable.

February 27th, 2011, 12:32 AM	#4
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: 720/24p Jim, GH2 does do 24p, and at two different bit rates, 17mbps or 24mpbs, your choice. Anyway, I shot a wedding earlier today with a GH2, GH1 and an FX1. GH2 and GH1 both made the FX1 look pathetic. I've shot at least 20 weddings using HV30s alongside other cameras, and the HV30's tiny chips produce extremely poor images once the lighting drops, almost useless. In the right conditions, the FX1 produces nice images, but it cannot beat out the GH2. Anyway, the below images are screen grabs taken from Windows Media Player, which I paused, then used the snipping tool to produce the screen grab. What is most astonishing is that white balance was set in Auto, and I thought it was nearly perfect. The GH1/2 is not hype. It has 4/3" chips, the HV30 has less than 1/2 inch. In nice light, the HV30 can produce excellent images, but it is physically impossible for it to produce better than the GH1, unless the GH1 is set incorrectly. Manual film mode is the best way to get great images, and you must set the ISO manually most of the time, unless your lighting is just right. I cannot imagine running the GH1 or GH2 in Creative Intelligent mode and expect to get great images for my particular work. The second photo below I like the color reproduction of the woman's print top, it's extremely accurate. The skin tones in the third photos are extremely nice. Martyn, it may be you are used to the warmth of the HV30, or whatever look you get from it. I have shot footage with the HV30 that was very nice, especially in the cinema mode or whatever it's called. But I have plenty of experience with that camera, and I was quite tired of it. As soon as you move more than 10 feet from a subject indoors, it loses it's sharpness, wheras the GH2 is amazing at 30 feet, everything is stll crisp and clear. I'm hooked. The camera does have it's difficulties. Learning to focus on the fly is tough. The face tracking thing is VERY nice, I love it, and it works. Keeping exposure set correctly, the ISO etc, is a challenge, but well worth it. I will have to invest in a fast zoom lens, which will be expensive, as the 14-140 is very weak for wedding work. It's quite a camera, and I'm very happy. I should add the 20mm pancake is decent, but I feel it too will have to be replaced...it is not wide enough for me, and I would prefer something along the lines of a 1.4 or faster. But all in all, it is still a very good lens for the money. Attached Thumbnails __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described." Last edited by Jeff Harper; February 27th, 2011 at 01:08 AM.

February 27th, 2011, 02:56 AM	#5
Martyn Hull Major Player Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: England Posts: 444	Re: 720/24p Jeff this could be where we differ i dont like the HV30 in cinemode the colours are too dull for me,regarding its low light ability i know its not that good but i film outdoors most of the time,the GH2s color is not bad by any meens its just that i have as yet not got the same renditions i get with my HV30 or got with a 550D i had but there are many options to choose from so it will with more fiddling,i do a lot of wildlife filming and the E-T-C function was very welcome with its 2.6x extra zoom the 3.9x using 720P is not realy on as the picture degrades a lot but i see canons new T3i has a 10x extra lossless extra zoom feature maybe i should have waited a bit.

February 27th, 2011, 09:23 AM	#6
Jim Forrest Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Washington DC Posts: 368	Re: 720/24p He was talking about 24p in 720. Frame grabs look great.

February 27th, 2011, 09:44 AM	#7
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: 720/24p I thought 24p on the GH2 was 720, but it does appear to be 1080....thanks Jim. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

February 27th, 2011, 02:37 PM	#8
Brian Luce Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,290	Re: 720/24p According to the manual, 720 only supports 30p. One wouldn't know by cycling through the menus, Panasonic doesn't seem particularly interested in telling you frame rates in camera.

February 28th, 2011, 09:50 AM	#9
Martyn Hull Major Player Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: England Posts: 444	Re: 720/24p YouTube - HV30 FILE 28-2-2011.mp4 here is some of my HV30 footage Jeff, I think the cam holds up pretty well in my opinion also for anyone interested here is a test i did with my GH2s 720P E-T-C footage showing the degradation with it on compared to off,if the clip is not marked it is as the last marked clip,there are only a few clips with E-T-C off. YouTube - E-T-C TEST.mp4 E-T-C in other frame rates is lossless,

March 1st, 2011, 10:12 AM	#10
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: 720/24p Martyn, your HV30 footage looked vey nice. The GH2 footage appears to be outdoor footage shot on a sunny day without a Neutral Density filter, which leaves it at a dramatic disadvantage. I also hope you had a lens hood attached to your lens, but who knows. You did not put the care into the shoot with the GH2 as you did with the HV30, as is clear by the shaky camera. Did you run in manual, with a neutral density filter, and then use the optimal settings? Didn't appear to be the case, but I could be wrong. Unless you posted and I missed it, please list your lens and exposure settings. If you are running in Intelligent Auto Mode, which I cannot believe you are, then that would be further explanation of your issues. This camera is not the HV30, and requires proper lenses and manual operation for great video. It is not a point and shoot, unless you want it to be, but then you will get point and shoot results. You do not need the extensive rig shown below to achieve excellent images with this camera, but these quality images can be achieved with a decent lens (which the kit lenses are not) and proper operation of the camera. http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/panasoni...capes-gh2.html __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

March 1st, 2011, 10:32 AM	#11
Martyn Hull Major Player Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: England Posts: 444	Re: 720/24p Jeff i am quite capable of using my GH2 that was just a test to show the camera in E-T-C mode using 720P frame rate and the fact quality is then lost unlike using it in the other frame rates,the lens was a 45-200mm panasonic which like my other lens the 14-145mm are perfectly capable of taking good footage ,regarding the shake at over 1500mm 35mm equivalent with the E-T-C on in some wind even on a tripod the footage will show some shake unless an industrial tripod is used which i dont have or the energy to carry around,so i was not knocking the GH2s ability only E-T-C in 720P mode,thanks for your comments.

March 1st, 2011, 02:57 PM	#13
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: 720/24p ooops, sorry, since you had been discussing your disappointment with the footage previously, I took this to be a continuation of that vein of thought, and by your including the HV30 link it had seemed to be a comparison, but I was wrong. The HV30 certainly looked good, the GH2, not so much, but you never intended for the two to be compared, which is certainly my mistake. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."