New AG-DVX100A announced - please post all threads here - frame grabs available

Frederic Segard · November 24th, 2003, 04:48 PM

Panasonic plans no upgrade path for current DVX owners.

Stephen van Vuuren · November 24th, 2003, 04:58 PM

Frederic:

Thanks for the info - are you getting this from Panasonic directly?

Len Feldman · November 25th, 2003, 03:26 PM

For those folks who are current DVX100 owners (like myself), you might want to wait before you upgrade to the DVX100A. Canon is aggressively promoting rebates on the XL1S ($500 US) and GL2 ($250 US.) I received two emails from Canon yesterday on the subject. For sure, that tells me that they have a lot of these cameras in inventory, but what is suggests is that they want to dump that inventory to make room for new models.

For my money, the current DVX100 is better than either Canon, even without interchangeable lenses, and the DVX100A looks to be be even better. However, the next generation from Canon looks like it's coming "real soon now." If you don't need to buy a new camera immediately, you might wait a bit and see what they (and JVC and others) have up their sleeves between now and NAB 2004.

Best wishes,
Len Feldman
Riverbend Entertainment

Michael Struthers · November 26th, 2003, 05:30 PM

Give me 16x9 or give me death!

Won't Century Optics new anamorphic adapter work on the new dvx100a as well?

Canon's going to have to come up big now to beat this one...

Jarred Land · November 26th, 2003, 08:49 PM

havnt you heard.. canon doesnt make pro-sumers anymore.

Brian Gauthier · November 26th, 2003, 08:51 PM

then what do they make ???

Jarred Land · November 26th, 2003, 08:55 PM

Nice little handy cams. And Digital elphs and Rebels. nice little cameras. Oh they make a damn good inkjet printer as well.

Brian Gauthier · November 26th, 2003, 10:03 PM

so i guess you are anti canon... well different strokes for different folks... ;-)

Jarred Land · November 26th, 2003, 10:32 PM

no way man the XL1 was a fantastic camera, I love Canon. I just got sick of waiting for the XL2... oh about 5 years ago.. and now adays besides looking pretty cool the camera is completely outdated.

It obviously is not a priority for Canon at all... but hey who knows, maybe tommorow the xl2 will come and fall down on my head from the lords above.

But.. to make my point, I am not anti-canon at all, I own at least one product from every product group they sell.

Brian Gauthier · November 27th, 2003, 12:16 AM

yea i understand the waiting thing... i have been on that train for about 4 years now... hopefully soon canon will release that xl2... sorry to assume that about you... it just sounded that way...

peace

Jarred Land · November 27th, 2003, 08:55 AM

hey no problem... it takes alot to offend me. :)

I think its gonna be a big year 2004 for pro-sumers....

Jim Nicholls · November 30th, 2003, 06:52 PM

You gotta admit, Panasonic are making Canon look very unresponsive. The technical achievements announced by Panasonic point to what a fantastic camera the XL1 derivative could become. I just hope Canon add true widescreen as well. Like everyone else I'm waiting, waiting, waiting, but Canon better hurry or else Panasonic will steal a vast number of potential sales (including mine).

Jim

Stephen van Vuuren · November 30th, 2003, 07:18 PM

I think the basic problem with the XL1/XL1s is it's basic design (note I owned an XL1 for almost 3 years).

The interchangable lens feature is great and quality glass abounds for it, from Canon and others (mini35, Optex etc). However, given the limitations of DV format and interlaced images, the Canon glass/lens issues is not the biggest design improvement possible in DV cameras.

The areas are:

(1) Progressive scan. Ironically, the Canon's frame mode eliminates interlace problems but takes away 33% of precious DV resolution. Panasonic realized this and the DVX100 has no peer.

(2) Capture flexibility: Canon only offers 60i and 30fps frame mode. Panasonic offers 24P, 30P and 60i. JVC offers several DV and HD rates. No wonder JVC and Panasonic command mind/press share.

(3) Image control (especially to deal with limited latitude of DV). Panasonic and JVC (Pro-DV Cams) far outstrip Canon's limited controls.

(4) 16:9 image capture: This is still the holy grail. Sony and Panasonic have the only solutions in-cam but neither offers it with full-rez progressive & the rest have to go anamorphic or JVC HD, with it's mixed bad of high resolution and problematic artifacts.

