AG-DVC60 various topics

Tony Hall · November 21st, 2004, 10:50 AM

It's really kind of infuriating that there's not a single website on the internet, including the Panasonic site, that says what's in the DVC60's menus. I know the DVC30 has "detail" controls, because it says "parameters that will be memorized include detail, chroma-level, chroma-phase, color temperature, master pedestal and skin-tone detail" at the B&H site, but there's no information about the DVC60. This is important to whether or not I want the camera.

I wonder why Canon and Panasonic are being so secretive lately... not posting product manuals for their new cameras.

Tony Hall · November 23rd, 2004, 11:31 AM

Doesn't anyone on this forum own a DVC60? I'd just like to ask you a few questions?

Brian Carrell · November 23rd, 2004, 05:16 PM

I own a DVC30. Before I purchased the DVC30, I downloaded their 10 page brochures for both the 60 and the 30, as well as the manuals. The software and menus were the same for both models. I was checking that out because the price of the DVC60 -back then- was much more, and I wanted to know what the differences were.

I'm gonna try and find the links for the manuals (they came from elsewhere than Panasonic USA) and I'll post them if I find them.

Brian

Brian Carrell · November 23rd, 2004, 05:30 PM

here's the NTSC DVC60 Brochure

http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp...E%20Camcorders

click on "brochure"

here's the NTSC DVC30 Brochure

http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp...Model=AG-DVC30

click on "brochure"

still looking for the links for the manuals I found a while back

Brian Carrell · November 23rd, 2004, 06:03 PM

OK, I found the manuals from the Panasonic Broadcast europe website

here's the link:

http://panasonic-broadcast.com/index...D=66&PID=11456

(sorry I don't know how to properly format the urls on this forum)

its called "operating instructions" right click to download the file, for some reason it wants to download as a .cfm file, so I just changed it to .pdf and it opened fine.

These are the Pal versions of the camera manuals, so the frame size and resolution frame rates, and shutter speeds might be different than NTSC, but It guides you through all the menus and adjustments and the like.

Brian

Tony Hall · November 24th, 2004, 10:59 AM

Rock on Brian! Thanks a lot, I'm downloading it now.

Agus Casse · March 11th, 2005, 11:29 PM

Here is a frame with the 30p effect... it is pretty impresive.. there is no filters.. just stock movie look scene

http://www.altoque.tv/jaguartest.jpg

Jesse Bekas · March 13th, 2005, 09:41 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Sean McHenry : Well, as a Panasonic dealer for Broadcast, you would think I would know that wouldn't you. Too many products to keep up with. Still, doesn't make any sense to me to put it on there if you don't have a cinema (24p) mode.->>>

Why doesn't it make sense to have Cinegamma without 24P? One is for exposure lattitude looks, and the other is for a filmic motion look. Related, but certainly not dependent.

Sean McHenry · March 16th, 2005, 08:52 AM

Most of the newer cameras in the higher pro-sumer bracket - XL2, etc, have enough color tools in the menus to play with to achieve this on your own. They may not have a "cinema" setting but they are getting better control over their color.

On the other hand a true cinema color setup would be more than dialing in a bit of extra red or blue. There are headroom factors as well as dynamic range, detail in the shadows (black stretch) etc. Some of the cameras do have a cinema like mode now. Without the motion of 24p, personally, it seems a bit odd to have a cinema color range without that stutter. Maybe at 30p it might look reasonable.

Sean

Michele Coser · June 16th, 2005, 10:34 AM

Hi to all, i'm new. My name is Michele, from italy.
I have a small camcorder (sony dcr-hc18e). I wont to buy a more powerful cam, but i can't wont to spend too much for something like an xl2 or an
ag-dvx100.
I have seen the Ag-dvc60, i like the shape, the fact that is a shoulder type and not hand-held. I know is not at the same level of the previously mentioned cameras. I have intention to do some short movies, and i need a camera that work good also for night and without light shots (don't mind about the infrared or nightshot plus-like thing), and probably i'll do some other things like documentaries, interview...

