The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread

[Peter Riding]

Originally Posted by Alan Christensen

I have been using 3 TM900's for the last two years to shoot events. They work great except for one thing. When the camera is recording continuously and has to start a new file (after the prior file has reached 4GB), there is a sizeable dropout on the audio and a bunch of duplicated frames in the video. The camera does create the correct number of frames as it transitions from one file to another such that the multiple cameras will stay in sync. However, the audio dropout is a problem if you are recording a concert and end up with a hole in the audio. The 4 frozen video frames that you get at the junction of the files is also a problem if you have fast action as viewers will notice it. However, with video you typically have multiple camera angles and can avoid the video with the glitch at that point in time. The audio is more of a problem as I have different types of mikes on the various cameras and substituting in audio from camera2 to plug a hole in camera1's audio doesn't end up with a great result. I have always shot events in 1080/60p because of the flexibility that it gives me in post. It just occurred to me that the problem might be less severe in 60i as the camera processor might have less work to do. However, this wouldn't be a great solution anyway because I really like the 60p.

I am looking to add a 4th camera as I am moving towards using more static cameras and fewer manned cameras. I really like the intelligent exposure on the TM900 as it keeps from blowing out areas of the stage that are under brighter light when I am zoomed back. I'd like to get a new camera that has this same capability, that can be easily color matched to my existing cameras, and that fixes the audio glitch at the file junction.

Does anyone have experience with the TM900 follow-on cameras that would shed light on whether or not Panny fixed the audio issue with the new cameras? For critical events today I use a PD-170 to record the audio track. But this is a hassle to set up, synchronize, and download the tapes. Any thoughts of a new camera that can be matched with my current cams and that solves my audio issue? Something that doesn't break the bank...

Alan, your problems are probably caused by the method by which you bring the files into your PC and import into your NLE.

With AVCHD you must follow a very specific workflow.

There are also white papers by Panasonic such as this one for Sony Vegas Pro:

ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/pub/panasoni...te%20paper.pdf

I also use 3 x TM900's but I always also use standalone audio recorders so it wasn't really an issue for me but I discovered the above - which everyone else already seemed to know - when exploring the workflow for the AC90.

The AC90 is much larger than the TM900 family but still fairly discreet. I also use the TM900 intelligent exposure / backlight compensation feature a great deal. The AC90 has a similar function but it is a little more usable because you can allocate backlight compensation to a physical user button and toggle it on and off mid-shoot.

Pete

[Alan Christensen]

Thanks for the response. I will try the special AVCHD importing process. I have been simply copying the .mts files onto my computer, importing them into Premiere, and then butting them up against each other in the timeline.

I find it absolutely bizarre that there needs to be a special import process for spanned files. Why not simply make the files continuations of each other? And where the heck is the missing audio that doesn't appear in either file? Cutting out the frames with missing audio and butting them together leaves a glitch. (So where the heck are the missing audio frames if not in either file?) And there are more frames with missing audio than there are frames with missing video at the junction. It absolutely doesn't make sense that somehow these files can be stitched back together in a way that is both video and audio contiguous. (Of course it probably would make sense if I fully understood the compression scheme that was being used...)

I would point out that it will be annoying and a hassle to copy the entire private folder onto my computer every time that I want to download clips. My SD cards often contain files from multiple filmings, some of which I have already downloaded and some of which I have yet to download. I will need to look at the directory structure to determine if there are files contained elsewhere in the private directory that contain metadata about the spanning or if the .mts files simply need to be in a directory structure with the appropriate names in order for Premiere to sort out that the files are spanned and then handle them appropriately.

In any event, it sounds like there is a solution to my audio glitches at the boundaries of files even though it sounds like a hassle from a workflow perspective.

Thanks for responding,

Alan

[Guy Caplin]

I would like to point out that this problem is not unique to Panasonic AVCHD files. All systems using concatenated file structures that I have come across, need the user to import the media in a specific manner to avoid the problems that you have been having.

I would suggest that you do not keep adding new media to cards. After each section of a project or after each day's filming, I transfer the entire contents of the card to a laptop and or external drive. Once the media transferred is checked, then the card is reformatted prior to re-use. Also, if you are shooting more than one project at the same time or in the same location, use different cards for each sequence. The cards are not expensive, and will save you a lot of hassle.

