Panasonic LUMIX FZ1000 announced with 4K recording

[Anthony Lelli]

Originally Posted by Dave Blackhurst

My shoe adapter for the AX100 is 100% solid METAL, cannot short anything, and is as sturdy as possible, I presume the MiShoe is part of a metal subframe, so I'm fairly confident in the way my adapter works! I only referred to older plastic adapters for the AiS.

Dave,
sorry I didn't answer to the shoe adapter since I was fairly upset with the lanc thing. You should be fine with your adapter if it's tight. I remember that the SR11 shoe had a "play" (the shoe itself had that play, didn';t matter how tight I screwed the adapter on it. and that most likely caused the shorts. Just make sure that the adapter sits tight with no "play" and you should be just fine. After all a word of caution may help to prevent troubles. Just be careful, that's all.

[Dave Blackhurst]

I was pointing out that no matter how critical you or I may feel the remote function is, I'd venture that 90%+ of cameras sold NEVER see a wired remote - maybe the wireless one, but that's enough for most people - I've even used it as a kludge in a pinch. There's just not a lot of money there... despite what you or I might think! And if there is, a Chinese knockoff will hit the market within 60-90 days... especially with accessories!

And while I'm glad to hear that the cheap Vivitar remote works well (will have to look it up, thanks!). as you've discovered the LANC implementation can be pretty "varied". This has been my experience as well. It's up to us end users to sort out what works and what doesn't, and there's not a lot of options, either OEM or aftermarket! Find one that works for you with your rig, and go with it!

The camcorder market has already experienced (along with the point and shoot market niche) a MASSIVE reduction in sales, and it's not getting better. This means where 10 years ago a manufacturer could afford R&D, engineering, tooling and manufacture costs, and have a decent chance of selling enough units to make that sunk cost back and a profit. Now? Not so much.

You keep ascribing some "plot" to the manufacturers that is related (I guess) to supposedly raking in huge profits through market/feature manipulation... I'd argue they are just struggling to survive...


There's zero "play" in the foot the way I modded it, it clamps VERY tight to the metal frame, which should be attached to the camera metal subframe in a typical Sony. I had some concern about shorts, but it turns out that the contacts are ever so slightly recessed below the molded plastic, and once you notch/key the part of the foot that goes into the front (contact area) of the socket AND thin it out enough to clear the molded area, nothing to worry about! You end up with a lot of clamp surface once that "tongue" is machined to fit.

We probably should move back to the AX100 thread for further discussion, I think you'll find the AX100 to be a good video camera, it does take a little to get the most out of, so don't panic if you hit some bumps, don't be surprised, I expect early FZ1000 adopters will discover some "fun" with 4K too...

But it's worth it!

[Steve Struthers]

Originally Posted by Anthony Lelli

Mark
you understand that I shoot with a Sony camera, right?

yes, the 30min. limitation is absurd and plain ridiculous. I already said that, several times, and here I'll say it again. No excuses for Panasonic for coming up with that horrendous trick. Disgusting. they had to "copy" the RX10. shame on Panasonic.

Not excusing Panasonic here, but I wonder if the 30 minute limitation was a deliberate attempt to satisfy the requirements of the EU market, where cameras that can record more than 30 minutes are classed as camcorders and higher taxes are levied on the camera as a result.

[Steve Struthers]

Originally Posted by Dave Blackhurst

I was pointing out that no matter how critical you or I may feel the remote function is, I'd venture that 90%+ of cameras sold NEVER see a wired remote - maybe the wireless one, but that's enough for most people - I've even used it as a kludge in a pinch. There's just not a lot of money there... despite what you or I might think! And if there is, a Chinese knockoff will hit the market within 60-90 days... especially with accessories!

<snip>

The camcorder market has already experienced (along with the point and shoot market niche) a MASSIVE reduction in sales, and it's not getting better. This means where 10 years ago a manufacturer could afford R&D, engineering, tooling and manufacture costs, and have a decent chance of selling enough units to make that sunk cost back and a profit. Now? Not so much.

You keep ascribing some "plot" to the manufacturers that is related (I guess) to supposedly raking in huge profits through market/feature manipulation... I'd argue they are just struggling to survive...

