SP and LP at DVinfo.net

Chris Ruona · November 14th, 2006, 10:28 PM

Whats the big difference? Is there that much quality difference in a final product?

John Miller · November 14th, 2006, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Ruona

Whats the big difference? Is there that much quality difference in a final product?

LP is notoriously fickle. If you are lucky, the quality will be the same but, because the tape moves much more slowly, the signal is more prone to drop-outs etc. Furthermore, as soon as you put a tape recorded in LP mode in a different device, you really run a high risk of errors.

Going in the other direction, DVCAM runs faster than SP and is more resistant to errors etc.

Frankly, any money saved on tape by recording LP is false economy.

Jim Sofranko · November 15th, 2006, 09:37 PM

To my knowledge, LP will not play on many professional decks.

Just today I had to have a dub made from camera to camera to get the "mistakenly shot with LP" tape of original footage transferred to a camera recording at SP speed. The Panasonic DVCAM/Mini DV deck would not play the original LP tape. It was a PITA for such a small mistake when doing the recording setup. My bad.

For the life of me, I don't even know why they have that setting on our DVX's.

Kevin Spahr · November 19th, 2006, 02:00 PM

I recently tested LP mode on some stuff that wasn't too important and I was quite impressed. I did not have one dropout in four tapes!

I would always SP mode when ever possible, but I have some events longer than one hour and I plan to run the video into some laptops and run a tape in LP mode as a backup.

That's with DVC-30`s by the way.

Peter Nowik · December 19th, 2006, 02:56 AM

Has anyone experienced trouble editing when footage was taken in LP? I'm a newbie and shot video in LP (DVC30) then captured the video to my pc where i worked with it in a simple program (mydvd 6.0). i edited the video but when i tried to burn to dvd it just kept hanging up without completing the burn. only if i used the captured video without edits would it burn.

i went through their support (which was not helpfull) but i though i might ask about the LP issue since this is something i just thought of. maybe i should just use different software? thanks for any insight.

i hate not being able to record any of my video edits to dvd. this should be simple with a simple program but i guess not.

Daniel J. Wojcik · December 19th, 2006, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Nowik

i went through their support (which was not helpfull) but i though i might ask about the LP issue since this is something i just thought of. maybe i should just use different software? thanks for any insight.

i hate not being able to record any of my video edits to dvd. this should be simple with a simple program but i guess not.

Once the footage is captured successfully, it doesn't matter what speed it was recorded with.

Likewise, if it's in your NLE and can be burned without editing, but not with editing...something with the edit is causing the problem. Or MyDVD itself (no knowledge of that program).

Giroud Francois · December 19th, 2006, 11:09 AM

technically, LP and SP are same quality.
juste tracks are packed closer (from 10 to 6 micron on DV, slight overlap))
the consequence is this could lead to misalignement when reading tape on another camera, and drops even when using same camera.

Denis Danatzko · December 20th, 2006, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Nowik

Has anyone experienced trouble editing when footage was taken in LP?

I sometimes get jobs that require taking 80 min. mini-DV tapes shot in LP on a Canon XLsomething and copying to VHS or DVD. (This is for legal video). I tried it on a combo mini-DV/VHS VTR (the JVC SR-VS30U) and the video was so choppy it was useless. I then tried it in a handheld JVC palmcorder (Model GR-D70U) and it worked. I haven't tried it in my HVX - and don't plan to - but I was able to complete the job.

I want to take on jobs recording legal video to supplement my income and am considering the purchase of a DVC-60 for that. Using an 80 min. tape in LP mode is how some clients want the jobs done. (Remember, they're attorneys, not producers. If that's what they want to pay me for, that's what I'm willing to do. Besides, most legal work is depositions, which are little more than talking-head shots with very little movement).

I'm searching for input about the success/perils of using an 80 min tape in LP mode on the DVC-60 before I make the purchase. The HVX user manual specifically states to use ONLY 60 min tapes. I'm trying to locate a DVC-60 user manual online to find out if it includes a similar warning. So far, no success at that.

