AG-DVC80 various topics

Vignir Haraldsson · March 17th, 2004, 06:10 PM

I have clips, but they are pretty compressed. I have nothing substantial since I've not used the dvc80 as much as I expected.

You can check out some clips at
http://www.berserkur.net/movies_main.htm

They are short, mostly of the family so might be severely boring (but it's not the shaky-cam, shoot everything kinda stuff - I took a bit of care editing the clips).

Tomorrow or friday I'm throwing together a short clip from the streets of India. I can make it larger and less compression if you'd like (make it 30-40mbs). It should be up this weekend.

I'm pleased with the camera, the color quality is good - as would be expected with a 3 chipper, but I need to really use it before I can give an educated opinion of the quality and usability.

John Britt · March 17th, 2004, 07:14 PM

Bob

I have some commercials I have made using the DVC80 on my website at www.karatemedia.com/video

The ads shot with the DVC80 include: Marti's at Midday, Musician's Warehouse Christmas, Gardens at Eden Christmas, Musician's Warehouse Grand Opening, and Gardens at Eden Fall Specials. They are available in Quicktime 6 and RealPlayer formats. I think the Quicktime versions look better than the Realplayer ones.

Fair warning -- I am not the best cameraman; these are cheaps ads that are shot in a run-n-gun style. But it will give you some idea of the DVC80 in action.

Agus Casse · March 17th, 2004, 11:07 PM

Ok just to let you know how much i love my DVC80...

I live in Guatemala, and travel to NY, USA, just to go to BH, buy the camera and return... who can beat that ? just for the pleasure to get the camera that i want and personally test it before buy it.

Also i was cheaper that getting it online, cause i got a free ticket.

Bob Fitzgibbon · March 18th, 2004, 04:43 PM

Thank you John

The commercials look great. The DVC80 seemed to have performed very well.

How were the interior shots lit? What mics were used?

Thanks Bob

Steve D. Taylor · March 18th, 2004, 04:48 PM

George and others,

Would you care to share your favorite set-up settings with this camera? I'm still playing with them and having a hard time deciding what I like.

What looks best to you?

Steve.

George Vallejo · March 18th, 2004, 05:15 PM

Bob,

My favorite setting and the easiest to set has got to be the Fluorescent Matrix setting. It works wonderful when you're shooting under cold fluorescent lighting.

Others are the "Sparkle" pre-set on the DVX100 to punch up night scenes under dim lighting.

GV's Personal Favorite:

Detail +1
Chroma + 1
Chroma Phase -2
Master Ped -3
A. Iris -1
Skin Tone DTL Off

John Britt · March 18th, 2004, 09:08 PM

Bob--

Thanks for the kind words. I'm glad you liked the ads. They really are pretty much run-n-gun; I only used existing light for those shots, except for the very last shot in the "Marti's at Midday" ad, where I set up a small lamp from the owner's office because the room was so dark. That was one dark dining room: I made the mistake of not paying close enough attention to the room when I first scouted it: it seemed well-lit the day I visited, but I didn't notice that 90% of that light was from the very bright day that was shining through the large windows across the front of the restaurant.

When I returned the day of the shoot, it was an incredibly overcast day and the dining room had gone from vibrant to grey. Then I realized there was only one sad little ceiling light in the main room that barely helped at all. Even the head-cook-cum-amatuer-photographer quizzed me about what I was going to do if the footage came out bad because of the poor light.

Ultimately, though, the DVC80 did pretty good in that situation; I don't even think I ever used the gain at all during the shoot. Up until that point, it had been a "policy" of mine that because of my low rates (and being a one-man crew) that I only used existing lighting. After shooting that ad, though, I decided to splurge on some work lights to at least help compensate for situations like that.

As for mics, if the speaker is on camera (as in the last shot of the Marti's at Midday ad or in the Musician's Warehouse Christmas ad), they are wearing a Sony ECM-44B lavalier mic. If they are off camera, they are probably using an Audio Technica Midnight Blues 4000C hand-held condenser mic -- that's a pretty cheap ($80, I think) condenser; not the best, but it gets the job done. The ECM-44B is a relatively inexpensive, entry-level lavalier as well; I would like to upgrade that one by the end of the year.

