DVC30 vs.DCR-VX2100 HELP?

Mark Burlingame · June 10th, 2005, 04:34 PM

Hmmm... I think I am in the same boat. I have decided to sell my PV-DV953 and get a better camcorder and am trying to decide mainly between the DVC30 and the VX2100. right now I am not shooting 16:9 so besides the bigger CCDs of the sony, the DVC30 seems to be the winner of the price/performance decision. The cameras are around $600 apart... very tough call. Mark

Michael Rowe · June 12th, 2005, 12:31 PM

There is no rebate on the DVC30 at B&H without purchasing the AG-DV2500 VTR.

Thanks for the head's-up on that Steve--hope you're enjoying your new DVC30!

~Mike

Jeff Harper · June 29th, 2005, 10:57 AM

I have reviewed raw footage from both cameras and the difference in normal lighting is minimal, almost unnoticable. I had to strain to see extremely small differences in details that were totally insignifigant to me or my editor. The editor of my footage was totally surprised at the high quality from the DVC60.

I low light, the Sony is king. Period. However, for the money, in normal lighting conditions, I would not buy the Sony unless I had the money to spare.

The Sony is also excellent when left in AUTO for a wide range of conditions.

I favor the Panasonic whenever I want Pro Quality Sound. I hate Sony for leaving off XLR option on the 2100.

Felix Valeri · June 29th, 2005, 03:13 PM

if you are not on a budget how about this model from sony
saw it first hand at the sonystyle store here in houston and the sales rep said it has wysiwyg monitor first of its kind i believe.

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTE...efinitionVideo

Stephen L. Noe · August 10th, 2005, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommy Haupfear

The VX2100/VX2000 is pretty much unrivaled in low light performance by any other 1/3" or 1/4" 3CCD in its price range. The difference is quite remarkable and its the reason its been a staple in my collection for years.

Low light yes and grainy low light at that. I've shot DVC30 and VX2100 side by side at night and the VX2100 footage was very bad because of grain. The DVC30's blacks were black as we intended them to be.

Stephen L. Noe · August 10th, 2005, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Sakovski

i found my DVC30 produces a relativelly unsaturated picture, colors are muted and even with pedestal dialed down rather flat - very uncharascteristic of Pana cams of late. Dont get me wrong i dont bust the cam, its feature rich and good in very many other ways, important ways too. The DVC30 gotten hype-like reviews from many publications but its ultimatelly up to you to see if u like its footage or not. Personally, im not head ova heels about it, but lotsa ppl are.
As for the VX2100, from the grabs i seen it seems like its better PQ-wise, but what im amazed at the most is that the VX2K's got minimal artifacts, like edge enhancement and such.. very nice.

The fact is that the DVC30's color gamut on the waveform and vetroscope is full and rich covering the full broadcast color spectrum very well. What settings were you using for your test?

Tommy Haupfear · August 10th, 2005, 05:18 AM

Quote:

Low light yes and grainy low light at that.

I've also seen these two cams side by side and I'd have to disagree with your statement. I'm not sure what settings you had or the conditions but in my findings (over 200 tapes logged) the VX2100 is capable of discerning more detail with far less grain.

Georg Liigand · December 14th, 2005, 05:31 AM

The grain becomes more visible only in EXTREMELY low light conditions and so far I've encountered it only in a forest where they had some poor yellowish lights to make the track through the forest a bit more visible for your eye. In normal low light cases like city at night, there is pretty much no noise on the video. What I especially like with VX2100 is that even with max gain the colours stay good and the picture overally keeps its liveliness (many cameras tend to give very flat and greyish image with high gain).

I don't have any experience with Panasonic DVC30, but VX2100 is something I can certainly recommend.

Michael Fossenkemper · December 14th, 2005, 10:41 AM

I just shot a live show with both cameras. I own a dvc30 and rented a 2100. the 2100 was by far better in the low light. I think the dvc30 is better built and more rugged than the 2100 though. The 2100 needed color correction where as the dvc30 didn't need any under these conditions. But I needed to shoot at 1/30 shutter speed to get enough light into the dvc30 which ment a shot in quality. I like the color of the dvc30 better than the 2100 but then again maybe i'm just used to the dvc30 more than the 2100.

There are definately pros and cons to both cameras. But having used both, I think overall the dvc30 is more suited to me. The xlr adapter, better built, good picture. But if I were going to shoot something like the live show again, I'll be renting that 2100 again.

Michael Fossenkemper · December 15th, 2005, 11:16 PM

here are some videos shot with both the dvc30 and the 2100. click on the videos link. the 2100 is from the right, the hand held from all other angles is the dvc30 with a wide angle lens. besides the crappy camera work, you can get a sense of the detail differences. The 2100 had color correction where as the dvc30 didn't have any. But even though, under these conditions I think the 2100 did better. With the wide angle adapter, I had to shoot the dvc30 at 1/30 shutter speed to get more light. so there is less detail because it's the same as that frame mode. I also had a bit of a problem with focus on the dvc30 through the eyepiece. It's my first videos

http://www.hollinssteele.com/

Georg Liigand · December 16th, 2005, 05:37 PM

Nice clips! Did you use them both in built-in widescreen mode?

