High speed subject matter with GH2? at DVinfo.net

Jeff Harper · February 12th, 2011, 02:19 PM

OK, I got a call from Coca Cola. They want me to shoot a machine that processes 1K cans of Coke a minute so they can diagnose issues with it.

Anyone tell me:

1. How fast of shutter speed will this cam go? (I'm away from my camera, which did arrive today)

2. Slowed down will this work out? Any opinions?

Brian Luce · February 12th, 2011, 02:31 PM

max shutted speed is 4000/sec.
Max frame rate is 60.

Could be wrong, I don't know much about high speed filmmaking, but I think you're a little light, at least if you want smooth slomo. 1000/minute is flying. Or, is it doing 100 cans at a time?

Bruce Watson · February 12th, 2011, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Harper

OK, I got a call from Coca Cola. They want me to shoot a machine that processes 1K cans of Coke a minute so they can diagnose issues with it.

Anyone tell me:

1. How fast of shutter speed will this cam go? (I'm away from my camera, which did arrive today)

2. Slowed down will this work out? Any opinions?

This is sorta my territory. I'm an old mechanical engineer who used to build machines like this.

Without anything more to go on besides your little bit of description of the problem and my background, I speculate that a GH2 isn't what they are after. If they want to see what the machine is actually doing while it, for example, does the deep draw operation to make the sides and bottom of the can, and it's making cans at 1000/min, or 16.67/second, you're going to want something around 1000 fps or above. And that is going to take a huge amount of lighting to sustain.

Think about renting a Phantom.

The fun part of this is how to light the parts that are interesting to them so the camera can actually see it at a shutter speed of 1/2000 or higher. There's not usually a lot of excess room for lighting inside machines like this. Also, rapid forming typically requires lubrication, and machines running this fast often fling lubricant around -- the interior of the machine while it's running can contain a lubricant "fog" which isn't good for cameras or lights. IOW, you'll want to think about how to protect the camera.

So... you might want to see the machine and talk with the engineer who's actually doing the work. Find out more explicitly what he/she really wants, before you commit to this job. Just sayin'.

Jeff Harper · February 12th, 2011, 06:13 PM

Bruce, thanks SO much for your assistance.

The line actually pushes through 1.6K cans per minute. The grease, the lighting required, I wouldn't even know where to start. This is a hugely important job for the company, they need guys with heavy industrial experience.

Theoretically I could rent the equipment, but wouldn''t know how to operate it. I've contacted a friend who is presently assembling a small team, and we're going to make a proposal on Monday.

Thanks again.

Brian Luce · February 12th, 2011, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Harper

Wow, $2500 per day for a Phantom!

This job is out my league! The line actually pushes through 1.6K cans per minute. The grease, the lighting required, I wouldn't even know where to start. This is a hugely important job for the company, they need guys with heavy industrial experience.

Theoretically I could rent the equipment, but wouldn''t know how to operate it.

If I was offered that job I wouldn't turn it down even if I didn't own a camera. You're a producer, operating the camera is just part of the job. The organization, scheduling, financing, transportation and coordination all take a competent person. Rent the camera and find an experienced operator.

Jeff Harper · February 13th, 2011, 07:38 AM

Brian, you're right. Ideally I should keep the job and manage it. However, I quoted them a price of under $1K, and now the rate will be closer to $4.5K done with rental equipment. I wasn't comfortable keeping the project after such a huge fee increase.

First mistake of quoting him a price before knowing what was required for the job was probably the best lesson of all for me. I jumped too quickly.

I did turn the project over to an acquaintance, but I will be involved a a grip. He will manage the project. He knows the lighting needed, I don't, for example, as well as the camera operator, which he will round up.

So ideally it would have been better had I maintained control of the job (for my benefit), but on the other hand this is a time-sensitive project that needs to be completed efficiently. There can be no screw-ups considering the daily rental of the camera is $2500. For the sake of the client, I think this is the best route.

I will benefit from observing someone with experience as he manages this project. I always prefer to learn by observing initially rather than on the job...it's more beneficial for all concerned in the long run, IMO.

Bruce Watson · February 13th, 2011, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Harper

The line actually pushes through 1.6K cans per minute. The grease, the lighting required, I wouldn't even know where to start.

Close to 30 cans/sec. That's moving right along.

I forgot to add that forming metal at speed converts a lot of kenetic energy into heat. And noise. Depending on the equipment and just how noisy it is, they may not be able to run it with the covers off, so access may be a problem.

Going with experts is the right approach.

Keep us posted -- I'd be interested to learn what modern equipment is used to do this these days.

Jeff Harper · February 13th, 2011, 09:29 AM

I will keep you posted Bruce, thanks!

February 12th, 2011, 02:19 PM	#1
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	High speed subject matter with GH2? OK, I got a call from Coca Cola. They want me to shoot a machine that processes 1K cans of Coke a minute so they can diagnose issues with it. Anyone tell me: 1. How fast of shutter speed will this cam go? (I'm away from my camera, which did arrive today) 2. Slowed down will this work out? Any opinions? __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

February 12th, 2011, 06:13 PM	#4
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Bruce, thanks SO much for your assistance. The line actually pushes through 1.6K cans per minute. The grease, the lighting required, I wouldn't even know where to start. This is a hugely important job for the company, they need guys with heavy industrial experience. Theoretically I could rent the equipment, but wouldn''t know how to operate it. I've contacted a friend who is presently assembling a small team, and we're going to make a proposal on Monday. Thanks again. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described." Last edited by Jeff Harper; February 12th, 2011 at 07:47 PM.

February 13th, 2011, 07:38 AM	#6
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Brian, you're right. Ideally I should keep the job and manage it. However, I quoted them a price of under $1K, and now the rate will be closer to $4.5K done with rental equipment. I wasn't comfortable keeping the project after such a huge fee increase. First mistake of quoting him a price before knowing what was required for the job was probably the best lesson of all for me. I jumped too quickly. I did turn the project over to an acquaintance, but I will be involved a a grip. He will manage the project. He knows the lighting needed, I don't, for example, as well as the camera operator, which he will round up. So ideally it would have been better had I maintained control of the job (for my benefit), but on the other hand this is a time-sensitive project that needs to be completed efficiently. There can be no screw-ups considering the daily rental of the camera is $2500. For the sake of the client, I think this is the best route. I will benefit from observing someone with experience as he manages this project. I always prefer to learn by observing initially rather than on the job...it's more beneficial for all concerned in the long run, IMO. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described." Last edited by Jeff Harper; February 13th, 2011 at 09:28 AM.

February 13th, 2011, 09:29 AM	#8
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	I will keep you posted Bruce, thanks! __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

February 12th, 2011, 02:31 PM	#2
Brian Luce Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,290	max shutted speed is 4000/sec. Max frame rate is 60. Could be wrong, I don't know much about high speed filmmaking, but I think you're a little light, at least if you want smooth slomo. 1000/minute is flying. Or, is it doing 100 cans at a time?