pd150 tape won't playback on dvc80.. at DVinfo.net

Karen Grayson · July 19th, 2004, 06:42 PM

hi all,

Question: is there a reason a tape recorded on a pd150 [sp mode] now won't playback [so i can capture it] on my dvc80?
I'm almost positive my assistant didn't shoot in dvcam mode.
what happens when i do play it in the dvc80 is, i get just the blue vcr screen and no rolling timecode, but i can see that the tape is moving .

What is strange is that i did playback the tape right after the wedding to check out the footage and it worked..hmm i'm baffled!

also, i was ABLE TO PLAYBACK & CAPTURE from 2 of his other pd150 tapes. I'm baffled.

Anyone have an idea what's up?

thank you!
karen

John Britt · July 20th, 2004, 12:51 PM

Not to ask a "dummy" question, but did you try cleaning the heads? The symptoms you describe are indictive of dirty heads, and the fact that you are trying to watch multiple tapes from another camera might also indicate a need to clean.

Frederic Segard · July 20th, 2004, 02:01 PM

Sounds to me that it was recorded in DVCAM mode and not SP mode. As John said, just in case, use a cleaning tape. But I doubt its going to do anything if all you see is a blue screen.

Either that, or the tape is blank!

John Britt · July 20th, 2004, 02:44 PM

Very good point about DVCAM, Frederic, although I must add that when I have mixed brands of tape, I get a blue screen with no timecode, just as Karen described. The problem is always fixed by running a cleaning tape for 5 seconds.

Barry Green · July 20th, 2004, 03:52 PM

DVCAM shouldn't be a problem. The DVX100 can play back DVCAM tapes just fine, and I would certainly expect the DVC80 to be able to do so as well (but maybe not?)

Patrick King · July 20th, 2004, 04:00 PM

Barry,

Can the DVX100 playback:

DVCAM tapes recorded in the PD150 as DV?
DVCAM tapes recorded in the PD150 as DVCAM?

Sorry for having to ask what may be obvious to you.

Patrick

Karen Grayson · July 20th, 2004, 04:37 PM

hi guys,

i don't have the pd150 here. My assistant borrowed it from his school. He's a pretty smart guy and knows about the dvcam settings etc..and said he def. taped in sp mode.

I'm afraid to run the cleaning tape on my dvc80 cause i've only used it on a handful of events.

whats weird is that i played back one of the tapes [that now wont playback] the day after the wedding and it played back fine..

also, we were both using the same exact manuf. tapes..panny mq63's..

thanks
karen

John Britt · July 20th, 2004, 05:04 PM

Run the cleaning tape.

It's not good to do it excessively, but if you are experiencing a problem with symptoms indicative of gunked up heads, then it only makes sense to clean the heads. It doesn't matter if you've only used the DVC80 a little bit. 5 seconds of cleaning tape isn't going to damage the camera. Take it from another DVC80 user.

You may be using the same brand of tape, but it's possible that the tapes picked up gunk from the PD150 (which has probably seen more action than the DVC80 and could possibly use a cleaning itself)

It may not fix the problem -- then again it just might. Why pay to tow your stalled car to the mechanic when you can first make sure the gas tank isn't empty? ... if you know what I mean...

Barry Green · July 20th, 2004, 09:44 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Patrick King : Barry,

Can the DVX100 playback:

DVCAM tapes recorded in the PD150 as DV?
DVCAM tapes recorded in the PD150 as DVCAM?

Sorry for having to ask what may be obvious to you.

Patrick -->>>

The confusion comes about because DV and DVCAM are largely interchangeable. The tape is interchangeable, for example: you can put a mini-DV tape in a DVCAM deck, or a mini-DVCAM tape in a DV deck, and it'll work just fine. So the tape is not the issue.

The issue is what mode gets recorded on the tape. If you record DVCAM on a tape and then try to play that tape back on, say, a Sony VX1000 (released pre-DVCAM), you're hosed... whether you recorded it on DVCAM tape or DV tape, the data on the tape is DVCAM, and that particular camera can't record it.