To me, if Canon want to regain respect, they will need to at least offer full progressive scan and 24/30p. To get leadership, they will have to get image control and 16:9 in the package.

I think they should really have a three camera levels:

Entry prosumer: GL2 series
Medium prosumer: XL2 series (XL1 with 24/30p and image controls)
High prosumer/low end pro (XL2 with true 16:9).

Len Feldman · November 30th, 2003, 09:41 PM

Steve:

I agree with you completely. The Canons were first-rate cameras when they were first released, but if it wasn't for the XL series' interchangable lenses, I think that the production community would have completely abandoned them by now. However, the fact is that, as a company, Canon has superb technology; one only has to look at what they're doing in digital still cameras and consumer camcorders to see that they know how to build world-class products.

Everything I've seen and heard leads me to believe that between now and NAB 2004, there's going to be an explosion of lower-cost HD products announced by all the major vendors. No matter how much you like the DVX100A, it's at best an incremental "life extender" for the DVX100 design. It still doesn't have true 16:9, let alone HD, and it doesn't have interchangable lenses. As I said before, if you need a camera and the DVX100A does everything you need, then by all means buy it now (or buy a DVX100 after the A ships and save a lot of money.) But, if you can wait as long as April, then wait and see what arrives at NAB.

Best wishes,
Len Feldman
Riverbend Entertainment

Frederic Segard · December 2nd, 2003, 07:12 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Len Feldman : Steve:
But, if you can wait as long as April, then wait and see what arrives at NAB. -->>>

Unfortunately, annoucements made at NAB are usually just that, annoucements. Take Sony's track record for example, if they annouce something at NAB, it will most likely only be available in Q4 of 2004.

November 24th, 2003, 04:58 PM	#107
Stephen van Vuuren Space Hipster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,508	Frederic: Thanks for the info - are you getting this from Panasonic directly? __________________ stephen v2 www.insaturnsrings.com

November 30th, 2003, 07:18 PM	#118
Stephen van Vuuren Space Hipster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,508	I think the basic problem with the XL1/XL1s is it's basic design (note I owned an XL1 for almost 3 years). The interchangable lens feature is great and quality glass abounds for it, from Canon and others (mini35, Optex etc). However, given the limitations of DV format and interlaced images, the Canon glass/lens issues is not the biggest design improvement possible in DV cameras. The areas are: (1) Progressive scan. Ironically, the Canon's frame mode eliminates interlace problems but takes away 33% of precious DV resolution. Panasonic realized this and the DVX100 has no peer. (2) Capture flexibility: Canon only offers 60i and 30fps frame mode. Panasonic offers 24P, 30P and 60i. JVC offers several DV and HD rates. No wonder JVC and Panasonic command mind/press share. (3) Image control (especially to deal with limited latitude of DV). Panasonic and JVC (Pro-DV Cams) far outstrip Canon's limited controls. (4) 16:9 image capture: This is still the holy grail. Sony and Panasonic have the only solutions in-cam but neither offers it with full-rez progressive & the rest have to go anamorphic or JVC HD, with it's mixed bad of high resolution and problematic artifacts. To me, if Canon want to regain respect, they will need to at least offer full progressive scan and 24/30p. To get leadership, they will have to get image control and 16:9 in the package. I think they should really have a three camera levels: Entry prosumer: GL2 series Medium prosumer: XL2 series (XL1 with 24/30p and image controls) High prosumer/low end pro (XL2 with true 16:9). __________________ stephen v2 www.insaturnsrings.com

November 24th, 2003, 04:48 PM	#106
Frederic Segard Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Montreal, Canada Posts: 209	Panasonic plans no upgrade path for current DVX owners.