<snip>

Although the quoted and highlighted part of your post is something that could probably be discussed in another thread, I'd like to weigh in and offer my opinion on what is happening here. Camcorder sales are dropping for a number of reasons:

1) There are too many camcorders on the market, with each manufacturer offering umpteen different 'flavours'. Digital SLRs and other still cameras with video recording capabilities also militate against greater camcorder sales because they partially cannibalize the market for camcorders.

2) Most people who would normally buy a cheap, low-end camcorder are taking the 'good enough' route and shooting their videos with iPads, iPhones and Android devices with similar capabilities. Sure, this reinforces the phenomenon of crap videos you see on Youtube, but most consumers really don't know how to use their camcorders properly, and they don't care to learn. They just want something that lets them capture a moment on the fly. Most are also not willing to absorb the extra expense and hassle of buying yet another device just to get arguably better sound and picture quality.

3) Consumers are broke, and with the way the global economy is going, people are becoming progressively less able to spend on anything but necessities. This means they are going to be keeping their existing camcorders longer, if they have one.

I think part of the overall problem too, is that the market is jaded with the feature-itis the manufacturers are coming out with all the time in an effort to keep sales stoked up. In other
words, they perceive it as gimmick after gimmick with little real value loaded into the transaction.

Right now, I think 4K is still somewhat of a gimmick in the camcorder arena, since most people don't have TV sets that can properly reproduce 4K video. I've seen what 4K looks like on a 4K TV, and it is simply stunning, provided that you have excellent-quality source material to display. The average highly compressed cable TV signal is going to look like crap on such a TV set, yet this is what most consumers have to work with. 4K has potential, and it's what 1080p HD video should have been, but broadcasters weren't willing to invest the money needed to upgrade their infrastructure properly so that they could broadcast a real 1080p signal. If they weren't willing to make that kind of investment in 1080p, what makes anyone think they will invest in 4K?

[Peter Siamidis]

Originally Posted by Steve Struthers

2) Most people who would normally buy a cheap, low-end camcorder are taking the 'good enough' route and shooting their videos with iPads, iPhones and Android devices with similar capabilities. Sure, this reinforces the phenomenon of crap videos you see on Youtube, but most consumers really don't know how to use their camcorders properly, and they don't care to learn. They just want something that lets them capture a moment on the fly.

I don't think it's so much that they don't care, but that they use what they have with them. I have an AX100 that I use for my websites business, but the reality is that outside of business use I never use it, and I exclusively use my phone to take videos and pictures. Does the quality look as good? Definitely not. However my Nokia 1520 is with me 100% of the time and is always there to video a memorable situation, whereas my AX100 never is. Simple as that, hence why even though the quality isn't as good, personally I find that large camcorders are slowly becoming useless for personal use because they are not likely to be around when the moment to record strikes whereas someones phone always is. Uber quality video recording is useless if the device isn't with me, and it simply never is.

Originally Posted by Steve Struthers

Right now, I think 4K is still somewhat of a gimmick in the camcorder arena, since most people don't have TV sets that can properly reproduce 4K video.

I don't think this matters as much anymore. Maybe my case is different for everyone else, but by and large most people I know show off their pictures and videos on their ultrabooks, tablets and phones. I don't know of anyone, family or friend, that says 'hey check out this video' and has everyone sit around the family tv. That just never happens in my world. Ultrabooks, tablets, etc, all have had > 1080p resolution for a long time now and that's what gets used to show people videos and pictures. Incidentally that's also why I switched to filming entirely in 4k because I think it's actually very important and people are switching to it more rapidly than some realize because some keep using the traditional tv as the basline metric, which I don't feel is the correct way to look at it anymore. Heck the analytics on my websites which get millions of hits a year show that 28% of my users access my websites with a tablet or a phone. Not a Roku, game console, or some other device hooked to a tv, but a tablet or phone. That's quite amazing given that it was 0% not all that long ago, things are shifting fast.