Actually the 2100 is one of the most rugged and well-built cameras I've ever seen and I'm not the only one saying this :) I don't know what made you thinking differently though ;)

Michael Fossenkemper · December 16th, 2005, 10:00 PM

I did shoot them both in squeeze mode. my thought was 16:9 but in the end I figured it would be more suited to their needs to do letter box so I should have probably just shot 4:3 and cropped. Live and learn.

It is a fairly rugged camera, but not compared to the dvc30. the dvc30 feels like you can drop kick it, pick it up and keep filming, although I haven't actually tried this yet.

Georg Liigand · December 17th, 2005, 11:33 AM

LOL, I hope you will not try that! :)

By cropping you would have got 4:3 footage with some kind of widescreen look, but with the camera's 16:9 it is still widescreen, although a bit more blurry in TV. I think you can do a similar 4:3 -> 16:9 conversion like the camera does, in your non-linear editor as well, but I'm not sure if the result would be better or worse.

The VX2100 footage in your videos looks better in colours, but it's probably just because of the awesome low-light of the Sony. I'm sure the DVC is great in better light, but I've never seen any daylight footage of it unfortunately :(

Tom Hardwick · December 17th, 2005, 12:52 PM

The two cameras are really aimed at different market segments, and the DVX is the real 2100 competitor in my view.

But the 30 does have its merits. A big side screen and that lovely Leica lens certainly pulls in the punters in the camera shop. But when you read the forums it's the Sony that wins the plaudits, and it's not just its info-lithiums, its zoom ring, its low light supremacy (even Panasonic admit that) and faster lens.

It's the fact that the 2100 has bigger chips and shares the same lens and chip-block assembly as the PD170. With that sort of pedigree the 2100 has sold by the skip-full, and deservedly so. It does need a Beachtek hanging underneath, but that's why the PD series exists.

Go for the VX if you're serious, if only because those bigger chips and half-stop faster lens will give you much more beautiful differential focus.

tom.

Michael Fossenkemper · December 17th, 2005, 05:21 PM

Idealy I would like to own both cameras. The DVC30 is good for running around with the camera in a backpack and xlr adapter for the shotgun outside. Inside, the 2100 is much better and would probably be sitting on a tripod so an xlr adapter wouldn't be much of a burden. But then i'm getting closer in price to a PD170, which is really what I want. I've made a few bucks with the DVC30 shooting triathalons and promo stuff for a store, so with that and boy whoring I should have enough to buy a sony of some kind. Just kidding by the way, about the triathalon stuff.

June 10th, 2005, 04:34 PM	#16
Mark Burlingame Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Oakland, CA Posts: 77	Hmmm... I think I am in the same boat. I have decided to sell my PV-DV953 and get a better camcorder and am trying to decide mainly between the DVC30 and the VX2100. right now I am not shooting 16:9 so besides the bigger CCDs of the sony, the DVC30 seems to be the winner of the price/performance decision. The cameras are around $600 apart... very tough call. Mark __________________ DVX100a, PV-DV953 Rode NT3, NT1a, videomic Raynox HD6600pro WA Lens Vegas6+DVD

June 12th, 2005, 12:31 PM	#17
Michael Rowe Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cambridge, MA Posts: 84	advice on where to purchase/erroneous post There is no rebate on the DVC30 at B&H without purchasing the AG-DV2500 VTR. Thanks for the head's-up on that Steve--hope you're enjoying your new DVC30! ~Mike

June 29th, 2005, 10:57 AM	#18
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Dvc30/60 Vs Vx2100 I have reviewed raw footage from both cameras and the difference in normal lighting is minimal, almost unnoticable. I had to strain to see extremely small differences in details that were totally insignifigant to me or my editor. The editor of my footage was totally surprised at the high quality from the DVC60. I low light, the Sony is king. Period. However, for the money, in normal lighting conditions, I would not buy the Sony unless I had the money to spare. The Sony is also excellent when left in AUTO for a wide range of conditions. I favor the Panasonic whenever I want Pro Quality Sound. I hate Sony for leaving off XLR option on the 2100.

