Micro Four Thirds - the start of low cost shallow DOF videography?

[Geoff Murrin]

AVCHD in the PH mode on the HMC-150 is recorded at 21Mbps with the maximum variable rate at 24Mbps. Wonder what it is on this Lumix?

Can't wait for people to get their hands on this. Can't wait for pricing and availability?

Can't wait for some extensive reviews.

[John Wyatt]

I'm a bit confused by the format choice of AVCHD and M-JPEG. I assume one will be better image quality than the other...Just have to wait and see.

Jon -- how does the PAL version work? Do you get 25p from 50i in the same way as some camcorders using "Segmented Progressive Frame" (SpF)?

Seems many of the stills features are carried over for video shooting. This could be a very serious contender.

[M. Gene Hoffman]

DMC-GH1 | PRODUCTS | LUMIX | Digital Camera | Panasonic Global

The video samples are teeny, but at least are something.

From what I can see, the rolling shutter seems pretty minimal. This is awesome news. Now I just want to see some full res footage!

-M

[Geoff Murrin]

DMC-GH1 | PRODUCTS | LUMIX | Digital Camera | Panasonic Global

17 Mbps. Oh well:

"Full HD 1,920 x 1,080, 60i (sensor output is 24 fps) (FHD: 17 Mbps)"

[Ethan Cooper]

I don't know much about four thirds cameras and lenses, but here are some of my initial thoughts:

1) Why don't they lock the exposure when shooting their demo footage? It's demo footage the world will judge your camera by, do it right for goodness sake.

2) It looks like they're giving you control over shutter speed and aperature so that's a plus right there.

3) The kit lens is only f4.0 to f5.8 so I'd hope you can get some faster lenses with this system.

4) Do the lenses have true manual focus rings? I'd hope so.

5) I don't like the highlight handling at all from that first clip I saw. I'll give it a pass since they mangled the thing by not locking exposure so I'll wait for better footage till I completely pass judgment.

6) Did nobody learn from Canon's brilliant marketing of the 5D MkII that great footage at the outset of a product launch generates buzz and leaves a lasting impression?

I'm sure there will be more thoughts as I keep my eye on this thing.

[Liza Witz]

Originally Posted by Geoff Murrin

"Full HD 1,920 x 1,080, 60i (sensor output is 24 fps) (FHD: 17 Mbps)"

I think that should be OK. I would have preferred 24Mbps (I would have preferred it not be AVCHD)...

[QUOTE=Ethan Cooper;1021567]3) The kit lens is only f4.0 to f5.8 so I'd hope you can get some faster lenses with this system.
[quote]

Basically, you can mount any lens ever made to this camera. Well, exagerration, but there are Leica M mount converters out there, PL mount and Arri mount, C mount -- so all those movie lenses can be used. And converters for every 35mm Lens format in common use as well.

4) Do the lenses have true manual focus rings? I'd hope so.

What do you mean by "true"? As in mechanically linked so it moves when the camera autofocuses? No. But you do have manual focus, you can turn AF off, and of course, you can use lots of manual focus lenses with adapters. (And the "fly by wire" focus of the G1 got good reviews.)

[Thomas Richter]

"The LUMIX DMC-GH1 concept goes much further than simply recording HD movies. Apart from the movie recording capability of conventional digital cameras, the DMC-GH1 also features a Creative Movie mode, which lets the user set the shutter speed and aperture manually to make even more impressive movies."

(Panasonic press release on dpreview)

seems someone has learned from Canon ;)

[Bill Koehler]

Things I do not understand:

Why did Panasonic do 24p into 60i pulldown? I understand the reasons for this when recording to TAPE, but when going to flash memory? That's just burning storage/recording time.

Disappointments:

Formats: Doesn't shoot 1920x1080i60 or 1920x1080p30.
I guess that's for next years models.

Bitrate: 17 Mbps instead of 24 Mbps, or higher, ala Canon 5D2
I guess that's for next years models.

Canon certainly demonstrated the bigger sensors+glass can put the bitrate to excellent use.

Now for someone, somewhere to post raw footage from this camera for evaluation.
It would be interesting to see how footage from this compares to Panny's own HMC-150.
That may be part of the reason it doesn't do a higher bitrate or a higher frame/field rate.
But that's pure speculation on my part.

[Mark Williams]

I was kind of hoping Panasonic would screw up and have the Gh1 record at 24Mbps like the HMC150. I just don't think 17mbps is going to cut it for my needs. Now I am hoping that since Nikon dosen't have a professional video camera line to protect they will jump out from the pack with a high quality video codec camera.

[Chris Barcellos]

I have the Canon 5d. I love its image making capability, but it would have been nice to have the fold out LCD this camera has.

[Evan C. King]

Has anyone here groaning about 17 vs 24 bit even done a comparison before? The difference isn't that great, in fast action the extra bits help but it isn't day and night. Besides think of the price point and intended market. If it's video footage is at least as good as the D90 with less rolling shutter then at the price point it's already done it's job.

[Mark Williams]

I have compared the two rates and I can see the difference in fast moving scenes which is what I shoot. I would have thought that at least one DSLR combo cam manufacturer would have tried to trump or meet the quality of the Canon 5D MarkII codec. The GH1 has a lot of great control features that the 5D does not, and is a definite improvement in that respect, but unless it can deliver a close or superior image to the 5d then I don't think it could be considered a professional piece of equipment. Combining the best features of the GH1 and 5D would be a real winner.

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by John Wyatt

I'm a bit confused by the format choice of AVCHD and M-JPEG. I assume one will be better image quality than the other...Just have to wait and see.

M-JPEG offers 720p30 which although less space efficient than AVCHD, is much easier to edit. The 1080i60 and 720p60 are going to need a minimum of a 2.66GHz QUAD core to playback smoothly.

Otherwise, you'll have to convert to an intermediate codec.

By the way, don't know how many AVCHD products support 720p60. Maybe none.

Removing 2-3 pulldown may not be supported by any AVCHD products. Of course, 60i can be edited even with 2-3 pulldown -- just not the best option.

PS: Also critical is what audio codec is used with M-JPEG. A lot of NLEs will not like M-JPEG with AC3. They want PCM. Bottom-line, with the ability set shutter-speed, 720p30 may be the best option. Of course, we still don't know the data-rate. I'll try to get sample on Weds.

[Bill Koehler]

Mark,

I wouldn't expect anyone to try and match the Canon 5D2 codec.
Reason? These are consumer market products, so expectations are going to be 24 Mbps, tops.

Canon, in pushing their codec to ~42 Mbps, is clearly playing in pro territory.

[Liza Witz]

Originally Posted by Bill Koehler

Why did Panasonic do 24p into 60i pulldown?

Because the camera puts out video over the HDMI port. So, I believe they do this so that they can send the same stream out the port as they are recording to flash. [/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

The 1080i60 and 720p60 are going to need a minimum of a 2.66GHz QUAD core to playback smoothly.

I'm able to play back H.264 720/60p and 1080/60i on my 2.4Ghz Core2Duo. But maybe there are some dropped frames I'm not noticing.

Removing 2-3 pulldown may not be supported by any AVCHD products.

As I understand it, the canons that shoot 24p record it as 60i as well, or some of them do. After conversion, you have the original 24p without loss of quality.

Originally Posted by Bill Koehler

Canon, in pushing their codec to ~42 Mbps, is clearly playing in pro territory.

Well, 42Mbps MJPEG is probably about equal quality to 21Mbps H.264. So the 17MBps of this camera doesn't seem that much lower quality. (Am I right in thinking the 5D records video as MJPEG? Their site is vague.)