Why NOT get a PAL dvx100a? at DVinfo.net

Michael Struthers · January 20th, 2004, 01:41 PM

You get superior resolution - just 150 lines short of HD (570 vs 720)

you get no pulldowns in post - just edit in FCP or whatever..

You can just buy a used PAL monitor to view it on.

Superior film out qualities...

I'm in the USA and looking to upgrade to this unit; (anyone want to buy my pristine gs100k?) and I guess I have yet to figure out what the major drawbacks are; surely they can't be worth missing SUPERIOR PICTURE QUALITY...can they?

Mikey

www.buzzdigital.com

Stephen van Vuuren · January 20th, 2004, 01:58 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Michael Struthers : You get superior resolution - just 150 lines short of HD (570 vs 720)

you get no pulldowns in post - just edit in FCP or whatever..

You can just buy a used PAL monitor to view it on.

Superior film out qualities..
-->>>

Because of the 24p in the NTSC, PAL has less advantages than it did on previous cameras. This is because when creating 24fps film or progressive DVDs you will either have slight motion artifacts and/or audio speed adjustments plus buying the extra equipment and/or software to support PAL workflow (don't forget field monitors etc.).

Secondly, if you have to deliver a 29.97 product, 25p PAL to 29.97 NTSC is not pretty, whereas 24p NTSC to 29.97 NTSC is quite nice.

Finally, the extra resolution is not a dramatic in the footage I've seen as the 24p thin mode on NTSC captures a pretty sharp image to start with unlike regular 29.97 interlaced cameras.

You final decision should result on A/B tests to filmout with a lab that can produce great results with both PAL and NTSC - note many labs are optimized for one or the other.

My personal approach was that if I were renting or buying a cam for a specific project I knew was being blown up to film, I would test and seriously consider a PAL DVX100a.

If I needed a camera for a variety of film, DVD and video projects, I would buy a NTSC DVX100a and not worry as filmout on NTSC DVX100a will equal or beat other PAL DV cameras.

Michael Struthers · January 20th, 2004, 06:08 PM

I don't know, 20% resolution is no laughing matter at the bottom of the resolution scale...

If you edit in FCP, can't you just save out to quicktime file to show things over the web...or save to a tape if you want to project something....how would the tape recognize PAL? There's no PAL tapes, they are all the same...and couldn't they make dvd's from the film master?

You would never touch the video, just the audio to make the 4% correction...and I'll bet tons of labs handle PAL...

I did rent a dvx100 just to play and it looked nice, but I couldn't help wishing for a touch more rez...

Like to here from someone who has a US Pal camera....

mikey

www.buzzdigital.com

Adrian Douglas · January 20th, 2004, 10:47 PM

Michael, I have a PAL XL1 here in Japan and it is a total pain in the arse. I have a multi-standard monitor and it's still a pain in the arse. Conversion is the big problem, sure you can get conversion software but you basically lose anythinig you gained in the PAL advantage over NTSC. I wouldn't say anything converted using software is broadcastable. To have it done professionally is quite expensive and for DV isn't worth it.

The bottom line is, as we have all said many times, if you live in an NTSC country shoot NTSC, the differences in theory may be produce better quality but in practise the two formats are the same.

Glenn Gipson · January 21st, 2004, 11:59 AM

If you want more resolution from your DVX100, just use S-Spline to convert 720x480 to 1280x720.

Vlad Manning · January 23rd, 2004, 12:17 AM

Good question, because the higher resolution of the PAL model should make a noticeably better picture at large magnification. But if you're not going to do a film transfer, then you've only created a more difficult workflow, with a possibly worse end result than the NTSC version, depending on how much is spent in the conversion from PAL.

If going to film, the bigest factor will be the lab you choose. They'll tell you which format they can make look the best.

