24p questions

Mike Zorger · December 1st, 2003, 02:07 PM

Does anyone have footy of the same thing shot in 24p, 24p A, and 24p A trasfered to film so we can compare???? I wouldnt like to see a before and after shot of some 24p a footy..
thanks

Barry Green · December 1st, 2003, 08:52 PM

24P and 24PA will look identical, assuming editing in a 24P timeline.

So, I'm not sure I know what you're asking-- before and after what? Before and after being transferred to film? Is that the question? If so, you might ask Noah Kadner, I believe he transferred his Promax DVX/PD150 comparison DVD footage up to 35mm...

Jed Williamson · December 5th, 2003, 01:35 PM

Has anyone done this, how would work out?

1. Shoot & edit a project in 60i

2. Run it through a regular tv

3. Point a Dvx100 at the Tv & record in 24p andvanced.

Aside from the possible quality loss are there any conversion problems?

Is this similar to what the dv to film houses do only with a 35 mm camera pointed at the source?

Mike Zorger · December 8th, 2003, 08:48 AM

i'm asking to see what 24p footage looks like before you tansfer it to film compared to what it looks like after you transfer it to film. Transfering it to film must look different right?

Barry Green · December 8th, 2003, 02:02 PM

Are you asking that it be transferred to film, and then that film is telecine'd back to video? I don't know anyone who's done that.

Maybe you could get something transferred to film and then arrange a test with a theater, and project the raw footage using their "advertising" projector, followed by them projecting the actual film footage? Maybe a film festival would be open to doing something like that...

Jaime Valles · December 8th, 2003, 02:56 PM

If you're able to go to New York City, DuArt film labs shows screenings of video they've transferred to film every week. Check out their website www.duart.com for more info.

You might also be interested in this thread:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7879&highlight=duart

Kaifoong Kok · December 9th, 2003, 03:18 AM

What software to use for 25p footage? Can Premier 6.5 do that?

Peter Sieben · December 9th, 2003, 07:38 AM

I think all NLE's can handle progressive PAL (25P) footage. As far as I know only the special pull down methodes with 24P footage requires special options for NLE's. SO far I know Vegas and FCP and perhaps also AVID are prepared for that.

Kaifoong Kok · December 9th, 2003, 10:23 AM

That's great! Thanks Peter.

Mike Zorger · December 10th, 2003, 07:36 AM

ALL I WANT IS TO SEE a split screen of.. 24p advanced footage on the left side, and a what that SAME footage looks like AFTER you trasfer it to film! TONS OF PEOPLE ON THIS SITE HAVE TRASFERED THEIR to film. SO LETS DO SOME TEST.

Jaime Valles · December 10th, 2003, 11:36 AM

Mike,

Transfering DV to film is a very expenssive proposition. To then do a telecine back to video also requires a lot of money. I have a bunch of 24pA footage; if you want to pay for the transfer to film and back to video I'd certainly be up for it! ;)

Really, though, I don't know anyone that has done what you're asking. Not a lot of people have the $$$ available for this sort of thing. The few that have been able to do so are probably busy trying to get their films in some festivals. If I were you, I'd probably pay a visit to the folks at DuArt labs in NYC, or DVFilm.com in Texas. These are the most likely people who would have the kind of "split screen" comparison between the two. Other than that, I have no idea.

Best of luck!

Sean R Allen · December 10th, 2003, 12:11 PM

Actually, I've never heard of anyone transfering from DV to film and then transferring from film back to DV. To do so wouldn't really make sense, because if you wanted DV stuff you'd use the original DV footage since it'd be better quality (not to mention a lot less $$$).

To do what you propose would be interesting, but wouldn't really show/prove anything since there are so many variables involved within each transfer.

Mike Zorger · December 10th, 2003, 01:10 PM

so no one here really transfers to film.