Recently, I purchased a Rode NT1-A large condenser mic for my own voiceovers (done in my office), and I will probably soon upgrade the 4000C handheld to an AKG D230 for remote recordings where the owner does an off-cam voiceover (I haven't yet decided on the mic I want, but thanks to Bryan Beasleigh's help, I'm leaning towards the D230).

Steve --

I haven't really had a chance to really get into the scene file settings, except for the flourescent setting. I agree with George that that is a great setting -- the first time I tried to use it was for the Musician's Warehouse Grand Opening spot. Of course, I screwed something up (I think I forgot to choose "save" before pressing "menu") and ended up with that wonderful flourescent green throughout all my footage. It was easily fixed in Premiere, but the next time I shot inside that store I made *sure* that the scene file was set correctly and I think the video turned out great.

Anyway, after reading some of your earlier posts re: using scene file settings, I've started experimenting with them when possible. I just wish that somebody would print an article/book/whatever that delved *deep* into using DVC80 scene file settings, with specific examples and some recommended settings. I like to experiment, but sometimes I like to have a guide to follow as well...

Steve D. Taylor · March 19th, 2004, 12:29 PM

John,

Nice spots! I haven't used the flourescent setting yet, as I've not shot under those kind lights...but probably will. I'll have to check it out.

Yes, it would be nice if there was some kind of guide to all those settings.

Thanks,

Steve.

Bob Fitzgibbon · March 19th, 2004, 04:32 PM

John,

Thanks again for sharing your experience and mic info. Is this the greatest forum or what? We can all save each other so much agrivation, not to mention $$$$.

Once again, I thought that your spots were great. You say "Run & Gun". However, we all see spots everyday that can't hold a candle to your work. Please give yourself more credit.

PS: Raise your prices....you deserve it. Besides, one very important lesson that I learned many years ago (I am probably a heck of a lot older than you) is.... If you charge very little, people think that you are worth very little. And when you try to be a good guy and give someone, even someone that you know, a break....they invariably can't wait to tell everyone what a great price they got. "Now try to get a higher price!"

Thank you John
Bob

Bob Fitzgibbon · March 19th, 2004, 06:22 PM

John,

Sorry, forgot to ask...Do you know if the DVC80 is suitable for legal deposition work. I understand that it has military time code only. I wonder if that would sync with court reporters.

If you ever hear about anything like that, please email me at bobefitz@comcast.net

Bob

George Vallejo · March 19th, 2004, 09:08 PM

Bob,

The DVC-80 can sync up with reporter if he/she can do military time. For regular time syncing up with a reporter the new dvc-30 is much better since it can actually burn regular time/date on the tape. It also has that nightshot/infrared feature that can come in handy in legal work. I have, however, used my DVC80 for doing Independent Medical Examinations IMEs, and for that it works fine.

Bob Fitzgibbon · March 20th, 2004, 06:05 AM

George,

Thanks for the court reporter sync info.

I really thought it would be easy to find a new camera. but it seems that the mfgrs put limits on each model. (you don't get all the features unless you pay all the marbles!)

Other than the time code issue...do you feel that the DVC30 has enough to offer over the DVC80 to make it worth the difference.

That's another thing that puzzles me. B&H which I like very much, has the 80 at a list price about $500 more than the 30, but prices the thirty avove the 80.

I must be missing something.

Bob

Nick Kerpchar · March 20th, 2004, 06:34 AM

Bob,
I don't know if the following from another thread in this category (on this forum) answers your question or not about the price of the DVC-30 at B&H:

>Just noticed that B&H went up $50.00 on the DVC30 from their advertised price and they haven't even got it in stock yet.<

Keeping up with equipment prices is almost like trying to keep up with the stock market. One almost needs a "ticket tape" banner with current prices at the bottom of the CRT screen. Humm, that may not be a bad idea. Naw, that's a terrible idea.

