DVX-100A

Bryan Harley · May 19th, 2004, 01:26 AM

Is there any chance in the next few months that we'll see a price drop in the DVX100A?

It appears B&H has stopped selling the DVX100, and the DVX100A remains at $3500.

Ken Tanaka · May 19th, 2004, 01:41 AM

I certainly don't know but I wouldn't count on it. It's the hottest high-end consumer filmmaking camera on the market with no real direct competition. If HDV cameras begin appearing this year it might face a bit of competition but, even so, its 24P and image tweaking features will probably keep it strong in the marketplace for a while.

Barry Green · May 19th, 2004, 02:03 PM

The trend appears towards actually higher prices. The DVX, when first announced, carried an MSRP of $3495, but by the time it hit the market they'd raised that price to $3795. And the 100A seems to have gone up a bit since it was first announced.

ProMax is offering it at about $3370, which I think is the lowest price I've seen from an authorized reseller.

(What's with this price trend -- haven't we all been conditioned that electronics prices always go down? ;) I just noticed that the mini35 has gone up in price. Used to be about $8500 for a full setup, and now it's up to $10,000!)

Mike Morrell · May 21st, 2004, 08:24 AM

The rumor is that Canon's new XL2S will also be sporting 24p. Could this lead to a price break after its release later this summer? If I were panny, I'd be lowing prices now just a bit to get those 100a's into hands of those who would wait and buy a XL2.

Joe Carney · May 21st, 2004, 11:38 AM

>>(What's with this price trend -- haven't we all been conditioned that electronics prices always go down? ;) <<
Simple, the dollar is dropping in value against the Euro and the Yen, plus drastically higher fuel prices make shipping costs higher.

Barry Green · May 21st, 2004, 11:48 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Mike Morrell : The rumor is that Canon's new XL2S will also be sporting 24p. Could this lead to a price break after its release later this summer? -->>>

People have been waiting to buy an XL2 for over three years now.

If there ever is an XL2, I have gone on record as predicting that it'll be HDV, not DV. I don't believe there will ever be a DV-format XL2. It'll be HDV. And if that's the case, it almost certainly won't be released this summer. I expect Canon to continue to disappoint us, but if by some miracle they do actually make an announcement this year, I expect the announcement to be on the order of "we'll be making an XL2, and it'll be on store shelves September 2005".

Canon's been running a $500 rebate on the XL1 for, what, 9 months now? I think they're just trying to clear out old stock, and they won't make any XL2-related announcement until the XL1 backstock is eliminated. Once they have nothing else to lose (i.e., no more XL1's in stock that they'll be stuck with) then they'll make an announcement about a forthcoming XL2, to attempt to freeze out potential Panasonic buyers.

Ken Tanaka · May 21st, 2004, 12:17 PM

Bottom line for Bryan: Buy the camera that best suits your needs, aspirations and budget today. There will always be something new just over the horizon.

Mike Morrell · May 21st, 2004, 08:14 PM

Trust me on this one, when the XL2 comes out, it will NOT be HDV, definitely 24p DV. I'm not sure if it will be out this summer, maybe fall, but it will be out this year and it will not be HDV and it will have true progressive CCD's. Now I'm going on record, but I cannot reveal my source. But we will all just have to wait...Either way, I'm ready for a 100a (or two) if I can sell my 100.

Michael Summers · May 21st, 2004, 09:23 PM

ill buy your 100 :)

Mike Morrell · July 27th, 2004, 09:43 AM

Barry, not to say that "I told you so", but I did. I am seriously considering moving to the XL2. With true 16x9 recording and 24/30p recording, it definitely rivals the DVX100 at a higher price point. HDV is promising but until we see 3 CCD HDV cameras in 3 to 5k price range, they will continue to be out of my market segment. I'm guessing two more years for HDV.

"Trust me on this one, when the XL2 comes out, it will NOT be HDV, definitely 24p DV. I'm not sure if it will be out this summer, maybe fall, but it will be out this year and it will not be HDV and it will have true progressive CCD's. Now I'm going on record, but I cannot reveal my source. But we will all just have to wait...Either way, I'm ready for a 100a (or two) if I can sell my 100."