January 20th, 2004, 01:41 PM	#1
Michael Struthers Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: SF, Ca Posts: 421	Why NOT get a PAL dvx100a? You get superior resolution - just 150 lines short of HD (570 vs 720) you get no pulldowns in post - just edit in FCP or whatever.. You can just buy a used PAL monitor to view it on. Superior film out qualities... I'm in the USA and looking to upgrade to this unit; (anyone want to buy my pristine gs100k?) and I guess I have yet to figure out what the major drawbacks are; surely they can't be worth missing SUPERIOR PICTURE QUALITY...can they? Mikey www.buzzdigital.com

January 20th, 2004, 01:58 PM	#2
Stephen van Vuuren Space Hipster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,508	Re: Why NOT get a PAL dvx100a? <<<-- Originally posted by Michael Struthers : You get superior resolution - just 150 lines short of HD (570 vs 720) you get no pulldowns in post - just edit in FCP or whatever.. You can just buy a used PAL monitor to view it on. Superior film out qualities.. -->>> Because of the 24p in the NTSC, PAL has less advantages than it did on previous cameras. This is because when creating 24fps film or progressive DVDs you will either have slight motion artifacts and/or audio speed adjustments plus buying the extra equipment and/or software to support PAL workflow (don't forget field monitors etc.). Secondly, if you have to deliver a 29.97 product, 25p PAL to 29.97 NTSC is not pretty, whereas 24p NTSC to 29.97 NTSC is quite nice. Finally, the extra resolution is not a dramatic in the footage I've seen as the 24p thin mode on NTSC captures a pretty sharp image to start with unlike regular 29.97 interlaced cameras. You final decision should result on A/B tests to filmout with a lab that can produce great results with both PAL and NTSC - note many labs are optimized for one or the other. My personal approach was that if I were renting or buying a cam for a specific project I knew was being blown up to film, I would test and seriously consider a PAL DVX100a. If I needed a camera for a variety of film, DVD and video projects, I would buy a NTSC DVX100a and not worry as filmout on NTSC DVX100a will equal or beat other PAL DV cameras. __________________ stephen v2 www.insaturnsrings.com

January 20th, 2004, 06:08 PM	#3
Michael Struthers Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: SF, Ca Posts: 421	So as I see it I don't know, 20% resolution is no laughing matter at the bottom of the resolution scale... If you edit in FCP, can't you just save out to quicktime file to show things over the web...or save to a tape if you want to project something....how would the tape recognize PAL? There's no PAL tapes, they are all the same...and couldn't they make dvd's from the film master? You would never touch the video, just the audio to make the 4% correction...and I'll bet tons of labs handle PAL... I did rent a dvx100 just to play and it looked nice, but I couldn't help wishing for a touch more rez... Like to here from someone who has a US Pal camera.... mikey www.buzzdigital.com

January 20th, 2004, 10:47 PM	#4
Adrian Douglas Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Chigasaki, Japan. Posts: 1,660	Michael, I have a PAL XL1 here in Japan and it is a total pain in the arse. I have a multi-standard monitor and it's still a pain in the arse. Conversion is the big problem, sure you can get conversion software but you basically lose anythinig you gained in the PAL advantage over NTSC. I wouldn't say anything converted using software is broadcastable. To have it done professionally is quite expensive and for DV isn't worth it. The bottom line is, as we have all said many times, if you live in an NTSC country shoot NTSC, the differences in theory may be produce better quality but in practise the two formats are the same. __________________ Adrian DVInfo.net Search for quick answers Where to buy? From the best in the business...DVInfo.net sponsors

January 23rd, 2004, 12:17 AM	#6
Vlad Manning New Boot Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: US Posts: 19	It's in the lab Good question, because the higher resolution of the PAL model should make a noticeably better picture at large magnification. But if you're not going to do a film transfer, then you've only created a more difficult workflow, with a possibly worse end result than the NTSC version, depending on how much is spent in the conversion from PAL. If going to film, the bigest factor will be the lab you choose. They'll tell you which format they can make look the best.

January 21st, 2004, 11:59 AM	#5
Glenn Gipson Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Plainfield, New Jersey Posts: 927	If you want more resolution from your DVX100, just use S-Spline to convert 720x480 to 1280x720.