DVX100 vs XL1S for movie shoots ?

[Randy Turner]

I have been looking at DV camcorders to film a short movie and some commercials i am working on so far the XL1S seems to be the front runner then I came accross this DVX100 oh so many camcorders so little time ! lol anyone know if the DVX100 is a better camcorder for filming then the XL1s ? any comments are welcome.
Thanx.
Randy.

[Ken Tanaka]

Randy,
You've asked a question for which there is no single answer. Each camera has features the other lacks. The DVX100's claim to current fame lies largely in its ability to shoot at film speed, 24 frames per second. The XL1s' most prominent feature is its modularity and interchangeable lenses.

Take some time to browse through this forum and the XL1s forum to get a good perspective on both. Be sure to look through the main DVInfo site as well as through the Resource reference thread in this forum.

[Randy Turner]

Hi Ken I have searched through most links XL1S , PD 150 , GL2 , and now the AG-DVX100 let me give you an idea of what i will be filming and maybe you can give me your advise thats all i ask I am going to be filming national TV commercials , Music videos , and short films for tv probably local I was hoping to get the best bang for my buck seems everyone is for the XL1S - PD 150 I dont need all the lenses the XL1S has available so I was going to opt for th PD 150 being is has DVcam also then i noticed the AG-DVX100 and it sound like i would get a better film quality then the others , im sure there are alot of things to take into account and one is my lack of experiance if you were me what camcorder would you get being you have some hind sight i dont please any advise :-) iv been looking at camcorders for 3 weeks now and still cant make up my mine :-(
Thanx again Ken

[Ken Tanaka]

DVCam compatibility may be a plus for working with broadcasters. "Film quality" may not matter much for that work. They'll want good audio and broadcast-safe footage. The PD-150 would be the safe choice there, although you can make any of these cameras fill that bill. I've never used a DVX100 so all I really know about it is what I read from others' experiences.

I guess I'd ask myself which camera is most likely to help me eat and pay the bills.

[Todd Mattson]

As for the original poster's question....I have owned an XL1 for three years now, and just bought my DVX100 about two weeks ago. I've got to tell you, from my experience the DVX100 wins hands down, as I am now selling my XL1. Don't get me wrong, the XL1 is a great camera, it's just that the DVX just outshines it in a good number of areas. About the only area where the XL1 wins in my opinion is if you want a larger footprint to impress clients. People do think you mean business when you show up with that thing.

However, many of the add ons on the XL1, are already standard on the DVX, although maybe not as gussied up. For example, to be able to do any sort of accurate rack focus on the XL1, you either got to have the patience of a zen master for the standard lens, or get the manual lens. On the DVX, there is a numerical reading of 1-100 of your focus position in the viewfinder/LCD screen. Maybe not the most accurate method of adjusting focus, but it beats the hell out of guessing with your eye only as on the XL1 standard lens.

As for negatives of the DVX, the way they did their internal 16x9 leaves me cold compared to the XL1's method. On the DVX it's a simple crop mask, and on the XL1 they crop the signal, stretch it out to fill the screen, and then record it. I'll be using the 16x9 lens on the DVX anyway, but it just seems they could have done it the crop and stretch method, rather than just the crop method.

Onto the audio section. The DVX comes standard with XLR inputs with optional phantom power. This wins hands down over the XL1's RCA inputs, which no matter how you dress them up with a mixer, Canon's XLR inputs, or any of the the others, you're still using an unbalanced connector to unbalanced inputs. You may as well just be buying a $10 XLR female to RCA male convertor from your local guitar store. Canon really missed the boat on their audio section, as have most DV cams. The DVX is actually the first DV camera I have used where I haven't felt a need for an external recorder. It sounds just as well as my old DAT recorder. I'd be curious to see Jay Rose over at DV put this cam through the same audio tests he did a few months back where he determined that in most cases minidisc sounds better than DV audio.

And there are little things as well. The reason I bought the camera is I am getting into doing legal video, and the XL1 cannot separate date/time from SMPTE time code on output during both record and playback, while the DVX can. See in legal video, a client needs a date/time stamp on their copies, but I couldn't very well send them copies that had all my information (SMPTE, f-stop,etc) on them as well.

If you'll notice, I haven't even touched on the 24P or the Leica lens aspects here, 'cause I'm sure you've heard that already. Let me just assure you, DO BELIEVE THE HYPE. It's just that good. Hey, and if I haven't convinced you, wanna buy my XL1?

[Jeff Donald]

I don't want to rehash old ground. None of the cameras are perfect. All have their strengths and weaknesses. I have commented on several factors the DVX100 has that cause issues. The Leica lens has noticeable barrel distortion at the wide angle setting, the video is delayed from the audio (causing problems for some users) and the plastic construction is flimsy (as noted by many users).

