LUMIX FZ1000 user update

Roger Gunkel · September 20th, 2015, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Harding

Nice to have you back Roger

Had two weddings this weekend and the cameras worked very well ..no issues at all!!

How are you getting on with the stills compared to the Nikons?

Roger

Andrew Maclaurin · September 20th, 2015, 07:34 AM

Welcome back Roger.
I have found this to be a very informative thread. Never be afraid to give opinion or advice no matter what others might say. There will always be people who can take something useful from these opinions even if they don't post. It also true that people can end up arguing without really meaning to in forums on the internet.
Whilst the camera is not for me, it must be very tempting to many people due to the price and performance

Roger Gunkel · September 20th, 2015, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Maclaurin

Welcome back Roger.
I have found this to be a very informative thread. Never be afraid to give opinion or advice no matter what others might say. There will always be people who can take something useful from these opinions even if they don't post. It also true that people can end up arguing without really meaning to in forums on the internet.
Whilst the camera is not for me, it must be very tempting to many people due to the price and performance

Thanks Andrew,
Both the FZ1000 and RX10 are going to appeal to very similar users, with the Panny having the greater telephoto range and the Sony having the constant 2.8 aperture across the smaller zoom range. I liked the constant 2.8 on my FZ200 cams, but the 2/3 sensor made it lose a lot in low light. Those that prefer the look of one make over another, or have other cams of the same make will probably choose accordingly.

Roger

Chris Harding · September 20th, 2015, 08:19 AM

Hi Roger

Slightly off topic but I staying with the Nikons for indoor stuff and using both the Nikon and FZ for outdoor shoots ... Still need to find a TTL flash for the Pannys

Steve Burkett · September 20th, 2015, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Harding

. One would expect an APSC camera like the EA-50 to be technically better in low light than a 1" sensor so I guess the signal processing is a whole lot better??

Your comment recalls my experience with the GH3 when I first used it in conjunction with the Canon 60d I already owned. I expected to continue using the 60d for indoors whilst using the GH3 for run n gun as I had the GH2. I was quite surprised to see the GH3 outperform the 60d in low-light despite the smaller sensor and the Canon was sold on soon after.

If I was jumping from the 60d to the FZ1000, I'd expect I'd be mightily impressed by low light performance and image quality in general. Coming from the inbetween upgrades of the GH3 and 4, obviously this alters my perspective. Not sure how old your ea50s are, but image quality has come a long way in the last few years.

Ultimately how users respond to the FZ1000's low light will depend on what they're currently using now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Gunkel

Having decided to withdraw from DV info 3 days ago, I have been persuaded to do a U-turn by several very kind, persuasive and supportive emails from members.

It's a roller coaster this thread. :)

Colin Rowe · September 20th, 2015, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Gunkel

Contrary to suggestions, I did not withdraw because of others disagreeing with my views or being over sensitive, but because I felt that a number of comments on this and previous fz1000 threads were becoming very personal and sometimes mocking.

Totally agree Roger. Welcome back

Dave Blackhurst · September 20th, 2015, 09:12 PM

Bottom line is that for the price, there are some pretty impressive cameras... pluses and minuses, of course...

It took a long time for Chris H to get the Sony areas rearranged, so as one "orphaned category" to another, you're more than welcome to discuss the FZ1000 over under the threads on the Sony RX10... as far as I'm thinking, they are very similar cameras in "focus" and concept - so sort of fit together better than the ILC class cameras. Us outcasts gotta stick together!

FWIW, I've found that dropping shutter speed to 30 can bring up low light in a pinch, not sure how the FZ operates, but since 4K is 30p anyway, it seems to be workable. Maybe not ideal. but one way to squeeze a little more out of the darkness.

There are some "tricks" that are universal, and others that are brand specific, in the end the only thing that counts is that you got the shot, and didn't tear your hair out getting it... regardless of the label on the front or how much you spent!