"If there ever is an XL2, I have gone on record as predicting that it'll be HDV, not DV. I don't believe there will ever be a DV-format XL2. It'll be HDV. And if that's the case, it almost certainly won't be released this summer. I expect Canon to continue to disappoint us, but if by some miracle they do actually make an announcement this year, I expect the announcement to be on the order of "we'll be making an XL2, and it'll be on store shelves September 2005"."

Barry Green · July 28th, 2004, 01:17 AM

Yeah, Canon kind of stunned me on that one. Never thought they'd do it, but they did. Very, very surprising.

Anybody have any good recipes for crow? :)

Mike Morrell · July 28th, 2004, 06:05 AM

All in fun, I knew I was right on this one because I had inside information from NAB. I'm usually wrong more than 50% of the time.

After reading some of the "rumors" about the Xl2, it may not be as cracked up as spec might have you think. I may be sticking with the DVX for some time.

BTW, I ordered the Anamorphic adapter pamphlet. I'm looking forward to learning how to properly use them.

Chris L. Gray · July 28th, 2004, 08:08 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Barry Green : The trend appears towards actually higher prices. The DVX, when first announced, carried an MSRP of $3495, but by the time it hit the market they'd raised that price to $3795. And the 100A seems to have gone up a bit since it was first announced.

ProMax is offering it at about $3370, which I think is the lowest price I've seen from an authorized reseller.
-->>>

I did a check of cnet and it seems like the resellers who are carrying the DVX100 are not offering them for much less than the newer DVX100A.

As of this writing, the 100 is only $100 or so cheaper than the 100A for me:

http://cnet.search.com/search?chkpt=astg.cnet.fd.search.cnet&q=AG-DVX100

Barry Green · July 28th, 2004, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike Morrell : After reading some of the "rumors" about the Xl2, it may not be as cracked up as spec might have you think. I may be sticking with the DVX for some time.

Yeah, that's what surprised me. When I read the announcement I thought -- there's nothing new here. This is totally "catch-up"... every feature they have listed is already on the DVX. The only thing "new" is that they're using a megapixel CCD to cram more pixels into the same 16:9 surface area that the DVX100A uses in "squeeze mode"... an interesting approach that may or may not provide better video quality.

I remain quite interested in the camera, as there's no denying the reach of the 20x lens is quite attractive, and it may be (emphasis on "may") the ultimate mini35 camera. Got to get it to do some testing.

But I am very surprised (blown away, in fact) that it's not HDV. I'm stunned Canon would commit to HDV, then release another SD camera, and one that doesn't break any new ground. But, as someone else pointed out, Canon doesn't innovate, they let everyone else play their cards and then Canon likes to be the last to the table once they know what everyone else is doing. I guess in that context it makes sense.

Quote:

BTW, I ordered the Anamorphic adapter pamphlet. I'm looking forward to learning how to properly use them.

Great! Hope it helps! :)

Mike Morrell · July 28th, 2004, 10:42 AM

On the still photo D-SLR side, Canon does innovate and is way far ahead of Nikon and way ahead of anyone else.

From the XL2 spec, Canon is giving you more vertical pixels than anyone else on DV. Your widescreen DV pixel aspect ratio remains .9, unlike when we use the anamorphic lens on the DVX and you still get 720 vertical pixels and a 1.2 ratio. This was the the innovative part that I was looking for from the DVX-100a that did not come. That alone would buy me a couple of more years with the DVX.

But a closer examination of Cannon's CCD is that it may not really be any bigger and will the extra pixels really count? It is getting some bad talk from some people who have either tried it briefly at trade shows or have tried to find out more specifications and have not been able to. I'm waiting to see lab tests from impartial reviewers before I buy any more DVX's or go to the XL2. My would be to get two more cameras for 4 cam shoots. If it is a widescreen, I'd use the Xl2's as the main cameras and the DVX's with anamorphic adapters as stationary cams. For 4x3 shoots, I'd reverse the logic. But if the XL2 turns out to be a dud, I am planning on two new DVX100a's. I can get by for a few months on what I have until we all know more.

