Getting 25p footage into the Mac at DVinfo.net

March 3rd, 2003, 09:46 PM

I'm a total newbie to shooting progressive scan DV. I've been blessed to have the DVX100E(PAL) with me till Wednesday as a trial period.

So I shoot in 25p mode with the cine-look gamma etc, and capture it all into iMovie and export it as QT DV PAL highest quality to play with in After Effects 5.5.

Some things I notice:

1. Some hi-contrast diagonal lines look very pixelated.

2. After exporting out of iMovie, the clip looks interlaced in AE. Separating the fields in Interpret Footage gets rid of the fields, but does this degrade the footage? I'd like to have full-frame footage to add FX and composite with in AE.

Is there a proper way to capture 25p footage as progressive scan full frames instead of interlaced? Is iMovie the problem here, would FCP handle this properly?

Many thanks in advance!

Ken Tanaka · March 3rd, 2003, 10:08 PM

I cannot advise you on the DVX100 but I can advise that iMovie is not the appropriate editing application if you want to maintain your footage's look. The capture portion of the editing process will not harm the non-interlaced (progressive) nature of your footage. But iMovie cannot adequately handle 24p.

See Apple's Cinema Tools for a Final Cut Pro-based solution.

March 3rd, 2003, 10:17 PM

I actually don't need to work with 24p. I'm quite happy with 25p. But if I you understand correctly, iMovie _does_ import the 25p footage as progressive? Does this mean that it became interlaced when I exported it out from iMovie as a Quicktime movie with DV PAL codec?

I just basically want to get 25p footage into After Effects for some FX and compositing, and all I have is iMovie for capturing from the camera. Are you saying I can't do this with what I have?

Thanks again!

Ken Tanaka · March 3rd, 2003, 10:51 PM

I don't work with iMovie often, so I may be mistaken. But I don't believe that it will interlace progressive footage. Nor will an export to a DV file. Check your AE settings. Maybe you're previewing the footage in draft mode?

Adrian Douglas · March 3rd, 2003, 11:43 PM

Like Ken, I can't be absolutely sure of this but I think the camera interlaces the progressive scan footage automatically. It can then be deinterlaced when captured if your capture utility/NLE app supports this process. At least that's what the XL1 does and I imagine it would be something similar with the DVX100.

Again, IMovie isn't really the app you should be using when you want max quality as it probably doesn't support capture of deinterlaced footage. You should be using at least Premiere or better still FCP.

March 4th, 2003, 12:28 AM

Thanks, Adrian!

Could you please describe the process for capturing the Frame Mode movies uninterlaced for the XL1? I agree with you that it's probably similar for the DVX.

Does this process preserve the full-frame quality of the original progressive scan footage or does it merely duplicate the fields?

Thanks!

Ken Tanaka · March 4th, 2003, 12:38 AM

Andrew,
The process is that you just capture the footage from the tape as you would with any other footage. The capture process has absolutely nothing to do with Frame -vs- Normal mode footage. Ditto true progressive scan recordings. The camera has already recorded the footage in DV format onto the tape. It all comes into the computer the same way.

Adrian Douglas · March 4th, 2003, 05:49 AM

If that's the case Ken what happens when I check Deinterlace in my DVTools capture utility. I always do this when capturing footage shot in frame mode and then reinterlace it if outputting to VHS/DV tape.

Jeff Donald · March 4th, 2003, 07:57 AM

I've posted this a couple of times around here. This is a power point presentation on 24p that Adam Wilt gave at MacWorld in January.

Ken Tanaka · March 4th, 2003, 12:32 PM

Adrian,
Standard Definition (SD) video consists of two interlaced fields and that's what the computer captures from tape, regardless of the methods that the source camera may have used to record or process those fields (i.e. progressive scan, frame mode, or normal mode).

I've never used DV Tools, but its "deinterlace" option would be a unique convenience feature of that utility ancillary to the base acquisition process. iMovie, Andrew's editing tool, captures the footage as it finds it.

I don't think we really have enough information to evaluate the problem that Andrew expressed. His use of the term "pixelated" (i.e. blocky patches), however, does not suggest interlacing issues.

Andrew, do you have some sample frame captures that you could offer?

Ernest Acosta · March 6th, 2003, 09:47 AM

Andrew you need to get DVFilm Atlantis software. This will help you out, but I have to agree with the other forum folks about not editing in i-Movie. It is limited and is basically a scaled down home editing system. Get Final Cut Pro or Vegas Video or even Premiere. Plus I think dv film's software will only work with the last three I mentioned.

