dvx PAL and vegas at DVinfo.net

Voytek Stitko · April 8th, 2004, 02:38 PM

HI,
I got 2 questions...

Are there any problems with editing PAL footage (from dvx100AE) on Vegas?

And it is possible to get good quality transfer from PAL to NTSC (on a dv tape)? I heard someting about Atlantis software but nothing detailed.

Thanks,
Voytek

Patrick Bower · April 8th, 2004, 02:56 PM

Vegas does PAL. It's certainly fine for my PAL DVX100
Patrick

Voytek Stitko · April 8th, 2004, 03:02 PM

thanks,

voytek

Peter Sieben · April 11th, 2004, 05:36 AM

I had to transfer PAL DVX100 footage (25P) to NTSC and used Vegas for it. I asked almost everyone I could find (Sony, several forums) but a good conversion from 25P to 24P with Vegas is a hell. So I did make the video interlaced while creating a MPEG2 NTSC file from the timeline. The NTSC dvd was played on an American film festival and won the 1st price in a category. I got nice comments about the filmlook (thanks to the original 25P footage), despite the transfer to 60i NTSC video.

You can try Atlantis, but the results I got with the demo version were not good enough for me, but I must admit I played with it for just an hour.

Peter Sieben

Peter Jefferson · April 11th, 2004, 08:25 AM

Vegas is fine with the PAL DVX.. its all I use...

I also use an MX500 in Frame mode and in good light the difference is barely noticable.. one thing youll note is that shutter speeds vary on the Pal dvx.. (theyre a little strange) you cant get a precise slower 1/50 shutter (in interlace) when the lighting is low like u can with the MX for example so syncing the 2 when it comes to shutter is a necessity.. (ie, setting the monitor sync to the lowest shutter possible.. i think its somethin like 1/52.1

in progressive, you can however have a shutter of 1/25 or a precise 1/50

but thats not your question...

as for converting, you can import any format into Vegas.. from here you can go into the project settings and set it up for Progressive 25p or even 24p (and you can also assign a drop down config.. i think... )

go to file, properties, select the video tab... its as simple as that..
When rendering.. you set up the same config...

then to sync the audio, u can requantize or even shift it afew frames to make it sync (there are numerous threads on doing this in the vegas forum.)

okies once youve set your project settings, go to view, and select VIDEO BUS TRACK.

now in here you will see a rubber band envelope tool.. you can adjsut this up to 8 levels..
if your only dropping one frame, set it to level 2.. and ON THE VIDEO FILE make sure you select FORCE RESAMPLE.
(right click, scroll down to switches, select force resample)

okies, one last thing.. if your filming with interlaced footage and you want to convert.. a neat little trick is to assign a track effect..
in this effect, you can run a sharpness filter... as progressive footage will be a little lower in resolution once both fields are blended. Dont worry about this filter if your shooting native 25p off the cam..

Peter Sieben · April 11th, 2004, 09:03 AM

Hi Peter,

Are you able to share me detailed info about the 25P PAL to 24P NTSC conversion via Vegas? I've done everything I could think of as I have written, but it gave motion problems or "shadow" like artifacts.

Regards,

Peter Sieben

Peter Jefferson · April 11th, 2004, 11:38 AM

these shadows are the footage carrying their dropped frames..

you SHOULDNT see this with the final render.

One thing to note, is that if your runnign a slow shutter in Progressive, you WILL get blurring.. and droppign the frame rate even more will accentuate that blur (hence the sharpness tip)

thers nothing u can do with footage on a slow shutter... and theres nothign really wrong with it... but you may not get the results you need if this is the case...

25p DOESNT have the audio sync problems known withteh dvx100 (series 1) and vegas will use a tight dropdown config so you wont have audio issues..

try render a clip and see how it looks.. ;)

can i ask.. do u really need 24p?? i mean its fine for film transfers but for dvd, if ur creating your own dvds 25fps should suffice without the need to reprocess...

Peter Sieben · April 11th, 2004, 11:46 AM

The shadows mentioned were visible in the final renderings (NTSC MPEG2).

I'm not sure which shutter speed I used. It was on the automatic mode on the DVX100. The iris was controlled manually.

I have good results with the 25P footage in the PAL progressive timeline of Vegas. Never any hassle, as you know. I tried to make a 24P NTSC output to make use of the advanced pulldown methodes of Vegas to create an NTSC MPEG2 file. Checking an interlaced 60i MPEG2 NTSC file via my PAL dvd-player that can playback NTSC dvd's on my PAL tv, it was like the original PAL 25P footage got the video-look again due to the conversion. That's why I tried the 24P NTSC route without success. At the filmfestival they played my dvd on a dedicated NTSC dvd-player with a big beamer and the video-look wasn't as obvious as it was at home.