Chris Harding · September 20th, 2015, 10:06 PM

Hi Dave

I know my Sony EA-50's defaulted to 1/25th in 25P mode (in your case it would be 1/30th and 30P) so I'm assuming the bride cameras (both Sony and Panasonic) would do that indoors? I don't seem to have any motion blur even with the dancing but then again it's a wedding so they just don't go wild! 25P seems to work pretty well both indoors and out plus I'm used to shooting in 25P as my Sony's used to give me a bit of posterization if any area was over-exposed and you were shooting 50P so I normally just use 50P for my stedicam shoot. The FZ has a beautiful 100fps slomo mode but when you start recording it locks the exposure so I cannot do my "roundie rounds" with the stedicam as I usually do a full 360 circle around the couple and try to get a sunburst on the way .... fixed exposure just blows out totally as I get to the bright section and stopping and restarting the camera spoils the flow totally. That's a big bummer as I was hoping to use the slomo feature for bridal shoots on stedicam!!

Roger Gunkel · September 21st, 2015, 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Blackhurst

Bottom line is that for the price, there are some pretty impressive cameras... pluses and minuses, of course...

It took a long time for Chris H to get the Sony areas rearranged, so as one "orphaned category" to another, you're more than welcome to discuss the FZ1000 over under the threads on the Sony RX10... as far as I'm thinking, they are very similar cameras in "focus" and concept - so sort of fit together better than the ILC class cameras. Us outcasts gotta stick together!

FWIW, I've found that dropping shutter speed to 30 can bring up low light in a pinch, not sure how the FZ operates, but since 4K is 30p anyway, it seems to be workable. Maybe not ideal. but one way to squeeze a little more out of the darkness.

There are some "tricks" that are universal, and others that are brand specific, in the end the only thing that counts is that you got the shot, and didn't tear your hair out getting it... regardless of the label on the front or how much you spent!

Hi Dave,

That could be a good intermediate compromise until a new category is available :-)

I've been experimenting with 25fps and 50fps (pal land) to see what differences I can find, no hard and fast conclusions yet though. I probably need to set up a fixed shot and switch from one to the other to really see the difference.

Roger

Roger Gunkel · September 21st, 2015, 04:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colin Rowe

Totally agree Roger. Welcome back

Hi Colin,

How did you get on with your 'out of retirement' wedding?

Roger

Paul Mailath · September 21st, 2015, 05:43 AM

Whoah boys! - I don't check in for a while and there's been a fair bit of verbal biffo - let's relax.

I had an FZ200 as a backup cam and found it great, I got the FZ1000 and now have 2. I always have a 2nd shooter and we each have one hangng off the belt.

I've used them for bride & groom prep and they are great, I find the GH4 with FD lenses gives me a an image I like more - but the ease of using the FZ1000 really makes it a hard decision.

During ceremonies we both have the GH4 and the FZ1000 as a backup cam - it's great to be able to leave the GH4 on a fixed closeup and grab the FZ1000 for a quick shot of the MOB tearing up.

Up till sundown I feel I could get away with using the FZ1000 as the only camera, no problem.

In dim receptions I have a problem, maybe it's my settings but given a choice between a GH4 with my FD 85mm F1.2 ans the FZ1000 it's no contest.

I'll try to do some direct comparisions and put them up.

Roger Gunkel · September 21st, 2015, 07:28 AM

I still have a pair of FZ200s that I use for quick grabs occasionally and it was those cameras that influenced me to get the FZ1000s.

I'm sure the f1.2 lens on the G4 will give you far more low light options probably about the time I would consider using extra light for the FZ1000. I have found that my receptions so far haven't given me any low light problems, but the next one could just turn out to be candlelight!

A G4 with lenses is a way to go for a number of users on the forum, but not suitable for me, partly for cost, but also because working solo most of the time I want the speed and convenience that the FZ1000 gives me, rather than different lenses, which some prefer of course. One man's meat etc.

Roger

Chris Harding · September 21st, 2015, 08:08 AM

Hi Paul

It's just common sense that a GH4 with it's bigger sensor and fast F1.2 lens will be a low light killer ...At our receptions I can mange everything except when they really dim the lights for the first dance to crazy levels and then, of course the video light is a necessity!

A GH4 and 85mm F1.2 is also likely to cost a whole heap more. We seldom have candle light receptions like Noa often has and if we did I too would opt for a GH4 and a very fast lens.

At 85mm at F1.2 don't you struggle with DOF? The GH4 has a crop factor of 2X right?? so that makes the lens a 35mm equivalent of 170mm ....you must have to be an awfully long way from the people to shoot with that?? On the FZ I seldom move off 25mm and at F2.8 I do have a reasonably big DOF to work with so it's easy! I tried a 50mm Sony F1.8 on my camera once during the dancing and everything was just too close to work with ...at that was a 35mm equivalent of 75mm only and I really struggled!!

