Shooting Black/White for the DVX100 at DVinfo.net

Mark Nauth · January 8th, 2004, 01:05 AM

I am looking to shoot a short with the DVX100 with the possibility of blowing it up to 35mm. DV does not look EXACTLY like a 35 film does on a big screen due to color saturation and resolution and a variety of other factors. Because of this, I am looking to do it in black and white. This overall compromise will allow it to look like film without question... Right? At least 16mm film look?

It has been said that one should shoot in color and then throw on some filters in post. This does not make sense to me. It's like saying I want to make Schindler's List, but I'm gonna shoot in color and then throw on some filters to make it look like something it's not. Hence the need to shoot in black/white.... The need to light scenes and sets or set up shots for black/white go without saying ... right?

Has anyone seen something shot with the DVX in black/white and then blown it up?... Or at least seen it on a large DLP, LCD, or Plasma HDTV widescreen? If someone could give me feedback on this, it would be much appreciated!

Thanks!

Ken Tanaka · January 8th, 2004, 02:22 AM

Mark,
No, I've not seen b&w footage from the DVX100 blown-up, so take my remarks for whatever they may be worth to you.

In general, the recommendation for producing a b&w production on video tends to be to shoot it in color and then use color corrrection tools in post, not just applying filters, to desaturate, manage contrast, etc. Essentially the same basic processes that would be followed for a color production.

Yes, you could desaturate your image in the camera while shooting but I would be more inclined to monitor it in black and white and record in color. Something tells me that this would leave you with more options in post.

I would also think that the considerations for large projection of b&w footage from the DVX100 would be identical to those for color footage. But, again, I have not attempted to perform this maneuver.

Mark Nauth · January 8th, 2004, 10:40 PM

Ken,

Thank you for this information! I will most likely go the route of doing it in post-production!

Sharon Fraats · January 8th, 2004, 11:56 PM

If you are saying that you are going to make a B&W film you are really making a Grayscale Film, as that is what it truly is you will have a 256 field of grayscale. However if you just turn off the cameras color and shoot from their perspective you will lose control of the outcome as an NLE has a better control of color or no color.

So when working with 35mm film it is truly grayscale and when one goes for this look you will find that you give control of the camera to the DP whereas when you film in 35mm color you have more control in post as many of the films that you see that are B&W they are were not filmed in B&W as the were filmed in color then converted in post.

Ken Tanaka · January 9th, 2004, 12:11 AM

Sharon,
I'm not sure of this, but I think you've just won the DVInfo.net award for longest sentence in a post, at least year-to date)! <g>

Just teasing you. There's good perspective in that sentence!

Mark Nauth · January 9th, 2004, 12:53 AM

Sharon,

Are you saying that when a movie is viewed in black/white, it was originally shot in color and then run through post-production to get black/white? If that's what your saying... then I am almost certain that is not accurate. Some movies will use flashback moments in black/white. These always cheesy moments that can be mostly found on reruns of old TV shows nowdays, have been drained of their color in post. You can tell because the image looks weak, unlike a movie that is shot in true black/white.

I must concurr with Ken. Your sentences were so long that I didn't really understand what you were saying. Thank you for your feedback, but can you please clarify?!

Sharon Fraats · January 9th, 2004, 01:41 AM

I am not saying all B&Ws are done in color Schindler's List was filmed in B&W for a reason however on most films they are shot in color and then converted. What I am saying is that most are color shoots and are done in post.

Another point of film is look at "Cast Away" the night shots were done during the day as they could film it better and capturing the scenes with light enhanced the picture. Yet, the used filters and also in post to make it look like it was shot at night.

Sorry I go on at times.

Mark Nauth · January 10th, 2004, 08:41 PM

Film shot in color and then converted to b/w in post looks cheap! They do this constantly in TV in flashback related stuff or if they're trying to have a unique episode thats set in an older period. When they do this it looks horrible. The fact is, I don't think video captures black/white well at all! Doesn't look natural in comparison to true black/white film.