Nick

Bob Fitzgibbon · March 20th, 2004, 06:57 AM

Hi Nick,

I think that we should just have our pay checks direct deposited to B&H and every now and then they could mail us a new toy.

I used to think that boating was a money pit. Oh well!

Thanks to the forum...at least there are some common sense answers to be had.

Thanks nick

Bob

John Britt · March 20th, 2004, 11:26 AM

Bob, thank you yet again for the kind words. As for what I charge, I've gone into it a bit in the Business forum, but basically it comes down to the fact that the cable company's in-house team charges $500 for a spot, and can offer the client a few more options in terms of professional voice-over talent, background music, etc. Those are options I can't offer (at least with such variety), so all other aspects being equal, $300 seems like a reasonable price. And the best indie production team in town only charges $600 for local businesses and I think they're stuff is "national" quality.

As for DVC80 vs 30 -- it depends on what your primary use is. For me, the 80's native (and unobtrusive) XLR inputs and 48v phantom power were a big selling point. If you are considering taping depositions, read Paul Tauger's article on it: http://www.dvinfo.net/articles/business/tauger1.php if you haven't already.

The interesting thing he states in that article is: "A note about digital cameras: I don't like them for depositions..."

The DVC30 does seems to have some features that are suited for legal work (infrared, etc). And the 80 has features that are probably better suited for television work. As for the price difference, it's probably best for places like B&H to keep the expected price high until they actually have the camera in hand. No one wants to promise a price they can't deliver, but it always looks great when you can surprise everybody with a huge price drop. After seeing it priced at $2200 for so long, it'll be that much more attractive when it gets released with, say, a $1900 B&H street price.

March 17th, 2004, 06:10 PM	#121
Vignir Haraldsson Tourist Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 2	clips I have clips, but they are pretty compressed. I have nothing substantial since I've not used the dvc80 as much as I expected. You can check out some clips at http://www.berserkur.net/movies_main.htm They are short, mostly of the family so might be severely boring (but it's not the shaky-cam, shoot everything kinda stuff - I took a bit of care editing the clips). Tomorrow or friday I'm throwing together a short clip from the streets of India. I can make it larger and less compression if you'd like (make it 30-40mbs). It should be up this weekend. I'm pleased with the camera, the color quality is good - as would be expected with a 3 chipper, but I need to really use it before I can give an educated opinion of the quality and usability.

March 17th, 2004, 11:07 PM	#123
Agus Casse Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Guatemala Posts: 322	Ok just to let you know how much i love my DVC80... I live in Guatemala, and travel to NY, USA, just to go to BH, buy the camera and return... who can beat that ? just for the pleasure to get the camera that i want and personally test it before buy it. Also i was cheaper that getting it online, cause i got a free ticket. __________________ Agus35 - the ultimate tool for indie DV filmakers -

March 18th, 2004, 05:15 PM	#126
George Vallejo New Boot Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 7	Favorite Settings Bob, My favorite setting and the easiest to set has got to be the Fluorescent Matrix setting. It works wonderful when you're shooting under cold fluorescent lighting. Others are the "Sparkle" pre-set on the DVX100 to punch up night scenes under dim lighting. GV's Personal Favorite: Detail +1 Chroma + 1 Chroma Phase -2 Master Ped -3 A. Iris -1 Skin Tone DTL Off __________________ GV

March 19th, 2004, 09:08 PM	#131
George Vallejo New Boot Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 7	DVC-80 not ideal for legal work Bob, The DVC-80 can sync up with reporter if he/she can do military time. For regular time syncing up with a reporter the new dvc-30 is much better since it can actually burn regular time/date on the tape. It also has that nightshot/infrared feature that can come in handy in legal work. I have, however, used my DVC80 for doing Independent Medical Examinations IMEs, and for that it works fine. __________________ GV

March 17th, 2004, 07:14 PM	#122
John Britt Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 621	Bob I have some commercials I have made using the DVC80 on my website at www.karatemedia.com/video The ads shot with the DVC80 include: Marti's at Midday, Musician's Warehouse Christmas, Gardens at Eden Christmas, Musician's Warehouse Grand Opening, and Gardens at Eden Fall Specials. They are available in Quicktime 6 and RealPlayer formats. I think the Quicktime versions look better than the Realplayer ones. Fair warning -- I am not the best cameraman; these are cheaps ads that are shot in a run-n-gun style. But it will give you some idea of the DVC80 in action.

