Moire with GH2 after converted

Jim Forrest · February 17th, 2011, 09:10 AM

That SD looks pretty darn good. The shoestring looks like a rolling shutter effect to me. If it was a moire problem I think you would see it on the cats whiskers.

Jeff Harper · February 17th, 2011, 09:17 AM

It doesn't show up in the original footage, but must be exacerbated in process.

Jim Snow · February 17th, 2011, 10:02 AM

That isn't rolling shutter; it's interlacing artifacts as a result of resizing. That, I'm one hundred percent sure of.

Jeff Harper · February 17th, 2011, 10:04 AM

Great, Jim, just when I thought I had it.

Jim Snow · February 17th, 2011, 10:10 AM

If you can let me have a clip of the swinging thread, I will resize it for you. Important - I need the original untouched clip from the camera. A good way to do it is with Dropbox https://www.dropbox.com/ You put a file in the public folder in your Dropbox and copy the link to it and post the link. That will allow it to be downloaded by someone else. I won't be able to do it until later this evening. I am about to leave on a job.

Waldi Krasowski · February 17th, 2011, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Snow

That isn't rolling shutter; it's interlacing

That's what I thought. But hey - maybe we see it because Jeff put interlaced video on a webpage instead of making it progressive..?

Jeff Harper · February 17th, 2011, 11:02 AM

The flash video you see looks exactly the same as the avi file for the most part.

Waldi Krasowski · February 17th, 2011, 01:17 PM

What is your Vegas version? For flawless HD footage editing you should use 9 or 10.

Jeff Harper · February 17th, 2011, 05:10 PM

I am. As Jim says I'm not resizing it properly.

I have been away all day and will play more with it tonite, or tomorrow. Jim I will send you the clip as soon as I catch my breath and get done with dinner.

Jeff Harper · February 17th, 2011, 07:11 PM

Jim, here the clip. Right click on it. http://cincinnativideo.net/PriceList/Cats/00012.MTS

Jim Snow · February 17th, 2011, 07:52 PM

Hi Jeff, Here is the resized MPEG file. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8731209/0012%20resized.mpg

As you can see, it's very clean. NLE's do a bad job of resizing interlaced video. They leave some pretty bad looking interlace artifacts. I used HDLink which is part of Cineform NeoHD. It does a great job as you can see. When you look at it, you are going to have a hard time believing that it's just an SD MPEG video clip. Let me know what you think.

I rendered it out of Vegas as an MPEG file AFTER I resized it with Cineform HDLink. Cineform HDLink doesn't convert to MPEG. It creates a Cineform .avi file.

Brian Luce · February 18th, 2011, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Snow

Hi Jeff, Here is the resized MPEG file. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8731209/0012%20resized.mpg

I rendered it out of Vegas as an MPEG file AFTER I resized it with Cineform HDLink. Cineform HDLink doesn't convert to MPEG. It creates a Cineform .avi file.

So HD Link is a good solution for resizing hd to sd? Have you integrated it in to a SD DVD authoring in DVDA or some other program? The Virtual Dub solution is just too many hoops to jump through.

Jeff Harper · February 18th, 2011, 12:34 PM

I've been offline since yesterday, glad to be back.

Thanks for the imput, everyone.

Guy, you were correct, as Jim was.

Jim, that is perfect, VERY nice. HD link did an amazing job. Guy recommended deinterlacing in Vegas before editing, is that enough?

I've been swamped with editing, time is limited, so I haven't studied this as much as I wanted to.

Virtual dub has been recommended also. I will go back and look at those posts to see what was written, as Neo HD is not in the budget at this time.

Does anyone know if Virtual Dub will match the performance of HD Link for resizing?

Jeff Harper · February 18th, 2011, 12:56 PM

David, you suggested rendering out in uncompressed avi with Vegas, then resizing in Virtual Dub. Jim's workflow with HD Link is to take source footage and resize first. Wouldn't I want to do that with Virutual Dub? Just spitballing here...trying to clarify my options.

