Edge smudge shifting to the left at DVinfo.net

Peter Jefferson · December 21st, 2003, 08:33 AM

hey all, ive noticed on some footage i have taken that there is some "bleeding" of teh harder colours.

now sometimes, its blue, other times its the reds, but its predominately only noticable in post or when capturing stills does it make an impact (albeit a small one)

now its not that significant or noticable, however i have noticed that the footage on my MX500 is alot sharper with the edges.

2 different settings were
detail -2
chroma level 0
chroma phase -3
colour temp +1
master ped -2
auto iris +3
gamma - norm
skin tone - on
matrix - cine
V.detail - thick

the above is a decent setting i found, however it stil shifts absolute colours slightly to the left..

when i adjsut the temp even more, the shifting is VERY noticable.. the actual colours change, but saturation gets washed out..

im thinking its a PAL thing with the Chroma levels messing teh temperature...

but i dunno why the detail level would deteriorate, unless its my eyes, playing up with the wash out...

any ideas on some good sharp settings with minimal phasing.??
i used a template from Panasonic which goes thru each config and i used teh chroma pahse which offers the most accurate colour reproduction.. now i got these templates from Rexel (oz distribtor) and it actually looks like phasing at -2 is alot more accurate than 0

anyways, jsut wodnering as ive done alof of prjects which im hapy with, but lookin back, i think they could have been better if i could determine the best config..

thanks in advance for any input.. ;)

David Bass · December 22nd, 2003, 05:07 AM

Peter
I too have noticed a colour bleed whilst shooting
some soccer/football footage.
Its anoying but at the moment on my pal dvx100
I havnt got any settings that will aliviate the problem permanantly
Whilst Im messaging another pal user maybe we could keep a bit more in touch, because a lot of the discussions are about ntsc.
Forinstance whats your settings whilst in scene file 5 [25p thick]
when shooting action when having to pan quicker than you would
like and avoid that jerkyness
thanks in advance
Dave............marry xmas

Peter Jefferson · December 22nd, 2003, 07:33 AM

my progressive settings are set to defaults..

speaking of soccer, only this weekend did i complete a soccer profile for a 10 yr old socer prodigy down here..

I ran it using 50i, and everything was set flat apart from the detail +1) auto iris (+3) and master Ped (-2)

using a shutter of 1/250, the footage came out ok and on a television screen or monitor it looks good...

now i also think this shifting may be from my video card as im using an ATI radeon 9000pro which is runnign ATI hydravision which refines the reslutions of video formats (so you dont get the pixelated blockiness... )

Another thin i noticed was a thin line on the left hand side (outside the actual safe area) which is unseen unless your in post... this looks like a tape head thing or maybe even something with the lense..

apart from these anomolies, this cam kicks so much ass it isnt funny...

David Bass · December 22nd, 2003, 12:29 PM

Peter
I appreciate your responce but Iwas really refering to the
25p scene file 5 mode with the jerkyness when panning faster than you would prefer,shooting live action sport forinstance.

Peter Jefferson · December 23rd, 2003, 04:22 PM

oh, sorry mate..

that jerkiness of standard with progressive as well as Frame capable cams (XLis, MX500 etc)

Its due to the fact that the image isnt interlaced so you literaly taking a series of stills which are being displayed progressively...

moving back to the topic, watching the footage on a multitude of various diplays in DVD format (pretty low @ 5900kbps) the bleed is not apparent..

i think its a GFX card issue...

Shai Levy · December 23rd, 2003, 05:50 PM

peter, i think you refer to the characteristic of the DV color sample.
these bleeding / artifacts, uneven, appears to get stronger when it gets to the far sides of the frame.... normal.

try to reduce color level. take matrix to normal and go a few steps with the chroma level. depends of course what you're shooting, but i rarely use the cine matrix, and almost always keep my chroma level around -2 / -4

see if this article helps to explain this phenomenon. you'll have to log in in order to read it.

http://www.dv.com/columns/columns_it...equestid=39022

hope it helps.