[Alan Christensen]

I guess I will have to change my workflow to deal with this new way of importing files into Premiere. In the past I have kept the files on the SD card until I had finished editing the project and delivered the project. This just gave me a "no extra work involved" emergency backup of the original files if I had a computer meltdown during the editing process, or if I discovered something hadn't downloaded properly.

Given that I sometimes have 3 projects going at once, I could (as you suggest), buy 6 more 64GB cards at about $50 each and use one set of cards for each project. (Actually 9 more cards if I get a 4th cam)

A second alternative would be to copy the Private folder to several different computers after every filming, then re-format the card. This would give me redundancy at the expense of disk drive space and duplicate downloads.

I could also keep with my current approach of leaving multiple events on the card for a while and simply copy the entire contents of the card every time I download. This gives redundancy at the expense of disk drive space and download time.

A fourth possibility would be to determine the ancillary files that contain the metadata for the spanned clips and that allow Premiere to recognize the spanned clips as such. I could then download these specific files along with the .mts files and place them in the appropriate directory structure. However, this would be a hassle and might lead to errors.

My guess is that I'll go with the second alternative and download the Private folder to multiple computers and then re-format the card after each filming.

Bit of a hassle but it does solve the problem.

Thanks again for your help with this issue.

BTW, I'm still in the market for a 4th cam that can be matched up with my TM900's. It needs "intelligent exposure" to deal with varying lighting conditions. It needs to have the same picture quality as the TM900's but doesn't need all of the features as it will always be in a static position simply covering part of the stage. I'd like to minimize the amount of money that I spend on this camera. Any thoughts?

Alan

[Luc Spencer]

Thanks guys for enlightening me as to what the correct method of importing footage into Premiere is. I was wondering why Premiere wasn't recognizing the AVCHD format in the Media Browser... now I know I was doing it wrong.

I just logged in to rage. I have a shot of the bride's beautiful bouquet that I'm zooming in on, and the TM900 decides to CONSTANTLY shift focus, it goes absolutely WILD.

I noticed this happening -whenever- I zoom in/out slowly, for some reason the camera just goes nuts. The problem is worse if you have little lights in your shot, such as one of those old church chandeliers with lots of candle-shaped light bulbs on it. Filmed one of those as well and while the chandelier itself was a pleasure to look at, the constantly changing focus ruined it. I am always using MF from now on, even though it's not quite easy to get a steady macro shot without using both hands to keep the TM900 in place. I find it produces shaky video even with its awesome stabilizer, shakier with 1x zoom for macro shots than 20x zoom for landscape shots.

Good, got it out of my system. Here is the actual raw bouquet shot I was talking about. You can clearly see the two problems.

Panasonic TM900 - Focus gone wild - YouTube

[Roger Gunkel]

The shakiness looks like the camera was hand held and would be improved by using a tripod. My SD 700s are pretty much the same as the 900 and from my own experience, the hunting focus is due to the sensor being confused by bright points of light. In the bouquet example, the pearl beads in the bouquet are reflecting bright pin points that I think are causing the problem. I find the same thing with small led lights, the sort of thing that you find in a DJs starcloth. You also reported the came problem with the small loghts in the chandelier and I think you will find it quite common in autofocus systems.

If you find you are encountering those sort of reflection or small light problems, just switch to MF and using the focus ring should be pretty straight forward if you are tripod mounted.

Roger

[Al Bergstein]

Well, I was admonished in another thread about too much techinical and not enough art stuff. So here's a break from the geek cheek, and a bit from the air. Back in 2011 I took the Tm900 along to Tucson. I lucked out and got late afternoon light on the Grand Canyon. Relax and take it in. It's beautiful no matter where or how you get the shots. Watch as much as you want.

Arizona From the Air on Vimeo

[Peter Rush]

I'm currently using the VW-WE08H 0.8x wide angle adapter but still want a wider field of view so I'm tempted with the VW-W4607H 0.7x adapter.

The VW-WE08H is giving me 28mm but the VW-W4607H will give me 24.5mm

Has anyone used this adapter and if so does it display much distortion over the VW-WE08H?