June 29th, 2005, 03:13 PM	#19
Felix Valeri New Boot Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: houston tx Posts: 12	if you are not on a budget how about this model from sony saw it first hand at the sonystyle store here in houston and the sales rep said it has wysiwyg monitor first of its kind i believe. http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTE...efinitionVideo __________________ asus p4p800 2.6ghz 8oomhz fsb cpu ht matrox rtx.10 Pny GeForce 5700ve 256mb nec nd2500 dvdrw 160gb hd (AVI) 111gb capture drive 80gb Main drive windows xp pro sp2 adobe-photoshop cs2 premiere pro 1.5.1 and 2.0 encore dvd 2.0, after effects pro 2.0

December 14th, 2005, 10:41 AM	#24
Michael Fossenkemper Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: NYC, weeee. Posts: 417	both cams I just shot a live show with both cameras. I own a dvc30 and rented a 2100. the 2100 was by far better in the low light. I think the dvc30 is better built and more rugged than the 2100 though. The 2100 needed color correction where as the dvc30 didn't need any under these conditions. But I needed to shoot at 1/30 shutter speed to get enough light into the dvc30 which ment a shot in quality. I like the color of the dvc30 better than the 2100 but then again maybe i'm just used to the dvc30 more than the 2100. There are definately pros and cons to both cameras. But having used both, I think overall the dvc30 is more suited to me. The xlr adapter, better built, good picture. But if I were going to shoot something like the live show again, I'll be renting that 2100 again.

December 14th, 2005, 05:31 AM	#23
Georg Liigand Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Estonia Posts: 214	The grain becomes more visible only in EXTREMELY low light conditions and so far I've encountered it only in a forest where they had some poor yellowish lights to make the track through the forest a bit more visible for your eye. In normal low light cases like city at night, there is pretty much no noise on the video. What I especially like with VX2100 is that even with max gain the colours stay good and the picture overally keeps its liveliness (many cameras tend to give very flat and greyish image with high gain). I don't have any experience with Panasonic DVC30, but VX2100 is something I can certainly recommend.

December 15th, 2005, 11:16 PM	#25
Michael Fossenkemper Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: NYC, weeee. Posts: 417	comparison here are some videos shot with both the dvc30 and the 2100. click on the videos link. the 2100 is from the right, the hand held from all other angles is the dvc30 with a wide angle lens. besides the crappy camera work, you can get a sense of the detail differences. The 2100 had color correction where as the dvc30 didn't have any. But even though, under these conditions I think the 2100 did better. With the wide angle adapter, I had to shoot the dvc30 at 1/30 shutter speed to get more light. so there is less detail because it's the same as that frame mode. I also had a bit of a problem with focus on the dvc30 through the eyepiece. It's my first videos http://www.hollinssteele.com/

December 16th, 2005, 05:37 PM	#26
Georg Liigand Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Estonia Posts: 214	Nice clips! Did you use them both in built-in widescreen mode? Actually the 2100 is one of the most rugged and well-built cameras I've ever seen and I'm not the only one saying this :) I don't know what made you thinking differently though ;)

December 16th, 2005, 10:00 PM	#27
Michael Fossenkemper Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: NYC, weeee. Posts: 417	thanks I did shoot them both in squeeze mode. my thought was 16:9 but in the end I figured it would be more suited to their needs to do letter box so I should have probably just shot 4:3 and cropped. Live and learn. It is a fairly rugged camera, but not compared to the dvc30. the dvc30 feels like you can drop kick it, pick it up and keep filming, although I haven't actually tried this yet.

December 17th, 2005, 11:33 AM	#28
Georg Liigand Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Estonia Posts: 214	LOL, I hope you will not try that! :) By cropping you would have got 4:3 footage with some kind of widescreen look, but with the camera's 16:9 it is still widescreen, although a bit more blurry in TV. I think you can do a similar 4:3 -> 16:9 conversion like the camera does, in your non-linear editor as well, but I'm not sure if the result would be better or worse. The VX2100 footage in your videos looks better in colours, but it's probably just because of the awesome low-light of the Sony. I'm sure the DVC is great in better light, but I've never seen any daylight footage of it unfortunately :(

December 17th, 2005, 12:52 PM	#29
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	The two cameras are really aimed at different market segments, and the DVX is the real 2100 competitor in my view. But the 30 does have its merits. A big side screen and that lovely Leica lens certainly pulls in the punters in the camera shop. But when you read the forums it's the Sony that wins the plaudits, and it's not just its info-lithiums, its zoom ring, its low light supremacy (even Panasonic admit that) and faster lens. It's the fact that the 2100 has bigger chips and shares the same lens and chip-block assembly as the PD170. With that sort of pedigree the 2100 has sold by the skip-full, and deservedly so. It does need a Beachtek hanging underneath, but that's why the PD series exists. Go for the VX if you're serious, if only because those bigger chips and half-stop faster lens will give you much more beautiful differential focus. tom.

December 17th, 2005, 05:21 PM	#30
Michael Fossenkemper Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: NYC, weeee. Posts: 417	idealy Idealy I would like to own both cameras. The DVC30 is good for running around with the camera in a backpack and xlr adapter for the shotgun outside. Inside, the 2100 is much better and would probably be sitting on a tripod so an xlr adapter wouldn't be much of a burden. But then i'm getting closer in price to a PD170, which is really what I want. I've made a few bucks with the DVC30 shooting triathalons and promo stuff for a store, so with that and boy whoring I should have enough to buy a sony of some kind. Just kidding by the way, about the triathalon stuff.