24p questions

Imran Zaidi · September 15th, 2004, 07:42 AM

Very nicely done. May I ask what that was? Seemed very surreal.

Ozan Biron · September 15th, 2004, 11:38 AM

was just a camera test.... my friend was doing a commerical for panasonic "olymipcs". I asked if i could film some "behind the scenes footage" nothing to speical just test footage!

Roger Van Royen · September 15th, 2004, 02:23 PM

It is nice footage. Cool white ninjas, too, heh heh. How much light was actually used on the set? It's a pretty low key style of lighting, but still looks like quite a lot of studio equipment was utilized, which is something I won't be able to do. Imran, how about some frame grabs from your footage?

Imran Zaidi · September 15th, 2004, 03:17 PM

Well both the things I shot that I was referring to were for other folks, not myself. However, while I don't have that footage, I can probably dish up the tape that I had of the random test footage I took using a few varying settings.

I'll post back as soon as I find it.

Stu Siegal · September 16th, 2004, 09:02 AM

Imran,

Can you post the settings you used on your night shoot? Sounds like they might be a good starting point for some tests.

Imran Zaidi · September 19th, 2004, 10:03 AM

Sorry guys, I haven't had a chance to look for my test tape yet. As soon as I find it, I will post.

Yang Wen · September 19th, 2004, 11:22 AM

24P grabs:

http://www.ywenzstudios.com/caps/01.jpg
http://www.ywenzstudios.com/caps/02.jpg
http://www.ywenzstudios.com/caps/03.jpg
http://www.ywenzstudios.com/caps/04.jpg

shot on DVX100 so would = DVX100A with no gain.

Roger Van Royen · September 19th, 2004, 02:09 PM

Nice. Really impressive how the camera recorded the 4th frame. All of them look better than I thought they would after what I heard about the camera's iffy performance in 24p at night. Do you have any night shots like the first frame only with about 1/4 the number of lights? That'd be pretty close to the typical light levels where I'll be shooting.

Another thing I'm curious about. I assume you white balanced in all four examples? The various types of light don't seem that different from what a human eye would see. I was also surprised that the car headlights had a distinct blue cast when I was expecting a warmer look from them, unless, of course, they all had Xenon bulbs. Frames 1 and 3 seem to be the same location, but that big radioactive looking building (or whatever it is) is green in one frame and blue in the other! Was that a result of your settings or variable lights on the background object?

Thanks for posting the frame grabs, Yang. I already have a much better sense of how the camera will behave at night in 24p.

Imran Zaidi · September 19th, 2004, 07:14 PM

Those colored buildings look like those things from Ken Tanaka's Photos... The crazy cool video 'sculptures' in Chicago's Millennium Park.

http://www.pbase.com/tanakak/crown

Yang Wen · September 19th, 2004, 08:17 PM

I forgot what white balance i used on each shot. The lights definitely weren't that blue.

Roger Van Royen · September 20th, 2004, 03:10 AM

It would appear you're correct, Imran. The sign in one of Yang's pictures says Grant Park, which it turns out was expanded to accomodate Millenium Park. Now I know what that weird "building" really was. I can sleep better not having to ponder that anymore....

Anyone have some twilight 24p stuff? I'd sure like to see what the possibilities are of using the 100A to generate evening-for-night footage with available light only.

J. Lamar King · October 31st, 2004, 03:56 AM

You did the right thing shooting 24pa if you want to record out to 35mm film. It's going to be very expensive to do so, in the tens of thousands of dollars. It can look very good if the film out is done well. Once it is filmed out it will stand up better being projected on large screens. You do need to re-edit in 24fps to have accurate cuts.

If you stay in the video realm you should bump up to Digibeta for projection. I wouldn't project from a DVD. You could even try uprezzing to HD but IMO, that is a hit-and-miss proposition. Some scenes just won't look good.

Scott Ellifritt · October 31st, 2004, 02:56 PM

Transfer depends on the film chain quality you want. For a 90 minute video to film tranfer it can be as much as $50,000.00 as long as you stay with one of the smaller labs in New York, Atlanta, etc. that specialize in this type of service.

Bob Zimmerman · November 3rd, 2004, 06:18 PM

If I've read it right. the DVX100a records 24fps on to a tape at 60fps so you can edit it. If that is true do you thing it would work with FCX or FCX2. No funds yet for the pro.

Barry Green · November 3rd, 2004, 06:49 PM

Any editing program can edit the footage as 60i footage. It'll still look like 24P, but you'd be editing the 60i footage as recorded to tape.

If you want to edit on the raw 24P data, you'd need a program like FCP HD or Vegas, something that knows about the 24P sequence and can extract it from the 60i footage.