Can anyone help me and explain the good and bad thing about this camera?
(i have already read the promotional .pdf file, but i wont to see user's opinions), or maybe someone can post or send me pics or video of something filmed at night (and also in daylight).

Thanx, and sorry for the wrong language.

Jeff Harper · June 19th, 2005, 10:27 PM

I own the DVC60 and I love many features about it.

The bad is if you add a microphone the microphone must have its own battery. The camera does not have phantom power for microphone, even though it has XLR connectors. This is strange, because the DVC30 does provide phantom power.

Another potential problem is the little documented problem of distorted audio in loud environments. You must insist that the DVC60 has a serial number that begins with a C, D, or E or greater. This first letter in the serial number represents the month of manufacture. Models manufactured prior, such as L (December of 2004) serial numbers, have bad audio. Panasonic will fix the problem, but what a hassle.

Overall, the DVC30 is a better camera, but it obviously doesn't have shoulder mount. The DVC 30 lens is superior, because it has a Lieca lens, the DVC60 does not. The DVC30 also has a 3.5 inch LCD Finder, the DVC60 has a 2.5 LCD. The DVC30 has a very desirable black and white viewfinder, the DVC60 does not.

If you buy the DVC30 you should consider buying the XLR adapter and an optional microphone, and you should be ready to go. A wide angle lens adapter is nice also, you would need one 43mm size. Tiffin makes the one you would want, because it is threaded on both ends, which allows you to add a polarizer to the wide angle. The Panasonic wide angle adapter is twice the price, and does not have threads. I would purchase the lens adapter for the DVC60 as well, because the DVC30 and DVC60 are not as good as I like when opened up to full wide.

The first step up from these two cameras in quality worth spending money is the VX2100 by Sony, which has superior low light imaging and is wider when fully open.

Problem with the Sony is the viewfinder is half the size of the Panasonic. I have worked with the sony, and it is an excellent camera, but it is harder to see what you are shooting. The Sony VX2100 also lacks XLR connectors, a well-know and perplexing omission. With XLR connectors, I would choose the Sony any day. Based purely on image quality, I would go with the Sony as well. It also handles extremely well. I shot a wedding with one yesterday, and was amazed at how well-balanced and easy to handle it was.

The DVC60 is a great camera for the money, but I am extremely disappointed the it lacks phantom power for microphone and has bad audio. I am sending mine back, and am likely getting the DVC30. However, if you must have the shoulder mount, the 60 is the highest quality camcorder in this price range that is shoulder mounted, so if this is necessary for you and you're on a budget, it is the best choice.

The picture quality is excellent in the DVC60, and it has many features of more expensive cameras, though some of these features are difficult to access.

Good Luck

Michele Coser · June 21st, 2005, 03:49 AM

And, about night settings? I ask beacuse i plan to realize a short cyberpunk movie, and is entirely filmed at night, some parts are on city streets, some in interiors.

There is a strange thing about the ag-dvc60 here in italy. The price range from 4500 to 3500 euro in some places (more than a sony Vx2100 and also a Fx1); from Golbalmediapro i can buy at nearly 2600 euro...

Jeff Harper · June 24th, 2005, 09:34 AM

Michele,

The DVC30/60 does not compare in low light to the Sony VX2100 very well. The Sony has a much bigger lens, and 3 1/3" CCD's. While the DVC60 has the infrared capabilities, that is only effective in pitch dark. I work with the Panasonic and the Sony, and for the money the Sony is the best camera in low light conditions. I have seen finished work in both, and there is no comparison.

Videomaker magazine says:

"Bottom line: the VX2100 produces some of the best video of any sub-$5,000 camera... All we can say is that the VX2100 retains the truly excellent low-light performance of its predecessor, largely because of the light-gulping 58mm lens and the good CCDs.in both, and it is true."

This entire review is located at: http://www.videomaker.com/scripts/article.cfm?id=10189

If you do a search on Sony VX2100 vs Panasonic DVC60 you might find other reviews info to help you decide. Also, you can always by a shoulder mount kit if needed.