March 18th, 2004, 04:43 PM	#124
Bob Fitzgibbon Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: West Simsbury, CT Posts: 30	Thank you John The commercials look great. The DVC80 seemed to have performed very well. How were the interior shots lit? What mics were used? Thanks Bob

March 18th, 2004, 04:48 PM	#125
Steve D. Taylor Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Washington Posts: 44	George and others, Would you care to share your favorite set-up settings with this camera? I'm still playing with them and having a hard time deciding what I like. What looks best to you? Steve.

March 18th, 2004, 09:08 PM	#127
John Britt Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 621	Bob-- Thanks for the kind words. I'm glad you liked the ads. They really are pretty much run-n-gun; I only used existing light for those shots, except for the very last shot in the "Marti's at Midday" ad, where I set up a small lamp from the owner's office because the room was so dark. That was one dark dining room: I made the mistake of not paying close enough attention to the room when I first scouted it: it seemed well-lit the day I visited, but I didn't notice that 90% of that light was from the very bright day that was shining through the large windows across the front of the restaurant. When I returned the day of the shoot, it was an incredibly overcast day and the dining room had gone from vibrant to grey. Then I realized there was only one sad little ceiling light in the main room that barely helped at all. Even the head-cook-cum-amatuer-photographer quizzed me about what I was going to do if the footage came out bad because of the poor light. Ultimately, though, the DVC80 did pretty good in that situation; I don't even think I ever used the gain at all during the shoot. Up until that point, it had been a "policy" of mine that because of my low rates (and being a one-man crew) that I only used existing lighting. After shooting that ad, though, I decided to splurge on some work lights to at least help compensate for situations like that. As for mics, if the speaker is on camera (as in the last shot of the Marti's at Midday ad or in the Musician's Warehouse Christmas ad), they are wearing a Sony ECM-44B lavalier mic. If they are off camera, they are probably using an Audio Technica Midnight Blues 4000C hand-held condenser mic -- that's a pretty cheap ($80, I think) condenser; not the best, but it gets the job done. The ECM-44B is a relatively inexpensive, entry-level lavalier as well; I would like to upgrade that one by the end of the year. Recently, I purchased a Rode NT1-A large condenser mic for my own voiceovers (done in my office), and I will probably soon upgrade the 4000C handheld to an AKG D230 for remote recordings where the owner does an off-cam voiceover (I haven't yet decided on the mic I want, but thanks to Bryan Beasleigh's help, I'm leaning towards the D230). Steve -- I haven't really had a chance to really get into the scene file settings, except for the flourescent setting. I agree with George that that is a great setting -- the first time I tried to use it was for the Musician's Warehouse Grand Opening spot. Of course, I screwed something up (I think I forgot to choose "save" before pressing "menu") and ended up with that wonderful flourescent green throughout all my footage. It was easily fixed in Premiere, but the next time I shot inside that store I made sure that the scene file was set correctly and I think the video turned out great. Anyway, after reading some of your earlier posts re: using scene file settings, I've started experimenting with them when possible. I just wish that somebody would print an article/book/whatever that delved deep into using DVC80 scene file settings, with specific examples and some recommended settings. I like to experiment, but sometimes I like to have a guide to follow as well...

March 19th, 2004, 12:29 PM	#128
Steve D. Taylor Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Washington Posts: 44	John, Nice spots! I haven't used the flourescent setting yet, as I've not shot under those kind lights...but probably will. I'll have to check it out. Yes, it would be nice if there was some kind of guide to all those settings. Thanks, Steve.