[Kevin Janisch]

Originally Posted by Luc Spencer

Thanks guys for enlightening me as to what the correct method of importing footage into Premiere is. I was wondering why Premiere wasn't recognizing the AVCHD format in the Media Browser... now I know I was doing it wrong.

I just logged in to rage. I have a shot of the bride's beautiful bouquet that I'm zooming in on, and the TM900 decides to CONSTANTLY shift focus, it goes absolutely WILD.

I noticed this happening -whenever- I zoom in/out slowly, for some reason the camera just goes nuts. The problem is worse if you have little lights in your shot, such as one of those old church chandeliers with lots of candle-shaped light bulbs on it. Filmed one of those as well and while the chandelier itself was a pleasure to look at, the constantly changing focus ruined it. I am always using MF from now on, even though it's not quite easy to get a steady macro shot without using both hands to keep the TM900 in place. I find it produces shaky video even with its awesome stabilizer, shakier with 1x zoom for macro shots than 20x zoom for landscape shots.

Good, got it out of my system. Here is the actual raw bouquet shot I was talking about. You can clearly see the two problems.

Hi Luc, I've encountered this problem on rare occasion. The TM900 just doesn't want to seem to focus or just goes in and out. My solution. Power it down using the power button and then power it back up (possibly disconnect battery too). It goes back to normal. This seems to happen once every few weeks. Hope this helps.

[Al Bergstein]

Peter, for the sake of the thread, I just saw that you asked this back in August. Do you still care about this? I have the 4607H but I don't know how to compare it to the 08H. I could shoot some footage for you if it's still relevant. I find the 4607H a really nice WA for this little camera. While I have a lot of other high end cameras, there is a lot to like in these these models.

Originally Posted by Peter Rush

I'm currently using the VW-WE08H 0.8x wide angle adapter but still want a wider field of view so I'm tempted with the VW-W4607H 0.7x adapter.

The VW-WE08H is giving me 28mm but the VW-W4607H will give me 24.5mm

Has anyone used this adapter and if so does it display much distortion over the VW-WE08H?

[Adrian Lepki]

Al, I'd be interested to see footage or a couple of stills shot with the WA adapter. I am interested in the sharpness in the corners of a frame. THX

[Al Bergstein]

I'm warming up my Lite Panels light and have printed out some high def resolution charts. Should have something by tomorrow. (my LP is COLD having been in the garage during the recent freeze).

[Al Bergstein]

Shooting with the 4607H WA. So I didn't get a chance to shoot inside sharpness tests, but here's a shot from today's shoot, just a screen grab from the video, so overall it's not as sharp as it looks on screen. Also, you can see that I was shooting pretty wide open. Edge to edge sharpness is about even, given that the screen grab is quite low res. Should give you a good idea of it though. I'm happy with it. Edge distortion in this shot could be way worse. People on the edges still look like people, not balloons. it's good enough when I don't want to lug around my bigger cameras.

[Adrian Lepki]

I think the 4607H WA is quite impressive - as you say - sharpness is pretty even. I have one follow up question - after editing, can you tell a difference, sharpness wise, if a footage was shot with or without 4607H WA? THX

[Al Bergstein]

Yes. Sharpness is pretty even if you are a bit stopped down and working in the wild. But at wide open, lower light situations things can break down first with the WA. Here's my little test video, as you can see, when I get in close the edge's show softness. I saw this as well on the shoot documented above, when I went into a nearby forest and was shooting wide open. Edge Sharpness is not as good. But hey, if I was getting paid, I'd grab a better camera in general. This one is good for what it does, and I do use it instead of an iPhone. But if I'm getting paid, I step up to at least a 7D, and usually a 5Dmkiii. Would I buy recommend this to a friend? You bet.

One thing that this brings up, is that critical focusing on the TM900 style cameras is not great. I can see blue lines for showing me what's in focus but
This little video is NOT a scientific test, just a simple setup to try and let you know what the sharpness is like. 45 seconds, time enough to stop on a given shot and take a look. Be sure to watch in HD. Stock needle drop music, no copyrights were hurt in the filming of this.

TM900 Test w/4607H Wide Angle Lens on Vimeo