January 8th, 2004, 01:05 AM	#1
Mark Nauth New Boot Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 15	Shooting Black/White for the DVX100 I am looking to shoot a short with the DVX100 with the possibility of blowing it up to 35mm. DV does not look EXACTLY like a 35 film does on a big screen due to color saturation and resolution and a variety of other factors. Because of this, I am looking to do it in black and white. This overall compromise will allow it to look like film without question... Right? At least 16mm film look? It has been said that one should shoot in color and then throw on some filters in post. This does not make sense to me. It's like saying I want to make Schindler's List, but I'm gonna shoot in color and then throw on some filters to make it look like something it's not. Hence the need to shoot in black/white.... The need to light scenes and sets or set up shots for black/white go without saying ... right? Has anyone seen something shot with the DVX in black/white and then blown it up?... Or at least seen it on a large DLP, LCD, or Plasma HDTV widescreen? If someone could give me feedback on this, it would be much appreciated! Thanks!

January 8th, 2004, 02:22 AM	#2
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Mark, No, I've not seen b&w footage from the DVX100 blown-up, so take my remarks for whatever they may be worth to you. In general, the recommendation for producing a b&w production on video tends to be to shoot it in color and then use color corrrection tools in post, not just applying filters, to desaturate, manage contrast, etc. Essentially the same basic processes that would be followed for a color production. Yes, you could desaturate your image in the camera while shooting but I would be more inclined to monitor it in black and white and record in color. Something tells me that this would leave you with more options in post. I would also think that the considerations for large projection of b&w footage from the DVX100 would be identical to those for color footage. But, again, I have not attempted to perform this maneuver. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

January 9th, 2004, 12:11 AM	#5
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Sharon, I'm not sure of this, but I think you've just won the DVInfo.net award for longest sentence in a post, at least year-to date)! <g> Just teasing you. There's good perspective in that sentence! __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

January 8th, 2004, 10:40 PM	#3
Mark Nauth New Boot Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 15	Ken, Thank you for this information! I will most likely go the route of doing it in post-production!

January 8th, 2004, 11:56 PM	#4
Sharon Fraats Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: chicago, ill Posts: 190	If you are saying that you are going to make a B&W film you are really making a Grayscale Film, as that is what it truly is you will have a 256 field of grayscale. However if you just turn off the cameras color and shoot from their perspective you will lose control of the outcome as an NLE has a better control of color or no color. So when working with 35mm film it is truly grayscale and when one goes for this look you will find that you give control of the camera to the DP whereas when you film in 35mm color you have more control in post as many of the films that you see that are B&W they are were not filmed in B&W as the were filmed in color then converted in post.

January 9th, 2004, 12:53 AM	#6
Mark Nauth New Boot Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 15	Sharon, Are you saying that when a movie is viewed in black/white, it was originally shot in color and then run through post-production to get black/white? If that's what your saying... then I am almost certain that is not accurate. Some movies will use flashback moments in black/white. These always cheesy moments that can be mostly found on reruns of old TV shows nowdays, have been drained of their color in post. You can tell because the image looks weak, unlike a movie that is shot in true black/white. I must concurr with Ken. Your sentences were so long that I didn't really understand what you were saying. Thank you for your feedback, but can you please clarify?!

January 9th, 2004, 01:41 AM	#7
Sharon Fraats Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: chicago, ill Posts: 190	I am not saying all B&Ws are done in color Schindler's List was filmed in B&W for a reason however on most films they are shot in color and then converted. What I am saying is that most are color shoots and are done in post. Another point of film is look at "Cast Away" the night shots were done during the day as they could film it better and capturing the scenes with light enhanced the picture. Yet, the used filters and also in post to make it look like it was shot at night. Sorry I go on at times.

January 10th, 2004, 08:41 PM	#8
Mark Nauth New Boot Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 15	Film shot in color and then converted to b/w in post looks cheap! They do this constantly in TV in flashback related stuff or if they're trying to have a unique episode thats set in an older period. When they do this it looks horrible. The fact is, I don't think video captures black/white well at all! Doesn't look natural in comparison to true black/white film.