I think that it is "probable" that HDV will be the next format, but I am not certain of this. Sony and others have $20,000+ HDV cameras with 3 CCD's. IF the format takes, 3CCD cameras will trickle down to the prosumer price range, but how long before we see 3 chip HDV in the 3-5k range is anyones guess. I think that the manufacturers all want to make the price level for the next generation of prosumer cameras more expensive than the last. If this is the case, we may be shooting in DV25 for some time.

May 19th, 2004, 01:26 AM	#1
Bryan Harley Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Fresno, CA Posts: 99	DVX-100A - Price Drop? Is there any chance in the next few months that we'll see a price drop in the DVX100A? It appears B&H has stopped selling the DVX100, and the DVX100A remains at $3500. __________________ "Who's scruffy lookin'?" http://www.amfproductions.com

May 19th, 2004, 01:41 AM	#2
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	I certainly don't know but I wouldn't count on it. It's the hottest high-end consumer filmmaking camera on the market with no real direct competition. If HDV cameras begin appearing this year it might face a bit of competition but, even so, its 24P and image tweaking features will probably keep it strong in the marketplace for a while. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

May 21st, 2004, 12:17 PM	#7
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Bottom line for Bryan: Buy the camera that best suits your needs, aspirations and budget today. There will always be something new just over the horizon. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

May 21st, 2004, 09:23 PM	#9
Michael Summers Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Chicago, Illinois Posts: 65	ill buy your 100 :) __________________ www.astrosecretfilms.com real independent

May 19th, 2004, 02:03 PM	#3
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	The trend appears towards actually higher prices. The DVX, when first announced, carried an MSRP of $3495, but by the time it hit the market they'd raised that price to $3795. And the 100A seems to have gone up a bit since it was first announced. ProMax is offering it at about $3370, which I think is the lowest price I've seen from an authorized reseller. (What's with this price trend -- haven't we all been conditioned that electronics prices always go down? ;) I just noticed that the mini35 has gone up in price. Used to be about $8500 for a full setup, and now it's up to $10,000!)

May 21st, 2004, 08:24 AM	#4
Mike Morrell Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Norcross GA Posts: 119	The rumor is that Canon's new XL2S will also be sporting 24p. Could this lead to a price break after its release later this summer? If I were panny, I'd be lowing prices now just a bit to get those 100a's into hands of those who would wait and buy a XL2.

May 21st, 2004, 11:38 AM	#5
Joe Carney Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Centreville Va Posts: 1,828	>>(What's with this price trend -- haven't we all been conditioned that electronics prices always go down? ;) << Simple, the dollar is dropping in value against the Euro and the Yen, plus drastically higher fuel prices make shipping costs higher.

May 21st, 2004, 11:48 AM	#6
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	<<<-- Originally posted by Mike Morrell : The rumor is that Canon's new XL2S will also be sporting 24p. Could this lead to a price break after its release later this summer? -->>> People have been waiting to buy an XL2 for over three years now. If there ever is an XL2, I have gone on record as predicting that it'll be HDV, not DV. I don't believe there will ever be a DV-format XL2. It'll be HDV. And if that's the case, it almost certainly won't be released this summer. I expect Canon to continue to disappoint us, but if by some miracle they do actually make an announcement this year, I expect the announcement to be on the order of "we'll be making an XL2, and it'll be on store shelves September 2005". Canon's been running a $500 rebate on the XL1 for, what, 9 months now? I think they're just trying to clear out old stock, and they won't make any XL2-related announcement until the XL1 backstock is eliminated. Once they have nothing else to lose (i.e., no more XL1's in stock that they'll be stuck with) then they'll make an announcement about a forthcoming XL2, to attempt to freeze out potential Panasonic buyers.

May 21st, 2004, 08:14 PM	#8
Mike Morrell Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Norcross GA Posts: 119	Trust me on this one, when the XL2 comes out, it will NOT be HDV, definitely 24p DV. I'm not sure if it will be out this summer, maybe fall, but it will be out this year and it will not be HDV and it will have true progressive CCD's. Now I'm going on record, but I cannot reveal my source. But we will all just have to wait...Either way, I'm ready for a 100a (or two) if I can sell my 100.

