24p questions

Arne Johnson · August 8th, 2005, 11:03 AM

We shot some footage on 24p and then subsequently shot the rest of our feature in 24pa. We captured the 24pa with the pulldown, and are now working on a 23.98 timeline. What's the best way to bring the standard 24p footage into the workflow?

Thanks,

arne

Saturnin Kondratiew · August 8th, 2005, 05:17 PM

ok....i'm not sure what the hell is going on here..when i'm shooting at 24p i get lots of ghosting when i pan around or zoom in and out on a moving subject..etc....i havent reset the camera yet to original settings ..but i also havnt played with 24p setting much either..so yah...
does anyone know what could be going on here....i recently taped an event and it turned out like $hit....

i dont know if its just my eye..or maybe i'm expecting more..but there is just a ton of interlacing and ghosting especially when up close to the television....bah.....this is frustrating

*so it turns out my tv sux ...i just cheked the footage on antoher telly and it seems to be ok....but still i gues with 24p u cant really whip pan and zoom cuz it'll turn out not to good

Jon Fordham · August 8th, 2005, 07:35 PM

If you're running a Mac system you could use Cinema Tools to perform a Reverse Telecine on the 24P standard clips and then import the reversed clips into FCP and cut away!

Barry Green · August 8th, 2005, 09:57 PM

Yeah, it depends on what editor you're using. If you're using Vegas, you can freely intermix 24p and 24pa footage without doing anything different, or needing to do any pulldown removal, etc.

Saturnin Kondratiew · August 9th, 2005, 09:16 PM

lots of lookers but no replys..hmmm

Stephanie Wilson · August 9th, 2005, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saturnin Kondratiew

ok....i'm not sure what the hell is going on here..when i'm shooting at 24p i get lots of ghosting when i pan around or zoom in and out on a moving subject..etc....i havent reset the camera yet to original settings ..but i also havnt played with 24p setting much either..so yah...
does anyone know what could be going on here....i recently taped an event and it turned out like $hit....

i dont know if its just my eye..or maybe i'm expecting more..but there is just a ton of interlacing and ghosting especially when up close to the television....bah.....this is frustrating

*so it turns out my tv sux ...i just cheked the footage on antoher telly and it seems to be ok....but still i gues with 24p u cant really whip pan and zoom cuz it'll turn out not to good

Dear Saturnin,

I have read that the DVX-100A has a tendandcy to GHOST in 24p. And you should expect the fluttering when shooting in 24p. I've no experience with this but I've read other posts that address the issues of posting 24p on the web. Good luck. I'm right there with you buddy..... not sure what the hell is going on either.

Steph

Saturnin Kondratiew · August 9th, 2005, 10:41 PM

yah...the thing is ....looking at footage on your pc screen is fine..cuz it looks damn good...i've seen tone of videos that are shot on 24p with 1/250 shutter and it looks pretty nice..but now i wonder how it all looks on the television?
hmmm
i gotta do more tests.....

Gev Babit · August 28th, 2005, 12:35 PM

Hey Guys,
On set my finger or when handeling the camera changed the scene file dial to f5 from f6 and shot 24p accidentally. Most of my footage is 24pa but there is some places where it has happened but I dunno where. Is there any way I can check to see which parts are 24p. Im capturing into final cut pro with the advanced pulldown preset so it's removing the pulldown while capturung. I am worried about the parts that were shot with 24p, what will happen when it gets to those parts. I know about one specific part that was 24p but Im sure it has happened a couple of times during shooting and I need some way to know where they are.

Thanks

Barry Green · August 29th, 2005, 01:19 AM

You can easily tell which mode the footage was shot in, assuming you have the original tape (which I presume you do, since you're digitizing from it!)

Just play it back in the DVX, and cycle through the "counter" button options -- one of the options displays the frame rate it was shot at, and it'll either say "24P" or "24PA". Using that you can tell exactly where the switch took place.

Gev Babit · August 29th, 2005, 10:11 AM

Thanks Barry I didn't think of that!!!
You are the man!!

-Gev

Jake Zalutsky · October 7th, 2005, 10:31 AM

I currently edit on premiere pro 1.0 not 1.5 and haven't been able to find out much about it's 24p support vs. premiere pro 1.5. Im ordering a dvx100a sometime early next week and need to know If im going to have to update my software as well. So any information on this would be greatly appreciated, does 1.0 support 24p advanced?...just 24p? or neither? again,thank you for any information on this at all.