The XL1S (not XL1, there is a difference) is getting old, it's expensive when you add in accessories and support equipment.

Sony PD150 also has audio issues.

I would look for a good deal on a used XL1S or Sony PD150. If you want new then go with the Panasonic, as long as the audio sync and other issues are not a big deal for you (I'm assuming you'd be recording audio separate, for your National spots and syncing in post).

[Johnny Ai]

Todd,
I am also interested in DVX100 but as you said it can record date/time seperately from SMPTE time code. Do you mean you can record and playback the date/time information only on tape? Or you can also download the footage with date/time only into PC/MAC through IEEE1394 port? Thanks for your experiences.
Johnny Ai

[Teo Coxman]

Randy,
Here's a simple answer to your question. For music videos and commercials the Panasonic is by far the best choice...I got one so I could accept some lower budgets in town and it has twice paid itself off in a month...I just shot a video for an artist on Columbia (Daredevil Soundtrack) for a test and Sony went absolutey nuts...The DV8 Label owner called me and said their 10,000 dollar video got a standing ovation at Sony...I'll post it as soon as it's hosted...Good Luck!

[Randy Turner]

I ordered the GL2 after looking at prices I found one for 2100.00 and am going to buy a accessorys kit for about 300.00 with some of the things im going to need I read some of the reviews on all these cams and found the GL2 has gotten some really good reviews and the panasonic has some problems with it guess they still need to work the buggs out iv been told the GL2 will do the job and i can ajust it for a warmer softer look also some little tricks can be used for getting the movie look , I do wonder if after making the commercial the company or corp. will be able to use it in a national commercial spot being it was made with a low end prosummer cam ? I have until monday to make up my mind cc hasnt been charged yet ! ;-)

[Glenn Gipson]

OK...so basically your asking us if you should buy a camera that does strictly interlace video (the canon) or one that does interlace AND progressive (DVX100.) Why would you want a camera that is limited to just interlace video?

[Todd Mattson]

You probably would want to shoot with something that does have larger chips than the GL2 (3x1/4"), like the DVX, XL1, or PD150 (all three are 3x1/3"). That said, the definition of "broadcast quality" is extremely dependent on content and being color safe, and less and less so on what camera you shot it on. Also I have successfully cut together GL1 and XL1 footage, and although I could slightly tell the two apart, my wife, and my client for that matter, could not. What type of spot is it? A car commercial? Are you planning to shoot it interlaced or progressive (video look or film look)? Are you sure this isn't something that you shouldn't just rent a 16mm film camera or Varicam for? Perhaps if it's a national spot, you may want to look at that as something that is outside the capabilities of the DV camera you're going to purchase, and instead base your purchase around your short film, and other smaller paying shoots.

[Randy Turner]

found this review about the chip size Oxenburgh on 03-Feb-2003 09:03:04 am
I've had the GL2 for a month now and it's awesome. The quality of the images is outstanding. And it's interesting how the test shots I made on the superior chip sized Sony VX-2000 were no match for the smaller chip GL2. This is one time where size is really no indicator of quality. The Sony should have blasted the GL2 off the map with its larger chips. The GL2 also simply handles better and once you get used to the menu it's very easy to set up. Manual focus is easy and adjusting aperture is just a flip of a switch away.

[Dylan Couper]

Hey you "DVX100 is the best miniDV camera ever" guys, maybe you should check out the movie discussed in THIS THREAD

:)

[Todd Mattson]

Dylan,

As an owner of an XL1 for three years, and an owner of the DVX for four weeks, I have respect for both cameras, however in most aspects, the DVX wins out for me (that being the operative, "for me"). It's like guitars. Sooner or later people are going to realize that all this quibling about cameras that are in the same ballpark makes about as much sense as saying I think the Les Paul is a better guitar than a Stratocaster. Well, not for Jimi Hendrix or Eric Clapton and so on and so on.

It's all nonsense. Whatever your purposes are, there's probably a camera out there to suit your needs. I can only speak from my own experience and perspective as to what is the BEST camera for me. Our original poster may be very happy with the GL2. I however would not be, as if I were given the same budget, I would get a used XL1 (maybe mine, please!!!), or holdout a while for the DVX. My camera needs, however, probably don't match our original poster's needs. And just as the DVX and XL1 are akin to the Les Paul and the Strat, the difference between the XL1s and the GL2 is about the difference between the American made Strat and the Mexican made Strat. You can rock on either one if you know how to play.

Todd

[Dylan Couper]

Just trying to rattle your beehive. :)

Seriously though, a camera is just a paintbrush. You do need the right one for the right job but overall, it has very little effect on the overall picture.