October 31st, 2004, 03:56 AM	#492
J. Lamar King New Boot Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Fort Worth, Texas Posts: 15	You did the right thing shooting 24pa if you want to record out to 35mm film. It's going to be very expensive to do so, in the tens of thousands of dollars. It can look very good if the film out is done well. Once it is filmed out it will stand up better being projected on large screens. You do need to re-edit in 24fps to have accurate cuts. If you stay in the video realm you should bump up to Digibeta for projection. I wouldn't project from a DVD. You could even try uprezzing to HD but IMO, that is a hit-and-miss proposition. Some scenes just won't look good. __________________ J. Lamar King DP - Fort Worth, Texas

November 3rd, 2004, 06:18 PM	#494
Bob Zimmerman Major Player Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Illinois Posts: 888	24p edit ? If I've read it right. the DVX100a records 24fps on to a tape at 60fps so you can edit it. If that is true do you thing it would work with FCX or FCX2. No funds yet for the pro.

September 15th, 2004, 07:42 AM	#481
Imran Zaidi Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 1,315	Very nicely done. May I ask what that was? Seemed very surreal.

September 15th, 2004, 11:38 AM	#482
Ozan Biron Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Vancouver, CANADA Posts: 137	was just a camera test.... my friend was doing a commerical for panasonic "olymipcs". I asked if i could film some "behind the scenes footage" nothing to speical just test footage!

September 15th, 2004, 02:23 PM	#483
Roger Van Royen Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 27	It is nice footage. Cool white ninjas, too, heh heh. How much light was actually used on the set? It's a pretty low key style of lighting, but still looks like quite a lot of studio equipment was utilized, which is something I won't be able to do. Imran, how about some frame grabs from your footage?

September 15th, 2004, 03:17 PM	#484
Imran Zaidi Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 1,315	Well both the things I shot that I was referring to were for other folks, not myself. However, while I don't have that footage, I can probably dish up the tape that I had of the random test footage I took using a few varying settings. I'll post back as soon as I find it.

September 16th, 2004, 09:02 AM	#485
Stu Siegal Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Boston Posts: 151	Imran, Can you post the settings you used on your night shoot? Sounds like they might be a good starting point for some tests.

September 19th, 2004, 10:03 AM	#486
Imran Zaidi Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 1,315	Sorry guys, I haven't had a chance to look for my test tape yet. As soon as I find it, I will post.

September 19th, 2004, 11:22 AM	#487
Yang Wen Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 991	24P grabs: http://www.ywenzstudios.com/caps/01.jpg http://www.ywenzstudios.com/caps/02.jpg http://www.ywenzstudios.com/caps/03.jpg http://www.ywenzstudios.com/caps/04.jpg shot on DVX100 so would = DVX100A with no gain.

September 19th, 2004, 02:09 PM	#488
Roger Van Royen Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 27	Nice. Really impressive how the camera recorded the 4th frame. All of them look better than I thought they would after what I heard about the camera's iffy performance in 24p at night. Do you have any night shots like the first frame only with about 1/4 the number of lights? That'd be pretty close to the typical light levels where I'll be shooting. Another thing I'm curious about. I assume you white balanced in all four examples? The various types of light don't seem that different from what a human eye would see. I was also surprised that the car headlights had a distinct blue cast when I was expecting a warmer look from them, unless, of course, they all had Xenon bulbs. Frames 1 and 3 seem to be the same location, but that big radioactive looking building (or whatever it is) is green in one frame and blue in the other! Was that a result of your settings or variable lights on the background object? Thanks for posting the frame grabs, Yang. I already have a much better sense of how the camera will behave at night in 24p.

September 19th, 2004, 07:14 PM	#489
Imran Zaidi Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 1,315	Those colored buildings look like those things from Ken Tanaka's Photos... The crazy cool video 'sculptures' in Chicago's Millennium Park. http://www.pbase.com/tanakak/crown

September 19th, 2004, 08:17 PM	#490
Yang Wen Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 991	I forgot what white balance i used on each shot. The lights definitely weren't that blue.

September 20th, 2004, 03:10 AM	#491
Roger Van Royen Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 27	It would appear you're correct, Imran. The sign in one of Yang's pictures says Grant Park, which it turns out was expanded to accomodate Millenium Park. Now I know what that weird "building" really was. I can sleep better not having to ponder that anymore.... Anyone have some twilight 24p stuff? I'd sure like to see what the possibilities are of using the 100A to generate evening-for-night footage with available light only.

October 31st, 2004, 02:56 PM	#493
Scott Ellifritt Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: MS Gulf Coast Posts: 146	Transfer depends on the film chain quality you want. For a 90 minute video to film tranfer it can be as much as $50,000.00 as long as you stay with one of the smaller labs in New York, Atlanta, etc. that specialize in this type of service.

November 3rd, 2004, 06:49 PM	#495
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	Any editing program can edit the footage as 60i footage. It'll still look like 24P, but you'd be editing the 60i footage as recorded to tape. If you want to edit on the raw 24P data, you'd need a program like FCP HD or Vegas, something that knows about the 24P sequence and can extract it from the 60i footage.