Any feedback from DVC-60 owners who have the user manual handy would be greatly appreciated.

Tom Mussatto · December 20th, 2006, 01:02 PM

The only reference I can find to tape use is on page 15 of the manual. It RECOMMENDS using 60 minute tapes in SP mode but does not warn against using 80 minute tapes. No mention of 80 minute tapes in the manual that I can find. It does give the typical warnings when recording in LP.

I have recorded a few times in LP with no problems but have never tried recording to 80 minute tapes (83MQ). Tape speed in LP is 12.555 mm/sec running 90 minutes with 63PQ or 63MQ tapes.

Denis Danatzko · December 21st, 2006, 07:23 AM

While I understand the potential for problems due to the different thickness of tapes and using LP, I do find it a bit confusing (make that contradictory) that Panasonic would put their name on 80 (83) min tapes, then recommend that you don't use them in their cameras. I may go ahead and buy the DVC-60 simply to "save the heads" on the HVX and use it only for non-legal work and as a backup for legal. (I don't think any attorney w/b willing to pay for an HD deposition or will, even if they had a player to handle it).

Kevin Spahr · December 25th, 2006, 10:41 AM

Ever think of running it directly into your laptop? My DVC30s do this quite easily via firewire. It seems to me that a stationary setup would not hinder you in a legal setting and it would save you time since you wouldn't have to run the tape in later and you could use your tape in LP mode as a backup.

I have some plays to record and I plan to use a pair of powerbooks and tapes in LP mode for backup. These will just be static shot of the entire performance for archive purposes so being tethered to a laptop will not be an issue. And as in legal taping it feels good to have a backup since doing a second take isn't possible.

btw
One other thing to check is the ability of your camera to record the date and time stamp directly on the image (this may be required for legal recordings) which was one of the reason I purchased the DVC30s and of which I have no complaints about - they're great little cameras.

Denis Danatzko · December 31st, 2006, 11:45 AM

not "Tony"...I don't know what my fingers were doing while typing. Chalk that error up to temporary insanity :)

For Kevin, a setup like you describe is in my plans, but as of yet I don't own a single laptop capable of recording video. As for the date/time stamp, you're correct; each is de rigeur for legal. That's one reason I'm looking for a second camera...I can't use the CitiDisk HD with my HVX for legal; recording to the CitiDisk HD is only capable through firewire, and the HVX doesn't transmit the date/time stamp via firewire. That's my quandary: I need recording times longer than 1 hour, but - at present - that appears unachievable with the HVX. That may seem small to some folks, but once an attorney is "on a roll" in the midst of obtaining testimony, they don't like to be interrupted to change tapes.

Thanks for the input.

November 14th, 2006, 10:28 PM	#1
Chris Ruona Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 31	SP and LP Whats the big difference? Is there that much quality difference in a final product?

December 21st, 2006, 07:23 AM	#10
Denis Danatzko Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: NYC Metro area Posts: 579	Thanks a bunch, Tony. While I understand the potential for problems due to the different thickness of tapes and using LP, I do find it a bit confusing (make that contradictory) that Panasonic would put their name on 80 (83) min tapes, then recommend that you don't use them in their cameras. I may go ahead and buy the DVC-60 simply to "save the heads" on the HVX and use it only for non-legal work and as a backup for legal. (I don't think any attorney w/b willing to pay for an HD deposition or will, even if they had a player to handle it). __________________ Denis ------------ Our actions are based on our own experience and knowledge. Thus, no one is ever totally right, nor totally wrong. We simply act from what we "know" to be true, based on that experience and knowledge. Beyond that, we pose questions to others.

