Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A

[Barry Green]

Originally Posted by Alastair Traill

The Infrared answer was what I expected but not what I wanted.

I experimented with a variable ND filter. It works, I can get proper exposure, but it's been rainy and overcast here so I don't know what it would look like in full sunlight. I would imagine adding something like an ND 1.2 would get it in the ballpark.

The Panasonic literature mentions a wired remote for the UX180 that will be 'commercially available'. I assume this will will not be made by Panasonic. Do you have any information on this item?

The UX cameras are backwards-compatible with wired remote controls that have been made since at least 2003. Any remote that works for a DVX100, HVX200, HMC150, HPX170, HPX250, AC130, AC160, DVX200, etc., will also work with the UX90 and UX180. They're made by many companies.

In addition to wired remotes, you can also use a USB wi-fi dongle and control the camera remotely through an iPad app, which gives you a lot more control than the wired remote does.

[Barry Green]

In a short summary, what do you think are the main cons of ux180?

Well, I don't know the details of all the competitors so I don't know necessarily what they offer and what they're lacking, and what the UX180 has that they don't, or what it lacks that they have.

What I have found in watching and using these handheld cameras over the last 14 years is that they're all built to a certain price point, and each manufacturer crams in what they can and what they think the user will value most, as much as they can fit under the price cap. But you'll never get it all. If you want it all, you've got to spend more.

I find it a very well-rounded, robust camera with an extremely usable combination of features. But I know that one of the things people are going to complain about is that it doesn't have any provision for 10-bit; it records 8-bit 4:2:0 and it outputs 8-bit 4:2:2. It doesn't have raw output, it doesn't have 10-bit, and it doesn't have a logarithmic encoding option like VLOG. If you need 10-bit output and log, you can get that with the more-expensive DVX200, etc.

There are always things that you'll find that are limitations, the question is whether they'll limit your work. New Sonys, for example, apparently don't allow you to record internally and simultaneously output a video signal to both the LCD and also an external monitor (as discussed previously in this thread). Is that a problem? Not if you don't use an external monitor (or recorder) it isn't; if you're using the camera handheld and never use the SDI or HDMI live, then that'd be no problem at all. But for someone who uses the external monitor, it could be a dealbreaker, rendering the camera unusable for them. So that's the thing -- there's going to be limitations, you just have to determine if they'd limit your ability to work. If you absolutely have to have 10-bit internal, then you can cross the UX cameras off your list, as they don't have that. But do you absolutely have to have 10-bit internal? If you do, you're pretty much out of luck in terms of video cameras, I don't think any conventional video cameras record 10-bit UHD, do they?

The direct competitor that I see for the UX180 is the Sony Z150; they both have a 1" sensor and are priced around $3600. They seem reasonably similar; they both record 100mbps UHD, etc. The big differences I see are that the UX180 has a 20x zoom, the Z150 has a 12x; the UX180 supports UHD at 24, 25, 30, 50 & 59.94 fps, the Z150 does 24/25/30 but doesn't support 50 or 60. And the Z150 supports 10-bit HD recording/8-bit UHD; the UX180 is 8-bit for both HD and UHD.

I don't know how to compare them beyond that. Does the Z150 have the limitation on HDMI output while recording and using the LCD? I don't know. There are some things that will or won't affect you, that may or may not be an issue. For example, the UX180 supports video out onscreen display for HD, but not when recording UHD. Is that a serious limitation? I had one guy on DVXUser say that was a dealbreaker for him for the DVX200. I've used the DVX200 for a year and a half and I don't think I've ever even noticed that the text overlays aren't available in UHD, so it's a non-issue for me.

I don't think there's much wrong with the UX180, I think it's a lot of camera for the money and that it can do a lot of jobs. To me, it's more of a "DVX200" than the actual DVX200 is; the DVX100 was legendary as the do-all, do-everything camera, and the UX180 seems like the spiritual successor to that. The DVX200 was a bit too big and too heavy for long handheld days; I find it more at home on a tripod. It can be used handheld, but that's not where it shines. On the other hand, the UX180 gives more zoom range, a wider wide angle, a longer telephoto, and does it in a package that's two pounds less(!), so for all-day handheld work I'd say it's the much better choice. But the DVX200 has a sensor that's twice as big, and 10-bit output, and VLOG-L encoding -- so if you're making films, it's the better choice, even in spite of the UX180's particular advantages.

If you need an S35 sensor and internal ProRes or raw recording, the UX180 isn't for you. If you need a reasonably compact, lightweight camera with a big sensor (twice the size of a 2/3" sensor) and an incredibly useful zoom range (24mm wide, 480mm telephoto equivalents) with outstanding image stabilization, and reasonably small file sizes on inexpensive commodity media, then the UX180 might be ideal. But nothing's perfect, and all these cameras are built to fit under a certain price threshold, and there's only so much you can cram in a camera before it becomes too expensive. The UX90 is really remarkable for its price, I think, but it's missing a lot of features from the UX180. Then again, the UX90 costs almost half what a UX180 does. I think that if you've got the money to spend, you'd be best served with getting the UX180 over the UX90 as you really do get a lot more for your money. But that argument extends to all price brackets; if you can afford a $13,000 Sony FS7-II with its new zoom lens, you're going to get a lot more camera than the UX180 (as you should, for 3x the price). Even then, it's difficult to say that would be "better" because it depends on what you're doing with it; a UX180 would still likely be a better handheld/lightweight camera... and a GoPro would be a better helmet camera than both of 'em. :)

[Kenny Shem]

Hi Barry, yes you're right. Ultimately when buying any new camera, it bores down to what feature you are want for your kind of project. People may complain about UX180 not doing internal recording at 10 bits 422 but that's not an issue to me because that will bump up the file size and I do not intend to use to do heavy color grading nor green screen. Keeping the image as good as possible with low file size is important. V-log is also not important for events shooting. 1" sensor is also perfect to have deep DOF for live event as you do not want to keep on hunting for critical focus. UX180 ticks a lot of boxes in my buying list (4k, pal/ntsc system, UHD 50p/60p, 20X zoom, SDI out, SD cards instead of P2). I guess my only concern is the low light capability.