July 27th, 2004, 09:43 AM	#10
Mike Morrell Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Norcross GA Posts: 119	Barry, not to say that "I told you so", but I did. I am seriously considering moving to the XL2. With true 16x9 recording and 24/30p recording, it definitely rivals the DVX100 at a higher price point. HDV is promising but until we see 3 CCD HDV cameras in 3 to 5k price range, they will continue to be out of my market segment. I'm guessing two more years for HDV. "Trust me on this one, when the XL2 comes out, it will NOT be HDV, definitely 24p DV. I'm not sure if it will be out this summer, maybe fall, but it will be out this year and it will not be HDV and it will have true progressive CCD's. Now I'm going on record, but I cannot reveal my source. But we will all just have to wait...Either way, I'm ready for a 100a (or two) if I can sell my 100." "If there ever is an XL2, I have gone on record as predicting that it'll be HDV, not DV. I don't believe there will ever be a DV-format XL2. It'll be HDV. And if that's the case, it almost certainly won't be released this summer. I expect Canon to continue to disappoint us, but if by some miracle they do actually make an announcement this year, I expect the announcement to be on the order of "we'll be making an XL2, and it'll be on store shelves September 2005"."

July 28th, 2004, 01:17 AM	#11
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	Yeah, Canon kind of stunned me on that one. Never thought they'd do it, but they did. Very, very surprising. Anybody have any good recipes for crow? :)

July 28th, 2004, 06:05 AM	#12
Mike Morrell Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Norcross GA Posts: 119	All in fun, I knew I was right on this one because I had inside information from NAB. I'm usually wrong more than 50% of the time. After reading some of the "rumors" about the Xl2, it may not be as cracked up as spec might have you think. I may be sticking with the DVX for some time. BTW, I ordered the Anamorphic adapter pamphlet. I'm looking forward to learning how to properly use them.

July 28th, 2004, 08:08 AM	#13
Chris L. Gray Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: chicago Posts: 73	<<<-- Originally posted by Barry Green : The trend appears towards actually higher prices. The DVX, when first announced, carried an MSRP of $3495, but by the time it hit the market they'd raised that price to $3795. And the 100A seems to have gone up a bit since it was first announced. ProMax is offering it at about $3370, which I think is the lowest price I've seen from an authorized reseller. -->>> I did a check of cnet and it seems like the resellers who are carrying the DVX100 are not offering them for much less than the newer DVX100A. As of this writing, the 100 is only $100 or so cheaper than the 100A for me: http://cnet.search.com/search?chkpt=astg.cnet.fd.search.cnet&q=AG-DVX100

July 28th, 2004, 10:42 AM	#15
Mike Morrell Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Norcross GA Posts: 119	On the still photo D-SLR side, Canon does innovate and is way far ahead of Nikon and way ahead of anyone else. From the XL2 spec, Canon is giving you more vertical pixels than anyone else on DV. Your widescreen DV pixel aspect ratio remains .9, unlike when we use the anamorphic lens on the DVX and you still get 720 vertical pixels and a 1.2 ratio. This was the the innovative part that I was looking for from the DVX-100a that did not come. That alone would buy me a couple of more years with the DVX. But a closer examination of Cannon's CCD is that it may not really be any bigger and will the extra pixels really count? It is getting some bad talk from some people who have either tried it briefly at trade shows or have tried to find out more specifications and have not been able to. I'm waiting to see lab tests from impartial reviewers before I buy any more DVX's or go to the XL2. My would be to get two more cameras for 4 cam shoots. If it is a widescreen, I'd use the Xl2's as the main cameras and the DVX's with anamorphic adapters as stationary cams. For 4x3 shoots, I'd reverse the logic. But if the XL2 turns out to be a dud, I am planning on two new DVX100a's. I can get by for a few months on what I have until we all know more. I think that it is "probable" that HDV will be the next format, but I am not certain of this. Sony and others have $20,000+ HDV cameras with 3 CCD's. IF the format takes, 3CCD cameras will trickle down to the prosumer price range, but how long before we see 3 chip HDV in the 3-5k range is anyones guess. I think that the manufacturers all want to make the price level for the next generation of prosumer cameras more expensive than the last. If this is the case, we may be shooting in DV25 for some time.