December 31st, 2006, 11:45 AM	#12
Denis Danatzko Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: NYC Metro area Posts: 579	Apologies to Tom... not "Tony"...I don't know what my fingers were doing while typing. Chalk that error up to temporary insanity :) For Kevin, a setup like you describe is in my plans, but as of yet I don't own a single laptop capable of recording video. As for the date/time stamp, you're correct; each is de rigeur for legal. That's one reason I'm looking for a second camera...I can't use the CitiDisk HD with my HVX for legal; recording to the CitiDisk HD is only capable through firewire, and the HVX doesn't transmit the date/time stamp via firewire. That's my quandary: I need recording times longer than 1 hour, but - at present - that appears unachievable with the HVX. That may seem small to some folks, but once an attorney is "on a roll" in the midst of obtaining testimony, they don't like to be interrupted to change tapes. Thanks for the input. __________________ Denis ------------ Our actions are based on our own experience and knowledge. Thus, no one is ever totally right, nor totally wrong. We simply act from what we "know" to be true, based on that experience and knowledge. Beyond that, we pose questions to others.

November 15th, 2006, 09:37 PM	#3
Jim Sofranko Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: West Shokan, NY Posts: 217	To my knowledge, LP will not play on many professional decks. Just today I had to have a dub made from camera to camera to get the "mistakenly shot with LP" tape of original footage transferred to a camera recording at SP speed. The Panasonic DVCAM/Mini DV deck would not play the original LP tape. It was a PITA for such a small mistake when doing the recording setup. My bad. For the life of me, I don't even know why they have that setting on our DVX's.

November 19th, 2006, 02:00 PM	#4
Kevin Spahr Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Carlisle, PA Posts: 451	I recently tested LP mode on some stuff that wasn't too important and I was quite impressed. I did not have one dropout in four tapes! I would always SP mode when ever possible, but I have some events longer than one hour and I plan to run the video into some laptops and run a tape in LP mode as a backup. That's with DVC-30`s by the way.

December 19th, 2006, 02:56 AM	#5
Peter Nowik Tourist Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Norwalk, CT Posts: 1	Has anyone experienced trouble editing when footage was taken in LP? I'm a newbie and shot video in LP (DVC30) then captured the video to my pc where i worked with it in a simple program (mydvd 6.0). i edited the video but when i tried to burn to dvd it just kept hanging up without completing the burn. only if i used the captured video without edits would it burn. i went through their support (which was not helpfull) but i though i might ask about the LP issue since this is something i just thought of. maybe i should just use different software? thanks for any insight. i hate not being able to record any of my video edits to dvd. this should be simple with a simple program but i guess not.

December 19th, 2006, 11:09 AM	#7
Giroud Francois Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: switzerland Posts: 2,133	technically, LP and SP are same quality. juste tracks are packed closer (from 10 to 6 micron on DV, slight overlap)) the consequence is this could lead to misalignement when reading tape on another camera, and drops even when using same camera.

December 20th, 2006, 01:02 PM	#9
Tom Mussatto Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: worden, illinois Posts: 76	The only reference I can find to tape use is on page 15 of the manual. It RECOMMENDS using 60 minute tapes in SP mode but does not warn against using 80 minute tapes. No mention of 80 minute tapes in the manual that I can find. It does give the typical warnings when recording in LP. I have recorded a few times in LP with no problems but have never tried recording to 80 minute tapes (83MQ). Tape speed in LP is 12.555 mm/sec running 90 minutes with 63PQ or 63MQ tapes.

December 25th, 2006, 10:41 AM	#11
Kevin Spahr Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Carlisle, PA Posts: 451	Ever think of running it directly into your laptop? My DVC30s do this quite easily via firewire. It seems to me that a stationary setup would not hinder you in a legal setting and it would save you time since you wouldn't have to run the tape in later and you could use your tape in LP mode as a backup. I have some plays to record and I plan to use a pair of powerbooks and tapes in LP mode for backup. These will just be static shot of the entire performance for archive purposes so being tethered to a laptop will not be an issue. And as in legal taping it feels good to have a backup since doing a second take isn't possible. btw One other thing to check is the ability of your camera to record the date and time stamp directly on the image (this may be required for legal recordings) which was one of the reason I purchased the DVC30s and of which I have no complaints about - they're great little cameras.