Steve Burkett · September 21st, 2015, 10:21 AM

Using fast primes for low light isn't just about capturing a visible image, it's about capturing one with as minimum noise as possible. I've just spent the day going around castles with my GH4 and 2.8 zoom lens. The image acquired was quite visible and clear but nothing at all like the quality I can get with a fast prime. Colour and detail look considerably better when ISO is kept lower.

As Chris is right to point out, it comes at the cost of a narrow DOF and tough focusing, and as Roger says, carrying a lot of lenses. However there is a clear difference in the kind of videos we all offer. For me, I'm trying for something more artistic or cinematic, whichever term best fits. Using sliders, jibs and gimbal along with primes to capture the day with an eye for a good looking image. Others favour a more documentary approach and the criteria of gear will differ accordingly.

Ultimately we choose for our needs and budget. Suggesting the FZ1000 isn't suitable for my needs is not a suggestion it isn't suitable for Wedding filming. That rather falls down to your style and methods of filming.

Michael Silverman · September 21st, 2015, 02:05 PM

I don't have a FZ1000 and don't plan on buying one, but I did find this footage which I thought looked pretty impressive for a camera with its price tag:

I could see the 120fps being very useful as long as there's lots of light. Even if you didn't use it as an A or B camera, you could still get some shots in 120fps that would be pretty spectacular.

September 20th, 2015, 07:34 AM	#47
Andrew Maclaurin Major Player Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 396	Re: LUMIX FZ1000 user update Welcome back Roger. I have found this to be a very informative thread. Never be afraid to give opinion or advice no matter what others might say. There will always be people who can take something useful from these opinions even if they don't post. It also true that people can end up arguing without really meaning to in forums on the internet. Whilst the camera is not for me, it must be very tempting to many people due to the price and performance

September 20th, 2015, 08:19 AM	#49
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: LUMIX FZ1000 user update Hi Roger Slightly off topic but I staying with the Nikons for indoor stuff and using both the Nikon and FZ for outdoor shoots ... Still need to find a TTL flash for the Pannys

September 20th, 2015, 09:12 PM	#52
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	Re: LUMIX FZ1000 user update Bottom line is that for the price, there are some pretty impressive cameras... pluses and minuses, of course... It took a long time for Chris H to get the Sony areas rearranged, so as one "orphaned category" to another, you're more than welcome to discuss the FZ1000 over under the threads on the Sony RX10... as far as I'm thinking, they are very similar cameras in "focus" and concept - so sort of fit together better than the ILC class cameras. Us outcasts gotta stick together! FWIW, I've found that dropping shutter speed to 30 can bring up low light in a pinch, not sure how the FZ operates, but since 4K is 30p anyway, it seems to be workable. Maybe not ideal. but one way to squeeze a little more out of the darkness. There are some "tricks" that are universal, and others that are brand specific, in the end the only thing that counts is that you got the shot, and didn't tear your hair out getting it... regardless of the label on the front or how much you spent!

September 20th, 2015, 10:06 PM	#53
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: LUMIX FZ1000 user update Hi Dave I know my Sony EA-50's defaulted to 1/25th in 25P mode (in your case it would be 1/30th and 30P) so I'm assuming the bride cameras (both Sony and Panasonic) would do that indoors? I don't seem to have any motion blur even with the dancing but then again it's a wedding so they just don't go wild! 25P seems to work pretty well both indoors and out plus I'm used to shooting in 25P as my Sony's used to give me a bit of posterization if any area was over-exposed and you were shooting 50P so I normally just use 50P for my stedicam shoot. The FZ has a beautiful 100fps slomo mode but when you start recording it locks the exposure so I cannot do my "roundie rounds" with the stedicam as I usually do a full 360 circle around the couple and try to get a sunburst on the way .... fixed exposure just blows out totally as I get to the bright section and stopping and restarting the camera spoils the flow totally. That's a big bummer as I was hoping to use the slomo feature for bridal shoots on stedicam!!

