Moire with GH2 after converted at DVinfo.net

Jeff Harper · February 16th, 2011, 03:21 PM

OK, made 3 minute test video of my cats, shot in 1080i. when I rendered the files in Vegas to 1080 60i avi, it was perfect. Pay particular attention to the shoestring that dangles at just over halfway. Cincinnati Video Production by Jeff Harper Video

When rendered to vanilla SD widescreeen avi, lines that occur when during pans are quite severe.

Mpeg2 widescreen for DVD, same thing, of course. I couldn't possibly put this on a DVD for a customer.

Do I have to record in SD to get acceptable quality for DVDs? I was hoping to shoot in DVD and give customers an option later on for Bluray, but at this point it looks pretty hopeless. Suggestions anyone?

David Grinnell · February 16th, 2011, 04:09 PM

this thread helped me :)

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/what-hap...d-quality.html

Jim Snow · February 16th, 2011, 04:12 PM

Good news - sort of. The problem you describe isn't a problem with the camera; it's with your resizing / conversion. What you are seeing isn't moire, it's interlacing and resizing artifacts. I believe you are using Vegas, is that right? What settings are you using?

Jeff Harper · February 16th, 2011, 04:45 PM

Well for what you saw I rendered out to .avi widescreen. When I rendered to HD avi it was perfect, but I think I already said that.

Jim, I've played with it some many ways, I am not sure. I believe I used the properties of the footage for editing, then cropped the clips to 16:9, then rendered to .avi.

I did the same thing for mpeg2 for sd video 16:9 and the results were exactly the same.

Jeff Harper · February 16th, 2011, 04:47 PM

David, thanks. but that is a VERY long thread!

Martyn Hull · February 16th, 2011, 05:39 PM

What does the footage look like played direct to your HD tv via hdmi, if its ok the problem is with the edit.

Jeff Harper · February 16th, 2011, 08:09 PM

I had been in this coversation two years ago or so about HD to SD and I kept preaching at everyone it is better to shoot in SD if the end product was going to be SD. I had among the first FX1000, but never used it for HD. I only bought them for the 16:9 picture.

Now I actually want to shoot HD with my HD camera, and I've forgotten what little I Iearned back then. I want to shoot HD and downconvert so I can upsell BluRay discs later, and so I can have HD samples.

Anyway, I'm going to shoot 720p this evening and see if it converts any better. I don't understand the technicalites of all this, I try and learn what will work and leave the debating to everyone else and forget about it.

Or if anyone can suggest something I can do in post to make it better that would be great too. If I haven't given enough information, let me know.

David Grinnell · February 16th, 2011, 08:15 PM

yeah no joke!! it takes a while to filter out whats there...

-bring the video into Vegas(same settings as the footage, ie. 1080, 24p or whatever it may be)
-Render out a uncompressed AVI
-Open in Vdub
-Use the resize filter (on filter mode use Lanczos3)
-Render it out of Vdub using the Lagarith codec
-then bring it back into vegas and it works great

Thats just what I got out of that monster thread hah

David

Jeff Harper · February 16th, 2011, 10:55 PM

Thanks David, I'll try it. Hopefully the resulting files won't be too large, my projects tend to be about 1.5-2 hours.

Jeff Harper · February 16th, 2011, 11:13 PM

David, the 3 minute video rendered at default uncompressed it 33GB. an hour would be 600GB. 2 hours would be 1.2GB. I'm not a numbers guy, so I might be wrong.

Any thoughts? Wait, I'm going to render it differently to 1080 60i again, and try that, that should be smaller, more like 6gb

Jeff Harper · February 16th, 2011, 11:45 PM

When rendered out to 1080i avi the file is only 16GB, still quite large. I'll put into Virtual Dub and see if I can figure out how it works...thanks David.

Brian Luce · February 17th, 2011, 02:44 AM

I tried to consolidate some of the info in the above linked thread on HD to SD conversion. Personally I think it's just too many steps to take and too cumbersome. Maybe there's a plugin or other method?

Have you tried to film in 1080p and then downconvert?

Waldi Krasowski · February 17th, 2011, 03:16 AM

Nowadays I always shoot in HD. As SD can easily be downsized from HD - but not the other way back! So far did not encounter any problems with it.

Jeff Harper · February 17th, 2011, 07:40 AM

I'm thinking what I actually might have seen in my video was the effect of rolling shutter, magnified via conversion. It sure fits the bill.

Guy McLoughlin · February 17th, 2011, 09:01 AM

Jeff, the problem you are seeing is 1080 60i interlacing artifacts, not moire.

I would recommend that you either shoot in 24P progressive mode ( which will eliminate interlacing completely ) or de-interlace your video with Sony Vegas Pro, before down-rezing to SD format.