November 25th, 2003, 03:26 PM	#108
Len Feldman New Boot Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Redwood City, CA USA Posts: 11	For those folks who are current DVX100 owners (like myself), you might want to wait before you upgrade to the DVX100A. Canon is aggressively promoting rebates on the XL1S ($500 US) and GL2 ($250 US.) I received two emails from Canon yesterday on the subject. For sure, that tells me that they have a lot of these cameras in inventory, but what is suggests is that they want to dump that inventory to make room for new models. For my money, the current DVX100 is better than either Canon, even without interchangeable lenses, and the DVX100A looks to be be even better. However, the next generation from Canon looks like it's coming "real soon now." If you don't need to buy a new camera immediately, you might wait a bit and see what they (and JVC and others) have up their sleeves between now and NAB 2004. Best wishes, Len Feldman Riverbend Entertainment

November 26th, 2003, 05:30 PM	#109
Michael Struthers Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: SF, Ca Posts: 421	Give me 16x9 or give me death! Won't Century Optics new anamorphic adapter work on the new dvx100a as well? Canon's going to have to come up big now to beat this one...

November 26th, 2003, 08:49 PM	#110
Jarred Land DVX User Join Date: May 2003 Location: Vancouver Posts: 281	havnt you heard.. canon doesnt make pro-sumers anymore.

November 26th, 2003, 08:51 PM	#111
Brian Gauthier Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: honolulu, hi Posts: 54	then what do they make ???

November 26th, 2003, 08:55 PM	#112
Jarred Land DVX User Join Date: May 2003 Location: Vancouver Posts: 281	Nice little handy cams. And Digital elphs and Rebels. nice little cameras. Oh they make a damn good inkjet printer as well.

November 26th, 2003, 10:03 PM	#113
Brian Gauthier Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: honolulu, hi Posts: 54	so i guess you are anti canon... well different strokes for different folks... ;-)

November 26th, 2003, 10:32 PM	#114
Jarred Land DVX User Join Date: May 2003 Location: Vancouver Posts: 281	no way man the XL1 was a fantastic camera, I love Canon. I just got sick of waiting for the XL2... oh about 5 years ago.. and now adays besides looking pretty cool the camera is completely outdated. It obviously is not a priority for Canon at all... but hey who knows, maybe tommorow the xl2 will come and fall down on my head from the lords above. But.. to make my point, I am not anti-canon at all, I own at least one product from every product group they sell.

November 27th, 2003, 12:16 AM	#115
Brian Gauthier Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: honolulu, hi Posts: 54	yea i understand the waiting thing... i have been on that train for about 4 years now... hopefully soon canon will release that xl2... sorry to assume that about you... it just sounded that way... peace

November 27th, 2003, 08:55 AM	#116
Jarred Land DVX User Join Date: May 2003 Location: Vancouver Posts: 281	hey no problem... it takes alot to offend me. :) I think its gonna be a big year 2004 for pro-sumers....

November 30th, 2003, 06:52 PM	#117
Jim Nicholls Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 27	You gotta admit, Panasonic are making Canon look very unresponsive. The technical achievements announced by Panasonic point to what a fantastic camera the XL1 derivative could become. I just hope Canon add true widescreen as well. Like everyone else I'm waiting, waiting, waiting, but Canon better hurry or else Panasonic will steal a vast number of potential sales (including mine). Jim

November 30th, 2003, 09:41 PM	#119
Len Feldman New Boot Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Redwood City, CA USA Posts: 11	Steve: I agree with you completely. The Canons were first-rate cameras when they were first released, but if it wasn't for the XL series' interchangable lenses, I think that the production community would have completely abandoned them by now. However, the fact is that, as a company, Canon has superb technology; one only has to look at what they're doing in digital still cameras and consumer camcorders to see that they know how to build world-class products. Everything I've seen and heard leads me to believe that between now and NAB 2004, there's going to be an explosion of lower-cost HD products announced by all the major vendors. No matter how much you like the DVX100A, it's at best an incremental "life extender" for the DVX100 design. It still doesn't have true 16:9, let alone HD, and it doesn't have interchangable lenses. As I said before, if you need a camera and the DVX100A does everything you need, then by all means buy it now (or buy a DVX100 after the A ships and save a lot of money.) But, if you can wait as long as April, then wait and see what arrives at NAB. Best wishes, Len Feldman Riverbend Entertainment

December 2nd, 2003, 07:12 AM	#120
Frederic Segard Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Montreal, Canada Posts: 209	<<<-- Originally posted by Len Feldman : Steve: But, if you can wait as long as April, then wait and see what arrives at NAB. -->>> Unfortunately, annoucements made at NAB are usually just that, annoucements. Take Sony's track record for example, if they annouce something at NAB, it will most likely only be available in Q4 of 2004.