David, never mind, I've found Virtual Dub doesn't seem to work with HD files, so I would have to do as you said, render to uncompressed then resize.

Jeff Harper · February 18th, 2011, 01:42 PM

I rendered the video to uncompressed avi, three minute video was 33GB in size. Not very practical. I need to play with this some more.

February 17th, 2011, 09:17 AM	#17
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	It doesn't show up in the original footage, but must be exacerbated in process. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

February 17th, 2011, 10:04 AM	#19
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Great, Jim, just when I thought I had it. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

February 17th, 2011, 11:02 AM	#22
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	The flash video you see looks exactly the same as the avi file for the most part. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

February 17th, 2011, 05:10 PM	#24
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	I am. As Jim says I'm not resizing it properly. I have been away all day and will play more with it tonite, or tomorrow. Jim I will send you the clip as soon as I catch my breath and get done with dinner. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

February 17th, 2011, 07:11 PM	#25
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Jim, here the clip. Right click on it. http://cincinnativideo.net/PriceList/Cats/00012.MTS __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

February 17th, 2011, 09:10 AM	#16
Jim Forrest Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Washington DC Posts: 368	That SD looks pretty darn good. The shoestring looks like a rolling shutter effect to me. If it was a moire problem I think you would see it on the cats whiskers.

February 17th, 2011, 10:02 AM	#18
Jim Snow Trustee Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Santa Clara, CA Posts: 1,104	That isn't rolling shutter; it's interlacing artifacts as a result of resizing. That, I'm one hundred percent sure of.

February 17th, 2011, 10:10 AM	#20
Jim Snow Trustee Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Santa Clara, CA Posts: 1,104	If you can let me have a clip of the swinging thread, I will resize it for you. Important - I need the original untouched clip from the camera. A good way to do it is with Dropbox https://www.dropbox.com/ You put a file in the public folder in your Dropbox and copy the link to it and post the link. That will allow it to be downloaded by someone else. I won't be able to do it until later this evening. I am about to leave on a job.

February 17th, 2011, 01:17 PM	#23
Waldi Krasowski Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Poland Posts: 106	What is your Vegas version? For flawless HD footage editing you should use 9 or 10.

February 17th, 2011, 07:52 PM	#26
Jim Snow Trustee Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Santa Clara, CA Posts: 1,104	Hi Jeff, Here is the resized MPEG file. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8731209/0012%20resized.mpg As you can see, it's very clean. NLE's do a bad job of resizing interlaced video. They leave some pretty bad looking interlace artifacts. I used HDLink which is part of Cineform NeoHD. It does a great job as you can see. When you look at it, you are going to have a hard time believing that it's just an SD MPEG video clip. Let me know what you think. I rendered it out of Vegas as an MPEG file AFTER I resized it with Cineform HDLink. Cineform HDLink doesn't convert to MPEG. It creates a Cineform .avi file.

February 18th, 2011, 12:34 PM	#28
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	I've been offline since yesterday, glad to be back. Thanks for the imput, everyone. Guy, you were correct, as Jim was. Jim, that is perfect, VERY nice. HD link did an amazing job. Guy recommended deinterlacing in Vegas before editing, is that enough? I've been swamped with editing, time is limited, so I haven't studied this as much as I wanted to. Virtual dub has been recommended also. I will go back and look at those posts to see what was written, as Neo HD is not in the budget at this time. Does anyone know if Virtual Dub will match the performance of HD Link for resizing? __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

February 18th, 2011, 12:56 PM	#29
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	David, you suggested rendering out in uncompressed avi with Vegas, then resizing in Virtual Dub. Jim's workflow with HD Link is to take source footage and resize first. Wouldn't I want to do that with Virutual Dub? Just spitballing here...trying to clarify my options. David, never mind, I've found Virtual Dub doesn't seem to work with HD files, so I would have to do as you said, render to uncompressed then resize. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

February 18th, 2011, 01:42 PM	#30
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	I rendered the video to uncompressed avi, three minute video was 33GB in size. Not very practical. I need to play with this some more. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."