February 16th, 2011, 03:21 PM	#1
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Moire with GH2 after converted OK, made 3 minute test video of my cats, shot in 1080i. when I rendered the files in Vegas to 1080 60i avi, it was perfect. Pay particular attention to the shoestring that dangles at just over halfway. Cincinnati Video Production by Jeff Harper Video When rendered to vanilla SD widescreeen avi, lines that occur when during pans are quite severe. Mpeg2 widescreen for DVD, same thing, of course. I couldn't possibly put this on a DVD for a customer. Do I have to record in SD to get acceptable quality for DVDs? I was hoping to shoot in DVD and give customers an option later on for Bluray, but at this point it looks pretty hopeless. Suggestions anyone? __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described." Last edited by Jeff Harper; February 16th, 2011 at 04:01 PM.

February 16th, 2011, 04:45 PM	#4
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Well for what you saw I rendered out to .avi widescreen. When I rendered to HD avi it was perfect, but I think I already said that. Jim, I've played with it some many ways, I am not sure. I believe I used the properties of the footage for editing, then cropped the clips to 16:9, then rendered to .avi. I did the same thing for mpeg2 for sd video 16:9 and the results were exactly the same. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

February 16th, 2011, 04:47 PM	#5
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	David, thanks. but that is a VERY long thread! __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

February 16th, 2011, 08:09 PM	#7
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	I had been in this coversation two years ago or so about HD to SD and I kept preaching at everyone it is better to shoot in SD if the end product was going to be SD. I had among the first FX1000, but never used it for HD. I only bought them for the 16:9 picture. Now I actually want to shoot HD with my HD camera, and I've forgotten what little I Iearned back then. I want to shoot HD and downconvert so I can upsell BluRay discs later, and so I can have HD samples. Anyway, I'm going to shoot 720p this evening and see if it converts any better. I don't understand the technicalites of all this, I try and learn what will work and leave the debating to everyone else and forget about it. Or if anyone can suggest something I can do in post to make it better that would be great too. If I haven't given enough information, let me know. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

February 16th, 2011, 10:55 PM	#9
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Thanks David, I'll try it. Hopefully the resulting files won't be too large, my projects tend to be about 1.5-2 hours. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

February 16th, 2011, 04:09 PM	#2
David Grinnell Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Owensboro, ky Posts: 96	this thread helped me :) http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/what-hap...d-quality.html

February 16th, 2011, 04:12 PM	#3
Jim Snow Trustee Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Santa Clara, CA Posts: 1,104	Good news - sort of. The problem you describe isn't a problem with the camera; it's with your resizing / conversion. What you are seeing isn't moire, it's interlacing and resizing artifacts. I believe you are using Vegas, is that right? What settings are you using?

February 16th, 2011, 05:39 PM	#6
Martyn Hull Major Player Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: England Posts: 444	What does the footage look like played direct to your HD tv via hdmi, if its ok the problem is with the edit.

February 16th, 2011, 08:15 PM	#8
David Grinnell Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Owensboro, ky Posts: 96	yeah no joke!! it takes a while to filter out whats there... -bring the video into Vegas(same settings as the footage, ie. 1080, 24p or whatever it may be) -Render out a uncompressed AVI -Open in Vdub -Use the resize filter (on filter mode use Lanczos3) -Render it out of Vdub using the Lagarith codec -then bring it back into vegas and it works great Thats just what I got out of that monster thread hah David

February 16th, 2011, 11:13 PM	#10
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	David, the 3 minute video rendered at default uncompressed it 33GB. an hour would be 600GB. 2 hours would be 1.2GB. I'm not a numbers guy, so I might be wrong. Any thoughts? Wait, I'm going to render it differently to 1080 60i again, and try that, that should be smaller, more like 6gb __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

February 16th, 2011, 11:45 PM	#11
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	When rendered out to 1080i avi the file is only 16GB, still quite large. I'll put into Virtual Dub and see if I can figure out how it works...thanks David. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

February 17th, 2011, 02:44 AM	#12
Brian Luce Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,290	I tried to consolidate some of the info in the above linked thread on HD to SD conversion. Personally I think it's just too many steps to take and too cumbersome. Maybe there's a plugin or other method? Have you tried to film in 1080p and then downconvert?

February 17th, 2011, 03:16 AM	#13
Waldi Krasowski Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Poland Posts: 106	Nowadays I always shoot in HD. As SD can easily be downsized from HD - but not the other way back! So far did not encounter any problems with it.

February 17th, 2011, 07:40 AM	#14
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	I'm thinking what I actually might have seen in my video was the effect of rolling shutter, magnified via conversion. It sure fits the bill. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

February 17th, 2011, 09:01 AM	#15
Guy McLoughlin Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 287	Jeff, the problem you are seeing is 1080 60i interlacing artifacts, not moire. I would recommend that you either shoot in 24P progressive mode ( which will eliminate interlacing completely ) or de-interlace your video with Sony Vegas Pro, before down-rezing to SD format.