December 21st, 2003, 08:33 AM	#1
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	Edge smudge shifting to the left hey all, ive noticed on some footage i have taken that there is some "bleeding" of teh harder colours. now sometimes, its blue, other times its the reds, but its predominately only noticable in post or when capturing stills does it make an impact (albeit a small one) now its not that significant or noticable, however i have noticed that the footage on my MX500 is alot sharper with the edges. 2 different settings were detail -2 chroma level 0 chroma phase -3 colour temp +1 master ped -2 auto iris +3 gamma - norm skin tone - on matrix - cine V.detail - thick the above is a decent setting i found, however it stil shifts absolute colours slightly to the left.. when i adjsut the temp even more, the shifting is VERY noticable.. the actual colours change, but saturation gets washed out.. im thinking its a PAL thing with the Chroma levels messing teh temperature... but i dunno why the detail level would deteriorate, unless its my eyes, playing up with the wash out... any ideas on some good sharp settings with minimal phasing.?? i used a template from Panasonic which goes thru each config and i used teh chroma pahse which offers the most accurate colour reproduction.. now i got these templates from Rexel (oz distribtor) and it actually looks like phasing at -2 is alot more accurate than 0 anyways, jsut wodnering as ive done alof of prjects which im hapy with, but lookin back, i think they could have been better if i could determine the best config.. thanks in advance for any input.. ;)

December 22nd, 2003, 05:07 AM	#2
David Bass New Boot Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: u.k. Posts: 23	colour bleed Peter I too have noticed a colour bleed whilst shooting some soccer/football footage. Its anoying but at the moment on my pal dvx100 I havnt got any settings that will aliviate the problem permanantly Whilst Im messaging another pal user maybe we could keep a bit more in touch, because a lot of the discussions are about ntsc. Forinstance whats your settings whilst in scene file 5 [25p thick] when shooting action when having to pan quicker than you would like and avoid that jerkyness thanks in advance Dave............marry xmas

December 22nd, 2003, 12:29 PM	#4
David Bass New Boot Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: u.k. Posts: 23	jerky Peter I appreciate your responce but Iwas really refering to the 25p scene file 5 mode with the jerkyness when panning faster than you would prefer,shooting live action sport forinstance.

December 22nd, 2003, 07:33 AM	#3
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	my progressive settings are set to defaults.. speaking of soccer, only this weekend did i complete a soccer profile for a 10 yr old socer prodigy down here.. I ran it using 50i, and everything was set flat apart from the detail +1) auto iris (+3) and master Ped (-2) using a shutter of 1/250, the footage came out ok and on a television screen or monitor it looks good... now i also think this shifting may be from my video card as im using an ATI radeon 9000pro which is runnign ATI hydravision which refines the reslutions of video formats (so you dont get the pixelated blockiness... ) Another thin i noticed was a thin line on the left hand side (outside the actual safe area) which is unseen unless your in post... this looks like a tape head thing or maybe even something with the lense.. apart from these anomolies, this cam kicks so much ass it isnt funny...

December 23rd, 2003, 04:22 PM	#5
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	oh, sorry mate.. that jerkiness of standard with progressive as well as Frame capable cams (XLis, MX500 etc) Its due to the fact that the image isnt interlaced so you literaly taking a series of stills which are being displayed progressively... moving back to the topic, watching the footage on a multitude of various diplays in DVD format (pretty low @ 5900kbps) the bleed is not apparent.. i think its a GFX card issue...

December 23rd, 2003, 05:50 PM	#6
Shai Levy Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Berlin, Germany Posts: 31	peter, i think you refer to the characteristic of the DV color sample. these bleeding / artifacts, uneven, appears to get stronger when it gets to the far sides of the frame.... normal. try to reduce color level. take matrix to normal and go a few steps with the chroma level. depends of course what you're shooting, but i rarely use the cine matrix, and almost always keep my chroma level around -2 / -4 see if this article helps to explain this phenomenon. you'll have to log in in order to read it. http://www.dv.com/columns/columns_it...equestid=39022 hope it helps.