But, with the DVX, that's all irrelevant. It can play back DV or DVCAM data, whether recorded on DV or DVCAM tape. It was quite a surprise to me when I first found it out, but it definitely works just fine -- I have tapes here that were dubbed onto DSR-30 DVCAM by a post house, and when I play 'em on my DV deck the "DVCAM" light comes on to signify that it's playing back DVCAM data, and they work just fine in the DVX100 as well. I didn't expect them to, I didn't think any non-Sony cameras played back DVCAM (all Sony cameras except the original VX1000 and VX700 can play DVCAM, but I didn't think any other manufacturer's cams could). But the DVX100 does, so I would *guess* that the DVC80 could as well.

Jesse Bekas · July 21st, 2004, 06:29 PM

If one out of three tapes you're trying to play back is not working it isn't a problem with the VTR, so don't clean the heads and risk wearing them down. Assume the tape either has nothing on it, or has some other problem. I think the VTR in the DVC, and DVX are the same. If one plays back DVCAM, they both should.

John Britt · July 21st, 2004, 06:52 PM

Jesse

As she said 4 posts above, there was one tape that played fine earlier, but won't play now.

5 seconds of cleaning tape isn't going to damage the heads. This is a really reactionary response that too many people seem to have. Using cleaning tape too often is bad. Using it when the situation seems to require it is OK. Sometimes you just have to clean the heads. What else are you going to do? Ship it back to Panasonic for head repairs -- only to be told that all it needed was a cleaning?

Again, I'm not saying that cleaning is a definite fix. But the problems she describes are symptomatic of dirty heads, and I say that from experience. Why avoid the giant pink elephant in the corner? Cleaning the heads is a simple, straightforward, and easy first step. There is logical form to follow for problem solving, and doing the simplest, most obvious thing should always be the first step. Get that out of the way, and if it doesn't work, move to the next step up.

(and no, I don't know why this topic has become the one thing I've posted most about recently...)

Jesse Bekas · July 21st, 2004, 07:51 PM

I knew she said the tape had played back, but I was assuming she meant in the PD150, because she said it was the day after the wedding. What I didn't consider is that the tape must than, in fact, have video on it.

The only reason I reacted strongly to the the head cleaning is because I know a careless person that needed head replacements, because he didn't read the instructions on the package and would run the cleaner for 30 seconds like the older crappy VCR head cleaners, and did it regularly whether the cam needed it or not. I should have instead posted a reminder of how long to run the cleaner.

John Britt · July 21st, 2004, 08:24 PM

Ehh, I'm just being ornery tonight. Actually, I went and watched some the ATHF Vol. 2 DVD and now I feel a lot better.

You are right about being cautious with the cleaning tape, though. I have less than 100 hours on my DVC80, but I've probably run the cleaning tape through it 4 or 5 times -- only for 5 seconds each time -- and have seen no ill effects. The times I have run it have been usually because I found myself in a situation where I had no choice but to use (or view) a different brand of tape, or because I was going to a once-in-a-lifetime shoot and didn't want to come home with a blank tape. But I never run it more than 5 seconds, and I don't make it a regular habit. That is very good advice you gave, Jesse.

(By the way, I think I figured out why I'm so immersed in this particular thread -- it's one of the few DVC80 threads around that I can participate in! I shoulda bought a DVX100, if only so I could post more often in this forum!)

Patrick King · July 23rd, 2004, 12:10 PM

Barry,

Since the DVX100 can play back DVCAM tapes, I wonder if the DVC30 can play them also.

Anyone with a DVCAM (PD150/170 or PDX-10) and a DVC30 willing to try playing a DVCAM recorded tape back on your DVC30 to tell us?

Jesse Bekas · July 23rd, 2004, 09:52 PM

The DVX and the DVC30 don't have the same VTR, so the DVX's DVCAM playback ability is not indicative either way of the DVC30's abilities. That's not to say that the DVC won't play back DVCAM tapes, though. I'm just stating that the VTRs are different.