I also was wondering if it will be able to do a real 24p timeline so If I put 30p footage into it it would be slowed down a little? I shoot action sports often and was hoping to be able to add 30p footage into the timeline to get a little true slow motion.

-Jake

Preston Herrick · October 7th, 2005, 10:52 AM

Support for 24p was added with 1.5. Your footage will still play in 1.0 or any other NLE for that matter. You just won't be able to remove the pulldown from the footage. All this means is that you won't be able to output a true 24p sequence for say, a filmout (which isn't likely anyway), or do a true 24p DVD. Again, probably isn't a biggy.

I suggest you shoot in 24p Normal rather than 24p Advanced so that the pulldown cadence looks right. Use of 24pa is more appropriate for the conditions above for technical reasons I won't go into.

Jake Zalutsky · October 7th, 2005, 11:01 AM

If I shoot footage in 24p regular (what I planned on) and start a project with that footage then add in 30p footage will the 30p footage be slowed down and playback at 24fps?...can you do this in premiere pro 1.5 if not 1.0?

thanks

Jake

Preston Herrick · October 7th, 2005, 11:07 AM

Yes. Shouldn't be a problem mixing the two. Premiere will not affect any speed changes. Panasonic 24p is actually 29.97 (with the pulldown added), so the frame rate is identical to 30p (which is also actually 29.97). You could also add 60i to the project. Each of the 3 will have a distinct look though.

In fact, Premiere 1.5 has a limitation right now in that it removes the pulldown from 24p material whether you want it to or not. If you're going to mix video types you would be better off with 1.0!

Jake Zalutsky · October 7th, 2005, 11:14 AM

See the thing is I wanted it to slow it down, read orginal post, when I shoot action sports Its nice to mix the slightly slowed down footage with the real time stuff. So if I used 1.5 It would slow it down? getting smooth true slow motion with no resolution loss would be really nice even if it is just a little bit
slower...although 20% slower is actually pretty good.

thanks

-Jake

August 8th, 2005, 11:03 AM	#511
Arne Johnson Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: United States Posts: 88	24p on a 23.98fps timeline? We shot some footage on 24p and then subsequently shot the rest of our feature in 24pa. We captured the 24pa with the pulldown, and are now working on a 23.98 timeline. What's the best way to bring the standard 24p footage into the workflow? Thanks, arne

August 8th, 2005, 05:17 PM	#512
Saturnin Kondratiew Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: vancouver Posts: 310	issues with DVX100a-shooting in 24p ok....i'm not sure what the hell is going on here..when i'm shooting at 24p i get lots of ghosting when i pan around or zoom in and out on a moving subject..etc....i havent reset the camera yet to original settings ..but i also havnt played with 24p setting much either..so yah... does anyone know what could be going on here....i recently taped an event and it turned out like $hit.... i dont know if its just my eye..or maybe i'm expecting more..but there is just a ton of interlacing and ghosting especially when up close to the television....bah.....this is frustrating so it turns out my tv sux ...i just cheked the footage on antoher telly and it seems to be ok....but still i gues with 24p u cant really whip pan and zoom cuz it'll turn out not to good __________________ My documentaries - http://www.asphaltjunkiez.com Last edited by Saturnin Kondratiew; August 8th, 2005 at 06:58 PM.*

August 8th, 2005, 07:35 PM	#513
Jon Fordham Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 242	Cinema Tools If you're running a Mac system you could use Cinema Tools to perform a Reverse Telecine on the 24P standard clips and then import the reversed clips into FCP and cut away! __________________ Jon Fordham Director of Photography www.jonfordham.com

August 9th, 2005, 09:16 PM	#515
Saturnin Kondratiew Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: vancouver Posts: 310	lots of lookers but no replys..hmmm __________________ My documentaries - http://www.asphaltjunkiez.com

August 9th, 2005, 10:41 PM	#517
Saturnin Kondratiew Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: vancouver Posts: 310	yah...the thing is ....looking at footage on your pc screen is fine..cuz it looks damn good...i've seen tone of videos that are shot on 24p with 1/250 shutter and it looks pretty nice..but now i wonder how it all looks on the television? hmmm i gotta do more tests..... __________________ My documentaries - http://www.asphaltjunkiez.com

August 8th, 2005, 09:57 PM	#514
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	Yeah, it depends on what editor you're using. If you're using Vegas, you can freely intermix 24p and 24pa footage without doing anything different, or needing to do any pulldown removal, etc.