September 21st, 2015, 05:43 AM	#56
Paul Mailath Trustee Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Central Coast - NSW, Australia Posts: 1,606	Re: LUMIX FZ1000 user update Whoah boys! - I don't check in for a while and there's been a fair bit of verbal biffo - let's relax. I had an FZ200 as a backup cam and found it great, I got the FZ1000 and now have 2. I always have a 2nd shooter and we each have one hangng off the belt. I've used them for bride & groom prep and they are great, I find the GH4 with FD lenses gives me a an image I like more - but the ease of using the FZ1000 really makes it a hard decision. During ceremonies we both have the GH4 and the FZ1000 as a backup cam - it's great to be able to leave the GH4 on a fixed closeup and grab the FZ1000 for a quick shot of the MOB tearing up. Up till sundown I feel I could get away with using the FZ1000 as the only camera, no problem. In dim receptions I have a problem, maybe it's my settings but given a choice between a GH4 with my FD 85mm F1.2 ans the FZ1000 it's no contest. I'll try to do some direct comparisions and put them up. __________________ Cheers - Paul M. www.perbenyik.com

September 21st, 2015, 07:28 AM	#57
Roger Gunkel Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: LIncolnshire, UK Posts: 2,213	Re: LUMIX FZ1000 user update I still have a pair of FZ200s that I use for quick grabs occasionally and it was those cameras that influenced me to get the FZ1000s. I'm sure the f1.2 lens on the G4 will give you far more low light options probably about the time I would consider using extra light for the FZ1000. I have found that my receptions so far haven't given me any low light problems, but the next one could just turn out to be candlelight! A G4 with lenses is a way to go for a number of users on the forum, but not suitable for me, partly for cost, but also because working solo most of the time I want the speed and convenience that the FZ1000 gives me, rather than different lenses, which some prefer of course. One man's meat etc. Roger

September 21st, 2015, 08:08 AM	#58
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: LUMIX FZ1000 user update Hi Paul It's just common sense that a GH4 with it's bigger sensor and fast F1.2 lens will be a low light killer ...At our receptions I can mange everything except when they really dim the lights for the first dance to crazy levels and then, of course the video light is a necessity! A GH4 and 85mm F1.2 is also likely to cost a whole heap more. We seldom have candle light receptions like Noa often has and if we did I too would opt for a GH4 and a very fast lens. At 85mm at F1.2 don't you struggle with DOF? The GH4 has a crop factor of 2X right?? so that makes the lens a 35mm equivalent of 170mm ....you must have to be an awfully long way from the people to shoot with that?? On the FZ I seldom move off 25mm and at F2.8 I do have a reasonably big DOF to work with so it's easy! I tried a 50mm Sony F1.8 on my camera once during the dancing and everything was just too close to work with ...at that was a 35mm equivalent of 75mm only and I really struggled!!

September 21st, 2015, 10:21 AM	#59
Steve Burkett Trustee Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Romsey, UK Posts: 1,261	Re: LUMIX FZ1000 user update Using fast primes for low light isn't just about capturing a visible image, it's about capturing one with as minimum noise as possible. I've just spent the day going around castles with my GH4 and 2.8 zoom lens. The image acquired was quite visible and clear but nothing at all like the quality I can get with a fast prime. Colour and detail look considerably better when ISO is kept lower. As Chris is right to point out, it comes at the cost of a narrow DOF and tough focusing, and as Roger says, carrying a lot of lenses. However there is a clear difference in the kind of videos we all offer. For me, I'm trying for something more artistic or cinematic, whichever term best fits. Using sliders, jibs and gimbal along with primes to capture the day with an eye for a good looking image. Others favour a more documentary approach and the criteria of gear will differ accordingly. Ultimately we choose for our needs and budget. Suggesting the FZ1000 isn't suitable for my needs is not a suggestion it isn't suitable for Wedding filming. That rather falls down to your style and methods of filming.

September 21st, 2015, 02:05 PM	#60
Michael Silverman Major Player Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Charlottesville Posts: 255	Re: LUMIX FZ1000 user update I don't have a FZ1000 and don't plan on buying one, but I did find this footage which I thought looked pretty impressive for a camera with its price tag: PANASONIC FZ1000 4K & SLOWMOTION 120FPS CINE V SETTING RAW FOOTAGE - YouTube I could see the 120fps being very useful as long as there's lots of light. Even if you didn't use it as an A or B camera, you could still get some shots in 120fps that would be pretty spectacular.