July 19th, 2004, 06:42 PM	#1
Karen Grayson New Boot Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 13	pd150 tape won't playback on dvc80.. hi all, Question: is there a reason a tape recorded on a pd150 [sp mode] now won't playback [so i can capture it] on my dvc80? I'm almost positive my assistant didn't shoot in dvcam mode. what happens when i do play it in the dvc80 is, i get just the blue vcr screen and no rolling timecode, but i can see that the tape is moving . What is strange is that i did playback the tape right after the wedding to check out the footage and it worked..hmm i'm baffled! also, i was ABLE TO PLAYBACK & CAPTURE from 2 of his other pd150 tapes. I'm baffled. Anyone have an idea what's up? thank you! karen

July 20th, 2004, 04:37 PM	#7
Karen Grayson New Boot Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 13	re: pd 150 tape won't plaback on dvc80 hi guys, i don't have the pd150 here. My assistant borrowed it from his school. He's a pretty smart guy and knows about the dvcam settings etc..and said he def. taped in sp mode. I'm afraid to run the cleaning tape on my dvc80 cause i've only used it on a handful of events. whats weird is that i played back one of the tapes [that now wont playback] the day after the wedding and it played back fine.. also, we were both using the same exact manuf. tapes..panny mq63's.. thanks karen

July 23rd, 2004, 12:10 PM	#14
Patrick King Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Enterprise, AL Posts: 857	Barry, Since the DVX100 can play back DVCAM tapes, I wonder if the DVC30 can play them also. Anyone with a DVCAM (PD150/170 or PDX-10) and a DVC30 willing to try playing a DVCAM recorded tape back on your DVC30 to tell us? __________________ Fear No Weevil!

July 20th, 2004, 12:51 PM	#2
John Britt Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 621	Not to ask a "dummy" question, but did you try cleaning the heads? The symptoms you describe are indictive of dirty heads, and the fact that you are trying to watch multiple tapes from another camera might also indicate a need to clean.

July 20th, 2004, 02:01 PM	#3
Frederic Segard Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Montreal, Canada Posts: 209	Sounds to me that it was recorded in DVCAM mode and not SP mode. As John said, just in case, use a cleaning tape. But I doubt its going to do anything if all you see is a blue screen. Either that, or the tape is blank!

July 20th, 2004, 02:44 PM	#4
John Britt Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 621	Very good point about DVCAM, Frederic, although I must add that when I have mixed brands of tape, I get a blue screen with no timecode, just as Karen described. The problem is always fixed by running a cleaning tape for 5 seconds.

July 20th, 2004, 03:52 PM	#5
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	DVCAM shouldn't be a problem. The DVX100 can play back DVCAM tapes just fine, and I would certainly expect the DVC80 to be able to do so as well (but maybe not?)

July 20th, 2004, 04:00 PM	#6
Patrick King Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Enterprise, AL Posts: 857	Barry, Can the DVX100 playback: DVCAM tapes recorded in the PD150 as DV? DVCAM tapes recorded in the PD150 as DVCAM? Sorry for having to ask what may be obvious to you. Patrick

July 20th, 2004, 05:04 PM	#8
John Britt Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 621	Run the cleaning tape. It's not good to do it excessively, but if you are experiencing a problem with symptoms indicative of gunked up heads, then it only makes sense to clean the heads. It doesn't matter if you've only used the DVC80 a little bit. 5 seconds of cleaning tape isn't going to damage the camera. Take it from another DVC80 user. You may be using the same brand of tape, but it's possible that the tapes picked up gunk from the PD150 (which has probably seen more action than the DVC80 and could possibly use a cleaning itself) It may not fix the problem -- then again it just might. Why pay to tow your stalled car to the mechanic when you can first make sure the gas tank isn't empty? ... if you know what I mean...