March 19th, 2004, 04:32 PM	#129
Bob Fitzgibbon Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: West Simsbury, CT Posts: 30	John, Thanks again for sharing your experience and mic info. Is this the greatest forum or what? We can all save each other so much agrivation, not to mention $$$$. Once again, I thought that your spots were great. You say "Run & Gun". However, we all see spots everyday that can't hold a candle to your work. Please give yourself more credit. PS: Raise your prices....you deserve it. Besides, one very important lesson that I learned many years ago (I am probably a heck of a lot older than you) is.... If you charge very little, people think that you are worth very little. And when you try to be a good guy and give someone, even someone that you know, a break....they invariably can't wait to tell everyone what a great price they got. "Now try to get a higher price!" Thank you John Bob

March 19th, 2004, 06:22 PM	#130
Bob Fitzgibbon Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: West Simsbury, CT Posts: 30	John, Sorry, forgot to ask...Do you know if the DVC80 is suitable for legal deposition work. I understand that it has military time code only. I wonder if that would sync with court reporters. If you ever hear about anything like that, please email me at bobefitz@comcast.net Bob

March 20th, 2004, 06:05 AM	#132
Bob Fitzgibbon Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: West Simsbury, CT Posts: 30	George, Thanks for the court reporter sync info. I really thought it would be easy to find a new camera. but it seems that the mfgrs put limits on each model. (you don't get all the features unless you pay all the marbles!) Other than the time code issue...do you feel that the DVC30 has enough to offer over the DVC80 to make it worth the difference. That's another thing that puzzles me. B&H which I like very much, has the 80 at a list price about $500 more than the 30, but prices the thirty avove the 80. I must be missing something. Bob

March 20th, 2004, 06:34 AM	#133
Nick Kerpchar Major Player Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 211	Bob, I don't know if the following from another thread in this category (on this forum) answers your question or not about the price of the DVC-30 at B&H: >Just noticed that B&H went up $50.00 on the DVC30 from their advertised price and they haven't even got it in stock yet.< Keeping up with equipment prices is almost like trying to keep up with the stock market. One almost needs a "ticket tape" banner with current prices at the bottom of the CRT screen. Humm, that may not be a bad idea. Naw, that's a terrible idea. Nick

March 20th, 2004, 06:57 AM	#134
Bob Fitzgibbon Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: West Simsbury, CT Posts: 30	Hi Nick, I think that we should just have our pay checks direct deposited to B&H and every now and then they could mail us a new toy. I used to think that boating was a money pit. Oh well! Thanks to the forum...at least there are some common sense answers to be had. Thanks nick Bob

March 20th, 2004, 11:26 AM	#135
John Britt Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 621	Bob, thank you yet again for the kind words. As for what I charge, I've gone into it a bit in the Business forum, but basically it comes down to the fact that the cable company's in-house team charges $500 for a spot, and can offer the client a few more options in terms of professional voice-over talent, background music, etc. Those are options I can't offer (at least with such variety), so all other aspects being equal, $300 seems like a reasonable price. And the best indie production team in town only charges $600 for local businesses and I think they're stuff is "national" quality. As for DVC80 vs 30 -- it depends on what your primary use is. For me, the 80's native (and unobtrusive) XLR inputs and 48v phantom power were a big selling point. If you are considering taping depositions, read Paul Tauger's article on it: http://www.dvinfo.net/articles/business/tauger1.php if you haven't already. The interesting thing he states in that article is: "A note about digital cameras: I don't like them for depositions..." The DVC30 does seems to have some features that are suited for legal work (infrared, etc). And the 80 has features that are probably better suited for television work. As for the price difference, it's probably best for places like B&H to keep the expected price high until they actually have the camera in hand. No one wants to promise a price they can't deliver, but it always looks great when you can surprise everybody with a huge price drop. After seeing it priced at $2200 for so long, it'll be that much more attractive when it gets released with, say, a $1900 B&H street price.