Michele Coser · June 25th, 2005, 03:11 AM

I'm a bit undecided. But since i've also to buy a full rig steadycam, and now i dont know the price, i'll have to wait.
And, it may sound stupid, but the ag-dvc60 has also the shape and the look that attract me more than any other cameras of this type. The main problem is the price, as i've said in italy they are more high than any other country.
I hope to buy the stradycam in one or two weeks; after that i'll see for the camera... anyway, tanks for the informations.

P.S. Most of the Ag-dvc60 reviews found on the net are not real reviews; they report the same things written in the brochure.

Jeff Harper · June 30th, 2005, 06:28 PM

http://reviews.cnet.com/Panasonic_AG...DVC60&part=rss

http://videosystems.com/mag/video_panasonic_agdvc_2/

What you are referring to as reviews for the DVC60 that consist of text from the manufacturer are not reviews...they are simply blurbs.

The only two reviews I have found for the DVC60 are above...

If you like the looks of the DVC60, I must admit it is extremely nice to work with. The viewfinder is very large, and can be move side to side. With this camera on your shoulder it is extremely easy to shoot steady footage and it is extra easy to frame your shots because you are so comfortable with this camera. The Sony is better image wise, but I hate the handheld factor. As I said before, good luck.

November 21st, 2004, 10:50 AM	#16
Tony Hall Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: springfield, OH Posts: 344	It's really kind of infuriating that there's not a single website on the internet, including the Panasonic site, that says what's in the DVC60's menus. I know the DVC30 has "detail" controls, because it says "parameters that will be memorized include detail, chroma-level, chroma-phase, color temperature, master pedestal and skin-tone detail" at the B&H site, but there's no information about the DVC60. This is important to whether or not I want the camera. I wonder why Canon and Panasonic are being so secretive lately... not posting product manuals for their new cameras. __________________ Tony "Good taste is the enemy of creativity" - Picasso Blog: http://www.tonyhall.name

November 23rd, 2004, 11:31 AM	#17
Tony Hall Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: springfield, OH Posts: 344	Doesn't anyone on this forum own a DVC60? I'd just like to ask you a few questions? __________________ Tony "Good taste is the enemy of creativity" - Picasso Blog: http://www.tonyhall.name

November 23rd, 2004, 05:16 PM	#18
Brian Carrell Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Santa Cruz, CA, Seattle, WA, and abroad.... Posts: 65	DVC60 and 30 I own a DVC30. Before I purchased the DVC30, I downloaded their 10 page brochures for both the 60 and the 30, as well as the manuals. The software and menus were the same for both models. I was checking that out because the price of the DVC60 -back then- was much more, and I wanted to know what the differences were. I'm gonna try and find the links for the manuals (they came from elsewhere than Panasonic USA) and I'll post them if I find them. Brian

November 23rd, 2004, 05:30 PM	#19
Brian Carrell Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Santa Cruz, CA, Seattle, WA, and abroad.... Posts: 65	brochure links here's the NTSC DVC60 Brochure http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp...E%20Camcorders click on "brochure" here's the NTSC DVC30 Brochure http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp...Model=AG-DVC30 click on "brochure" still looking for the links for the manuals I found a while back

November 23rd, 2004, 06:03 PM	#20
Brian Carrell Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Santa Cruz, CA, Seattle, WA, and abroad.... Posts: 65	operating instructions OK, I found the manuals from the Panasonic Broadcast europe website here's the link: http://panasonic-broadcast.com/index...D=66&PID=11456 (sorry I don't know how to properly format the urls on this forum) its called "operating instructions" right click to download the file, for some reason it wants to download as a .cfm file, so I just changed it to .pdf and it opened fine. These are the Pal versions of the camera manuals, so the frame size and resolution frame rates, and shutter speeds might be different than NTSC, but It guides you through all the menus and adjustments and the like. Brian