July 20th, 2004, 09:44 PM	#9
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	<<<-- Originally posted by Patrick King : Barry, Can the DVX100 playback: DVCAM tapes recorded in the PD150 as DV? DVCAM tapes recorded in the PD150 as DVCAM? Sorry for having to ask what may be obvious to you. Patrick -->>> The confusion comes about because DV and DVCAM are largely interchangeable. The tape is interchangeable, for example: you can put a mini-DV tape in a DVCAM deck, or a mini-DVCAM tape in a DV deck, and it'll work just fine. So the tape is not the issue. The issue is what mode gets recorded on the tape. If you record DVCAM on a tape and then try to play that tape back on, say, a Sony VX1000 (released pre-DVCAM), you're hosed... whether you recorded it on DVCAM tape or DV tape, the data on the tape is DVCAM, and that particular camera can't record it. But, with the DVX, that's all irrelevant. It can play back DV or DVCAM data, whether recorded on DV or DVCAM tape. It was quite a surprise to me when I first found it out, but it definitely works just fine -- I have tapes here that were dubbed onto DSR-30 DVCAM by a post house, and when I play 'em on my DV deck the "DVCAM" light comes on to signify that it's playing back DVCAM data, and they work just fine in the DVX100 as well. I didn't expect them to, I didn't think any non-Sony cameras played back DVCAM (all Sony cameras except the original VX1000 and VX700 can play DVCAM, but I didn't think any other manufacturer's cams could). But the DVX100 does, so I would guess that the DVC80 could as well.

July 21st, 2004, 06:29 PM	#10
Jesse Bekas Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Ridgefield Park, New Jersey, USA Posts: 572	If one out of three tapes you're trying to play back is not working it isn't a problem with the VTR, so don't clean the heads and risk wearing them down. Assume the tape either has nothing on it, or has some other problem. I think the VTR in the DVC, and DVX are the same. If one plays back DVCAM, they both should.

July 21st, 2004, 06:52 PM	#11
John Britt Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 621	Jesse As she said 4 posts above, there was one tape that played fine earlier, but won't play now. 5 seconds of cleaning tape isn't going to damage the heads. This is a really reactionary response that too many people seem to have. Using cleaning tape too often is bad. Using it when the situation seems to require it is OK. Sometimes you just have to clean the heads. What else are you going to do? Ship it back to Panasonic for head repairs -- only to be told that all it needed was a cleaning? Again, I'm not saying that cleaning is a definite fix. But the problems she describes are symptomatic of dirty heads, and I say that from experience. Why avoid the giant pink elephant in the corner? Cleaning the heads is a simple, straightforward, and easy first step. There is logical form to follow for problem solving, and doing the simplest, most obvious thing should always be the first step. Get that out of the way, and if it doesn't work, move to the next step up. (and no, I don't know why this topic has become the one thing I've posted most about recently...)

July 21st, 2004, 07:51 PM	#12
Jesse Bekas Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Ridgefield Park, New Jersey, USA Posts: 572	I knew she said the tape had played back, but I was assuming she meant in the PD150, because she said it was the day after the wedding. What I didn't consider is that the tape must than, in fact, have video on it. The only reason I reacted strongly to the the head cleaning is because I know a careless person that needed head replacements, because he didn't read the instructions on the package and would run the cleaner for 30 seconds like the older crappy VCR head cleaners, and did it regularly whether the cam needed it or not. I should have instead posted a reminder of how long to run the cleaner.

July 21st, 2004, 08:24 PM	#13
John Britt Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 621	Ehh, I'm just being ornery tonight. Actually, I went and watched some the ATHF Vol. 2 DVD and now I feel a lot better. You are right about being cautious with the cleaning tape, though. I have less than 100 hours on my DVC80, but I've probably run the cleaning tape through it 4 or 5 times -- only for 5 seconds each time -- and have seen no ill effects. The times I have run it have been usually because I found myself in a situation where I had no choice but to use (or view) a different brand of tape, or because I was going to a once-in-a-lifetime shoot and didn't want to come home with a blank tape. But I never run it more than 5 seconds, and I don't make it a regular habit. That is very good advice you gave, Jesse. (By the way, I think I figured out why I'm so immersed in this particular thread -- it's one of the few DVC80 threads around that I can participate in! I shoulda bought a DVX100, if only so I could post more often in this forum!)

July 23rd, 2004, 09:52 PM	#15
Jesse Bekas Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Ridgefield Park, New Jersey, USA Posts: 572	The DVX and the DVC30 don't have the same VTR, so the DVX's DVCAM playback ability is not indicative either way of the DVC30's abilities. That's not to say that the DVC won't play back DVCAM tapes, though. I'm just stating that the VTRs are different.