Cheers,
Peter

Peter Jefferson · April 12th, 2004, 09:11 AM

the video look all comes from in-cam and filming style.. frame rate (ie 1fps) wont really make THAT much of a difference..

these shadows ur refering to... i am yet the see this.. is it safe to i assume your talking bout motion blur???

if so u can disable this within vegas.. motion blur may be overworked in your case as ur chipping frames (technically your creating new frames while culling others with the dropdown) so it could be that the motion blur is compensating the "loss" of frame...

from here i wouldnt know, but i would suggest you check out some film style tutes dotted all over this forum :)

April 8th, 2004, 02:38 PM	#1
Voytek Stitko Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: New York, NY Posts: 33	dvx PAL and vegas HI, I got 2 questions... Are there any problems with editing PAL footage (from dvx100AE) on Vegas? And it is possible to get good quality transfer from PAL to NTSC (on a dv tape)? I heard someting about Atlantis software but nothing detailed. Thanks, Voytek __________________ voytek

April 8th, 2004, 03:02 PM	#3
Voytek Stitko Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: New York, NY Posts: 33	ok thanks, voytek __________________ voytek

April 11th, 2004, 05:36 AM	#4
Peter Sieben Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 345	I had to transfer PAL DVX100 footage (25P) to NTSC and used Vegas for it. I asked almost everyone I could find (Sony, several forums) but a good conversion from 25P to 24P with Vegas is a hell. So I did make the video interlaced while creating a MPEG2 NTSC file from the timeline. The NTSC dvd was played on an American film festival and won the 1st price in a category. I got nice comments about the filmlook (thanks to the original 25P footage), despite the transfer to 60i NTSC video. You can try Atlantis, but the results I got with the demo version were not good enough for me, but I must admit I played with it for just an hour. Peter Sieben __________________ Peter / Orphic Film www.orphicfilm.nl and www.myspace.com/orphicfilm

April 11th, 2004, 09:03 AM	#6
Peter Sieben Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 345	Hi Peter, Are you able to share me detailed info about the 25P PAL to 24P NTSC conversion via Vegas? I've done everything I could think of as I have written, but it gave motion problems or "shadow" like artifacts. Regards, Peter Sieben __________________ Peter / Orphic Film www.orphicfilm.nl and www.myspace.com/orphicfilm

April 11th, 2004, 11:46 AM	#8
Peter Sieben Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 345	The shadows mentioned were visible in the final renderings (NTSC MPEG2). I'm not sure which shutter speed I used. It was on the automatic mode on the DVX100. The iris was controlled manually. I have good results with the 25P footage in the PAL progressive timeline of Vegas. Never any hassle, as you know. I tried to make a 24P NTSC output to make use of the advanced pulldown methodes of Vegas to create an NTSC MPEG2 file. Checking an interlaced 60i MPEG2 NTSC file via my PAL dvd-player that can playback NTSC dvd's on my PAL tv, it was like the original PAL 25P footage got the video-look again due to the conversion. That's why I tried the 24P NTSC route without success. At the filmfestival they played my dvd on a dedicated NTSC dvd-player with a big beamer and the video-look wasn't as obvious as it was at home. Cheers, Peter __________________ Peter / Orphic Film www.orphicfilm.nl and www.myspace.com/orphicfilm

April 8th, 2004, 02:56 PM	#2
Patrick Bower Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: London, England Posts: 126	Vegas does PAL. It's certainly fine for my PAL DVX100 Patrick

April 11th, 2004, 08:25 AM	#5
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	Vegas is fine with the PAL DVX.. its all I use... I also use an MX500 in Frame mode and in good light the difference is barely noticable.. one thing youll note is that shutter speeds vary on the Pal dvx.. (theyre a little strange) you cant get a precise slower 1/50 shutter (in interlace) when the lighting is low like u can with the MX for example so syncing the 2 when it comes to shutter is a necessity.. (ie, setting the monitor sync to the lowest shutter possible.. i think its somethin like 1/52.1 in progressive, you can however have a shutter of 1/25 or a precise 1/50 but thats not your question... as for converting, you can import any format into Vegas.. from here you can go into the project settings and set it up for Progressive 25p or even 24p (and you can also assign a drop down config.. i think... ) go to file, properties, select the video tab... its as simple as that.. When rendering.. you set up the same config... then to sync the audio, u can requantize or even shift it afew frames to make it sync (there are numerous threads on doing this in the vegas forum.) okies once youve set your project settings, go to view, and select VIDEO BUS TRACK. now in here you will see a rubber band envelope tool.. you can adjsut this up to 8 levels.. if your only dropping one frame, set it to level 2.. and ON THE VIDEO FILE make sure you select FORCE RESAMPLE. (right click, scroll down to switches, select force resample) okies, one last thing.. if your filming with interlaced footage and you want to convert.. a neat little trick is to assign a track effect.. in this effect, you can run a sharpness filter... as progressive footage will be a little lower in resolution once both fields are blended. Dont worry about this filter if your shooting native 25p off the cam..

April 11th, 2004, 11:38 AM	#7
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	these shadows are the footage carrying their dropped frames.. you SHOULDNT see this with the final render. One thing to note, is that if your runnign a slow shutter in Progressive, you WILL get blurring.. and droppign the frame rate even more will accentuate that blur (hence the sharpness tip) thers nothing u can do with footage on a slow shutter... and theres nothign really wrong with it... but you may not get the results you need if this is the case... 25p DOESNT have the audio sync problems known withteh dvx100 (series 1) and vegas will use a tight dropdown config so you wont have audio issues.. try render a clip and see how it looks.. ;) can i ask.. do u really need 24p?? i mean its fine for film transfers but for dvd, if ur creating your own dvds 25fps should suffice without the need to reprocess...

April 12th, 2004, 09:11 AM	#9
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	the video look all comes from in-cam and filming style.. frame rate (ie 1fps) wont really make THAT much of a difference.. these shadows ur refering to... i am yet the see this.. is it safe to i assume your talking bout motion blur??? if so u can disable this within vegas.. motion blur may be overworked in your case as ur chipping frames (technically your creating new frames while culling others with the dropdown) so it could be that the motion blur is compensating the "loss" of frame... from here i wouldnt know, but i would suggest you check out some film style tutes dotted all over this forum :)