November 24th, 2004, 10:59 AM	#21
Tony Hall Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: springfield, OH Posts: 344	Rock on Brian! Thanks a lot, I'm downloading it now. __________________ Tony "Good taste is the enemy of creativity" - Picasso Blog: http://www.tonyhall.name

March 11th, 2005, 11:29 PM	#22
Agus Casse Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Guatemala Posts: 322	Here is a frame with the 30p effect... it is pretty impresive.. there is no filters.. just stock movie look scene http://www.altoque.tv/jaguartest.jpg __________________ Agus35 - the ultimate tool for indie DV filmakers -

March 13th, 2005, 09:41 AM	#23
Jesse Bekas Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Ridgefield Park, New Jersey, USA Posts: 572	<<<-- Originally posted by Sean McHenry : Well, as a Panasonic dealer for Broadcast, you would think I would know that wouldn't you. Too many products to keep up with. Still, doesn't make any sense to me to put it on there if you don't have a cinema (24p) mode.->>> Why doesn't it make sense to have Cinegamma without 24P? One is for exposure lattitude looks, and the other is for a filmic motion look. Related, but certainly not dependent.

March 16th, 2005, 08:52 AM	#24
Sean McHenry Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hilliard, Ohio Posts: 1,193	Most of the newer cameras in the higher pro-sumer bracket - XL2, etc, have enough color tools in the menus to play with to achieve this on your own. They may not have a "cinema" setting but they are getting better control over their color. On the other hand a true cinema color setup would be more than dialing in a bit of extra red or blue. There are headroom factors as well as dynamic range, detail in the shadows (black stretch) etc. Some of the cameras do have a cinema like mode now. Without the motion of 24p, personally, it seems a bit odd to have a cinema color range without that stutter. Maybe at 30p it might look reasonable. Sean __________________ ‘I don’t know what I’m doing, and I’m shooting on D.V.’ - my hero - David Lynch http://www.DeepBlueEdit.com

June 16th, 2005, 10:34 AM	#25
Michele Coser Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Parma - Italy Posts: 91	Ag-dvc60 info Hi to all, i'm new. My name is Michele, from italy. I have a small camcorder (sony dcr-hc18e). I wont to buy a more powerful cam, but i can't wont to spend too much for something like an xl2 or an ag-dvx100. I have seen the Ag-dvc60, i like the shape, the fact that is a shoulder type and not hand-held. I know is not at the same level of the previously mentioned cameras. I have intention to do some short movies, and i need a camera that work good also for night and without light shots (don't mind about the infrared or nightshot plus-like thing), and probably i'll do some other things like documentaries, interview... Can anyone help me and explain the good and bad thing about this camera? (i have already read the promotional .pdf file, but i wont to see user's opinions), or maybe someone can post or send me pics or video of something filmed at night (and also in daylight). Thanx, and sorry for the wrong language.