[Nate Haustein]

Barry, any idea on how well the UX90 and UX180 would match up in a multi am setup? I like to use UHD as my main angle for post zooming and then have the 2 close up cams work in HD. The UX90 sensor crop (and resulting sensitivity) is what worries me the most. But money talks and I think having the UX90s shoot in full-sensor HD would be perfectly fine as long as they're close to the same look. Thanks for your thoughts.

[Barry Green]

Originally Posted by Kenny Shem

I guess my only concern is the low light capability.

The UX180 is about 500 ISO, in terms of sensitivity. It has a "HIGH SENS" mode that gives it effectively double the sensitivity at about the same level of grain, so -- in low light scenarios, it's effectively about 1000 ISO.

I don't know how that compares to what you're used to? It's on par with the DVX200, if that helps.

[Barry Green]

Originally Posted by Nate Haustein

Barry, any idea on how well the UX90 and UX180 would match up in a multi am setup? I like to use UHD as my main angle for post zooming and then have the 2 close up cams work in HD. The UX90 sensor crop (and resulting sensitivity) is what worries me the most. But money talks and I think having the UX90s shoot in full-sensor HD would be perfectly fine as long as they're close to the same look. Thanks for your thoughts.

You can make them look practically identical. You would have to match the UX180 to the UX90's look, because the UX180 has a lot more image control options, but in terms of gamma and color you could make them look extremely, extremely similar. You'd have to spend a little time in the UX180's menus to paint it to line up with the UX90, but if you did so, you'd probably achieve excellent matching results.

In addition, they both have a "STILL LIKE" scene file, default scene file 4, that is designed to match the look of the GH4 in "Standard" profile. I haven't put both of those on the scope to see how closely they've accomplished it, but I would wager that they would look pretty comparable out of the box when both were set to that scene file.

[Jeremy Cole]

A couple more quick questions: is there a clear scan function in the UX180 and how many buttons can be customized and with which functions?

[Barry Green]

If by "clear scan" you mean the ability to set the shutter speed in tiny increments, then yes, the UX180 does have that; Panasonic calls it "Synchro Scan". The UX90 doesn't have that.

As for customizable buttons, Panasonic calls them "user buttons". There are 13 physical buttons that can be customized, and four "virtual" buttons (they show up on the LCD touch screen when you touch it). There are 45 different functions that you can assign to those buttons. Too many for me to try to list here and describe; you'd be best served to download the owner's manual and see them (starting on page 87). Owner's manual is available at http://pro-av.panasonic.net/manual/p...P1161ZA)_E.pdf

[Kenny Shem]

Hi Barry, how's the iZoom 30X performance in your opinion? Sony has this clear image zoom equivalent which double the zoom reach but I do notice image quality drop as you approach the longer end of it especially under low light. Not sure how's ux180 performance?

[Barry Green]

The UX180's iZoom is excellent, but do note that it only goes to 1.5x (i.e., it takes the 20x optical zoom to equivalent 30x).

It only functions in HD, there is no iZoom in UHD or 4K.

[Jeremy Cole]

I noticed that with the DVX200 that the super slow mode was not as crisp as normal footage. is this the case with this camera well. Is there a loss of resolution or have they changed that function at this level of camera?

[Pete Cofrancesco]

Can you set exposure compensation in these cameras? For example theatrical performance the background is often black. An unmanned camera filming the entire stage set to auto will over expose the actors unless you can set an exp compensation.

[Barry Green]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Cole

I noticed that with the DVX200 that the super slow mode was not as crisp as normal footage. is this the case with this camera well. Is there a loss of resolution or have they changed that function at this level of camera?

It is the same on the UX180.

[Barry Green]

Originally Posted by Pete Cofrancesco

Can you set exposure compensation in these cameras? For example theatrical performance the background is often black. An unmanned camera filming the entire stage set to auto will over expose the actors unless you can set an exp compensation.

Yes, there is a BACKLIGHT and a SPOTLIGHT mode for automatic exposure; in addition you can customize the level of overexposure or underexposure that you want the system to do in the AUTO IRIS LEVEL function.

[Pete Cofrancesco]

Originally Posted by Barry Green

Yes, there is a BACKLIGHT and a SPOTLIGHT mode for automatic exposure; in addition you can customize the level of overexposure or underexposure that you want the system to do in the AUTO IRIS LEVEL function.

Thanks. Is exposure compensation tied only to the iris and not the gain? For example in black background scenario camera set to auto iris and auto gain. I would turn on Spotlight and select the appropriate level. So what is the camera going to do with the gain. Asked more bluntly does AUTO IRIS LEVEL only compensate the iris while SPOTLIGHT/BACKLIGHT compensates anything set to auto? Sorry don't mean to be overly technical. The implementation seems not as straight forward as my current camera right or left joy stick adjusts exposure -6 to +6 or like in GH4 there's a compensation dial.