[Phil Goetz]

Consider ordering the camera from Omega Broadcast. Click below:


Panasonic LUMIX DMC-FZ1000K

[Ken Ross]

Steve, even if you don't have a 4K monitor or UHD TV, the down rez 'd 4K> HD looks far better than any HD camera you're likely to use.

So, it's far from a 'gimmick' even for those with only an HD display. Additionally, the gorgeous 4K can be archived for future use whenever you get a 4K display.

[Bruce Dempsey]

which brings up the archiving of 4k issue
Man I have about 20tb of hd and a similar amount of SD stored on dvd
What in heaven's name will we use to hold onto 4k?
I read Sony and Panasonic are working on enormous capacity Blu-Ray bring em on and quick

[Peter Siamidis]

Originally Posted by Bruce Dempsey

which brings up the archiving of 4k issue
Man I have about 20tb of hd and a similar amount of SD stored on dvd
What in heaven's name will we use to hold onto 4k?
I read Sony and Panasonic are working on enormous capacity Blu-Ray bring em on and quick

I use a combination of 50gb blurays and 2tb hdd's. After a shoot I burn the footage to a 50gb bluray, and copy it to two different 2tb hdd's. I store the blurays and one of the hdd's at one bank, and the other hdd at another bank. Once that 2tb hdd is full I get another set of two, rinse and repeat. I use portable usb 3.0 hdd's that don't need external power and are very small. That's also why I love that the AX100 records at 60mbps with a pretty good codec, it makes archiving much easier than 240mbps prores and the like. At 100mbps the FZ1000 will take more space, but it's still doable. I've been managing my archives this way for many years now, it's relatively cheap and easy to do and lets me sleep at night knowing my stuff is archived at two separate location on two separate storage types, optical and magnetic.

[J. Stephen McDonald]

Originally Posted by Bruce Dempsey

which brings up the archiving of 4k issue
Man I have about 20tb of hd and a similar amount of SD stored on dvd
What in heaven's name will we use to hold onto 4k?
I read Sony and Panasonic are working on enormous capacity Blu-Ray bring em on and quick

Shoot less and more selectively. Save only whatever 4K turns out good enough to have value at that resolution. Down-convert the rest.

[Bruce Dempsey]

Originally Posted by J. Stephen McDonald

Shoot less and more selectively. Save only whatever 4K turns out good enough to have value at that resolution. Down-convert the rest.

For "cinema' cameraman that will work however when filming 3 day a figureskating competition or a bunch of 3 hour convocation videos there is no discretionary shooting. You must get it all and no mistakes or retakes. Consequently archiving a single competition which might have involved 100gb shot at 1440x1082i 16bitrate will now be near tb or more so it adds up over the years.
(note to self: must try to resell some of that old footage as the participants or their kin might be re-interested in footage of themselves from 10yrs ago)

[Bruce Dempsey]

Sony RX10 versus Panasonic FZ1000

[Bruce Dempsey]

The Seiki 39 arrived this morning a full 3 weeks ahead of the fz1000 ...going to make the wait even harder
Say ...did anyone notice the 300 dollar price drop on the other cam. Makes you wonder if they might have been gouging just a bit.. Watch that backlash if I know anything about public relations,

[Steve Struthers]

Yeah, I noticed the price drop too when I visited the B&H website - the Sony RX10 is now selling for $999 (about $1250 in Canadian dollars at current exchange rates).

Gouging? Sony always gouge whenever they can get away with it. It looks like Canadian retailers haven't got wind of the Panasonic FZ1000 yet, because they're still asking $1300 to $1500 for it ($1100 to $1300 USD). Or they're just playing dumb. Canadian retailers are particularly notorious for gouging consumers, because they demand at least half again what stuff sells for in the US, even when the dollar is trading at par.

The RZ10 looks like a fantastic camera, but what happens if you need a telephoto length longer than 200mm? And you can't shoot any wider than 24mm because the lens is fixed.

[Ken Ross]

Steve, Sony does not have a lock on 'price gouging'. If you're equating price gouging with the price that early adopters pay, well, nobody is forcing anyone to buy products upon their initial release.

Panasonic, Canon, all of them do the same thing. There's nothing unique about Sony's approach.