June 19th, 2005, 10:27 PM	#26
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	DVC 60 good and bad I own the DVC60 and I love many features about it. The bad is if you add a microphone the microphone must have its own battery. The camera does not have phantom power for microphone, even though it has XLR connectors. This is strange, because the DVC30 does provide phantom power. Another potential problem is the little documented problem of distorted audio in loud environments. You must insist that the DVC60 has a serial number that begins with a C, D, or E or greater. This first letter in the serial number represents the month of manufacture. Models manufactured prior, such as L (December of 2004) serial numbers, have bad audio. Panasonic will fix the problem, but what a hassle. Overall, the DVC30 is a better camera, but it obviously doesn't have shoulder mount. The DVC 30 lens is superior, because it has a Lieca lens, the DVC60 does not. The DVC30 also has a 3.5 inch LCD Finder, the DVC60 has a 2.5 LCD. The DVC30 has a very desirable black and white viewfinder, the DVC60 does not. If you buy the DVC30 you should consider buying the XLR adapter and an optional microphone, and you should be ready to go. A wide angle lens adapter is nice also, you would need one 43mm size. Tiffin makes the one you would want, because it is threaded on both ends, which allows you to add a polarizer to the wide angle. The Panasonic wide angle adapter is twice the price, and does not have threads. I would purchase the lens adapter for the DVC60 as well, because the DVC30 and DVC60 are not as good as I like when opened up to full wide. The first step up from these two cameras in quality worth spending money is the VX2100 by Sony, which has superior low light imaging and is wider when fully open. Problem with the Sony is the viewfinder is half the size of the Panasonic. I have worked with the sony, and it is an excellent camera, but it is harder to see what you are shooting. The Sony VX2100 also lacks XLR connectors, a well-know and perplexing omission. With XLR connectors, I would choose the Sony any day. Based purely on image quality, I would go with the Sony as well. It also handles extremely well. I shot a wedding with one yesterday, and was amazed at how well-balanced and easy to handle it was. The DVC60 is a great camera for the money, but I am extremely disappointed the it lacks phantom power for microphone and has bad audio. I am sending mine back, and am likely getting the DVC30. However, if you must have the shoulder mount, the 60 is the highest quality camcorder in this price range that is shoulder mounted, so if this is necessary for you and you're on a budget, it is the best choice. The picture quality is excellent in the DVC60, and it has many features of more expensive cameras, though some of these features are difficult to access. Good Luck Last edited by Jeff Harper; June 19th, 2005 at 11:02 PM. Reason: Incomplete

June 21st, 2005, 03:49 AM	#27
Michele Coser Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Parma - Italy Posts: 91	And, about night settings? I ask beacuse i plan to realize a short cyberpunk movie, and is entirely filmed at night, some parts are on city streets, some in interiors. There is a strange thing about the ag-dvc60 here in italy. The price range from 4500 to 3500 euro in some places (more than a sony Vx2100 and also a Fx1); from Golbalmediapro i can buy at nearly 2600 euro...

June 24th, 2005, 09:34 AM	#28
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Low light Michele, The DVC30/60 does not compare in low light to the Sony VX2100 very well. The Sony has a much bigger lens, and 3 1/3" CCD's. While the DVC60 has the infrared capabilities, that is only effective in pitch dark. I work with the Panasonic and the Sony, and for the money the Sony is the best camera in low light conditions. I have seen finished work in both, and there is no comparison. Videomaker magazine says: "Bottom line: the VX2100 produces some of the best video of any sub-$5,000 camera... All we can say is that the VX2100 retains the truly excellent low-light performance of its predecessor, largely because of the light-gulping 58mm lens and the good CCDs.in both, and it is true." This entire review is located at: http://www.videomaker.com/scripts/article.cfm?id=10189 If you do a search on Sony VX2100 vs Panasonic DVC60 you might find other reviews info to help you decide. Also, you can always by a shoulder mount kit if needed.

June 25th, 2005, 03:11 AM	#29
Michele Coser Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Parma - Italy Posts: 91	I'm a bit undecided. But since i've also to buy a full rig steadycam, and now i dont know the price, i'll have to wait. And, it may sound stupid, but the ag-dvc60 has also the shape and the look that attract me more than any other cameras of this type. The main problem is the price, as i've said in italy they are more high than any other country. I hope to buy the stradycam in one or two weeks; after that i'll see for the camera... anyway, tanks for the informations. P.S. Most of the Ag-dvc60 reviews found on the net are not real reviews; they report the same things written in the brochure.

June 30th, 2005, 06:28 PM	#30
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Dvc60 http://reviews.cnet.com/Panasonic_AG...DVC60&part=rss http://videosystems.com/mag/video_panasonic_agdvc_2/ What you are referring to as reviews for the DVC60 that consist of text from the manufacturer are not reviews...they are simply blurbs. The only two reviews I have found for the DVC60 are above... If you like the looks of the DVC60, I must admit it is extremely nice to work with. The viewfinder is very large, and can be move side to side. With this camera on your shoulder it is extremely easy to shoot steady footage and it is extra easy to frame your shots because you are so comfortable with this camera. The Sony is better image wise, but I hate the handheld factor. As I said before, good luck.