March 3rd, 2003, 09:46 PM	#1
Andrew Phang Posts: n/a	Getting 25p footage into the Mac I'm a total newbie to shooting progressive scan DV. I've been blessed to have the DVX100E(PAL) with me till Wednesday as a trial period. So I shoot in 25p mode with the cine-look gamma etc, and capture it all into iMovie and export it as QT DV PAL highest quality to play with in After Effects 5.5. Some things I notice: 1. Some hi-contrast diagonal lines look very pixelated. 2. After exporting out of iMovie, the clip looks interlaced in AE. Separating the fields in Interpret Footage gets rid of the fields, but does this degrade the footage? I'd like to have full-frame footage to add FX and composite with in AE. Is there a proper way to capture 25p footage as progressive scan full frames instead of interlaced? Is iMovie the problem here, would FCP handle this properly? Many thanks in advance!

March 3rd, 2003, 10:08 PM	#2
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Welcome Andrew I cannot advise you on the DVX100 but I can advise that iMovie is not the appropriate editing application if you want to maintain your footage's look. The capture portion of the editing process will not harm the non-interlaced (progressive) nature of your footage. But iMovie cannot adequately handle 24p. See Apple's Cinema Tools for a Final Cut Pro-based solution. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

March 3rd, 2003, 10:17 PM	#3
Andrew Phang Posts: n/a	Thanks Ken! I actually don't need to work with 24p. I'm quite happy with 25p. But if I you understand correctly, iMovie _does_ import the 25p footage as progressive? Does this mean that it became interlaced when I exported it out from iMovie as a Quicktime movie with DV PAL codec? I just basically want to get 25p footage into After Effects for some FX and compositing, and all I have is iMovie for capturing from the camera. Are you saying I can't do this with what I have? Thanks again!

March 3rd, 2003, 10:51 PM	#4
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	I don't work with iMovie often, so I may be mistaken. But I don't believe that it will interlace progressive footage. Nor will an export to a DV file. Check your AE settings. Maybe you're previewing the footage in draft mode? __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

March 3rd, 2003, 11:43 PM	#5
Adrian Douglas Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Chigasaki, Japan. Posts: 1,660	Like Ken, I can't be absolutely sure of this but I think the camera interlaces the progressive scan footage automatically. It can then be deinterlaced when captured if your capture utility/NLE app supports this process. At least that's what the XL1 does and I imagine it would be something similar with the DVX100. Again, IMovie isn't really the app you should be using when you want max quality as it probably doesn't support capture of deinterlaced footage. You should be using at least Premiere or better still FCP. __________________ Adrian DVInfo.net Search for quick answers Where to buy? From the best in the business...DVInfo.net sponsors

March 4th, 2003, 12:28 AM	#6
Andrew Phang Posts: n/a	Thanks, Adrian! Could you please describe the process for capturing the Frame Mode movies uninterlaced for the XL1? I agree with you that it's probably similar for the DVX. Does this process preserve the full-frame quality of the original progressive scan footage or does it merely duplicate the fields? Thanks!

March 4th, 2003, 12:38 AM	#7
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Andrew, The process is that you just capture the footage from the tape as you would with any other footage. The capture process has absolutely nothing to do with Frame -vs- Normal mode footage. Ditto true progressive scan recordings. The camera has already recorded the footage in DV format onto the tape. It all comes into the computer the same way. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

March 4th, 2003, 05:49 AM	#8
Adrian Douglas Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Chigasaki, Japan. Posts: 1,660	If that's the case Ken what happens when I check Deinterlace in my DVTools capture utility. I always do this when capturing footage shot in frame mode and then reinterlace it if outputting to VHS/DV tape. __________________ Adrian DVInfo.net Search for quick answers Where to buy? From the best in the business...DVInfo.net sponsors

March 4th, 2003, 07:57 AM	#9
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	I've posted this a couple of times around here. This is a power point presentation on 24p that Adam Wilt gave at MacWorld in January. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

March 4th, 2003, 12:32 PM	#10
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Adrian, Standard Definition (SD) video consists of two interlaced fields and that's what the computer captures from tape, regardless of the methods that the source camera may have used to record or process those fields (i.e. progressive scan, frame mode, or normal mode). I've never used DV Tools, but its "deinterlace" option would be a unique convenience feature of that utility ancillary to the base acquisition process. iMovie, Andrew's editing tool, captures the footage as it finds it. I don't think we really have enough information to evaluate the problem that Andrew expressed. His use of the term "pixelated" (i.e. blocky patches), however, does not suggest interlacing issues. Andrew, do you have some sample frame captures that you could offer? __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

March 6th, 2003, 09:47 AM	#11
Ernest Acosta Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: New York Posts: 59	Editing 25p Andrew you need to get DVFilm Atlantis software. This will help you out, but I have to agree with the other forum folks about not editing in i-Movie. It is limited and is basically a scaled down home editing system. Get Final Cut Pro or Vegas Video or even Premiere. Plus I think dv film's software will only work with the last three I mentioned.