August 28th, 2005, 12:35 PM	#518
Gev Babit Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 40	Accidentaly Shot 24p instead od 24pa on DVX Hey Guys, On set my finger or when handeling the camera changed the scene file dial to f5 from f6 and shot 24p accidentally. Most of my footage is 24pa but there is some places where it has happened but I dunno where. Is there any way I can check to see which parts are 24p. Im capturing into final cut pro with the advanced pulldown preset so it's removing the pulldown while capturung. I am worried about the parts that were shot with 24p, what will happen when it gets to those parts. I know about one specific part that was 24p but Im sure it has happened a couple of times during shooting and I need some way to know where they are. Thanks

August 29th, 2005, 01:19 AM	#519
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	You can easily tell which mode the footage was shot in, assuming you have the original tape (which I presume you do, since you're digitizing from it!) Just play it back in the DVX, and cycle through the "counter" button options -- one of the options displays the frame rate it was shot at, and it'll either say "24P" or "24PA". Using that you can tell exactly where the switch took place.

August 29th, 2005, 10:11 AM	#520
Gev Babit Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 40	Thanks Barry I didn't think of that!!! You are the man!! -Gev

October 7th, 2005, 10:31 AM	#521
Jake Zalutsky New Boot Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 18	Adobe premiere pro 1.0 dvx 24p support I currently edit on premiere pro 1.0 not 1.5 and haven't been able to find out much about it's 24p support vs. premiere pro 1.5. Im ordering a dvx100a sometime early next week and need to know If im going to have to update my software as well. So any information on this would be greatly appreciated, does 1.0 support 24p advanced?...just 24p? or neither? again,thank you for any information on this at all. I also was wondering if it will be able to do a real 24p timeline so If I put 30p footage into it it would be slowed down a little? I shoot action sports often and was hoping to be able to add 30p footage into the timeline to get a little true slow motion. -Jake

October 7th, 2005, 10:52 AM	#522
Preston Herrick Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Wenatchee, WA Posts: 44	Support for 24p was added with 1.5. Your footage will still play in 1.0 or any other NLE for that matter. You just won't be able to remove the pulldown from the footage. All this means is that you won't be able to output a true 24p sequence for say, a filmout (which isn't likely anyway), or do a true 24p DVD. Again, probably isn't a biggy. I suggest you shoot in 24p Normal rather than 24p Advanced so that the pulldown cadence looks right. Use of 24pa is more appropriate for the conditions above for technical reasons I won't go into.

October 7th, 2005, 11:01 AM	#523
Jake Zalutsky New Boot Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 18	If I shoot footage in 24p regular (what I planned on) and start a project with that footage then add in 30p footage will the 30p footage be slowed down and playback at 24fps?...can you do this in premiere pro 1.5 if not 1.0? thanks Jake

October 7th, 2005, 11:07 AM	#524
Preston Herrick Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Wenatchee, WA Posts: 44	Yes. Shouldn't be a problem mixing the two. Premiere will not affect any speed changes. Panasonic 24p is actually 29.97 (with the pulldown added), so the frame rate is identical to 30p (which is also actually 29.97). You could also add 60i to the project. Each of the 3 will have a distinct look though. In fact, Premiere 1.5 has a limitation right now in that it removes the pulldown from 24p material whether you want it to or not. If you're going to mix video types you would be better off with 1.0! Last edited by Preston Herrick; October 7th, 2005 at 01:10 PM.

October 7th, 2005, 11:14 AM	#525
Jake Zalutsky New Boot Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 18	See the thing is I wanted it to slow it down, read orginal post, when I shoot action sports Its nice to mix the slightly slowed down footage with the real time stuff. So if I used 1.5 It would slow it down? getting smooth true slow motion with no resolution loss would be really nice even if it is just a little bit slower...although 20% slower is actually pretty good. thanks -Jake