Rob Lohman · December 10th, 2003, 03:58 PM

Well this would be a loss that will result in an unusuable
picture basically. You will see the TV's refresh rate. You won't
see all of the picture and you'll probably also will be able to
see the scanlines etc.

Jaime Valles · December 10th, 2003, 04:24 PM

You can definitely do it, but the image will look terrible. Like Rob said, the loss in quality would be staggering. Unless you're going for some weird visual effect, it's going to look terrible. If you have a DVX100 available, why not just shoot with it instead? Unlesss you're trying to have both a 60i and a 24pA version of your footage... hmmm... In that case, you're better off not using the DVX at all. Just shoot in 60i, and then de-interlace it using DVFilm Maker, Magic Bullet, or Cinema Tools. That way you'll have 60i and progressive versions of the footage.

But whatever you do, don't shoot the TV! 35mm conversion requires very expensive machinery, well beyond normal people's range of affordability. They certainly don't just point a 35mm camera at a TV and record the thing. Your best bet is to use the DVX100 and record in 24pA, 24p, or 30p. The results are stunning for a camera that price.

December 1st, 2003, 02:07 PM	#376
Mike Zorger Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Norther VA Posts: 163	24pA test Does anyone have footy of the same thing shot in 24p, 24p A, and 24p A trasfered to film so we can compare???? I wouldnt like to see a before and after shot of some 24p a footy.. thanks

December 5th, 2003, 01:35 PM	#378
Jed Williamson Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 175	Using DVX100 for 60i to 24p conversion? Has anyone done this, how would work out? 1. Shoot & edit a project in 60i 2. Run it through a regular tv 3. Point a Dvx100 at the Tv & record in 24p andvanced. Aside from the possible quality loss are there any conversion problems? Is this similar to what the dv to film houses do only with a 35 mm camera pointed at the source?

December 9th, 2003, 03:18 AM	#382
Kaifoong Kok Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Malaysia Posts: 57	What software to use for 25p footage? Can Premier 6.5 do that? __________________ KaiF

December 9th, 2003, 07:38 AM	#383
Peter Sieben Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 345	I think all NLE's can handle progressive PAL (25P) footage. As far as I know only the special pull down methodes with 24P footage requires special options for NLE's. SO far I know Vegas and FCP and perhaps also AVID are prepared for that. __________________ Peter / Orphic Film www.orphicfilm.nl and www.myspace.com/orphicfilm

December 9th, 2003, 10:23 AM	#384
Kaifoong Kok Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Malaysia Posts: 57	That's great! Thanks Peter. __________________ KaiF

December 1st, 2003, 08:52 PM	#377
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	24P and 24PA will look identical, assuming editing in a 24P timeline. So, I'm not sure I know what you're asking-- before and after what? Before and after being transferred to film? Is that the question? If so, you might ask Noah Kadner, I believe he transferred his Promax DVX/PD150 comparison DVD footage up to 35mm...

December 8th, 2003, 08:48 AM	#379
Mike Zorger Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Norther VA Posts: 163	i'm asking to see what 24p footage looks like before you tansfer it to film compared to what it looks like after you transfer it to film. Transfering it to film must look different right?

December 8th, 2003, 02:02 PM	#380
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	Are you asking that it be transferred to film, and then that film is telecine'd back to video? I don't know anyone who's done that. Maybe you could get something transferred to film and then arrange a test with a theater, and project the raw footage using their "advertising" projector, followed by them projecting the actual film footage? Maybe a film festival would be open to doing something like that...

December 8th, 2003, 02:56 PM	#381
Jaime Valles Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: New York City, NY Posts: 316	If you're able to go to New York City, DuArt film labs shows screenings of video they've transferred to film every week. Check out their website www.duart.com for more info. You might also be interested in this thread: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7879&highlight=duart

December 10th, 2003, 07:36 AM	#385
Mike Zorger Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Norther VA Posts: 163	ALL I WANT IS TO SEE a split screen of.. 24p advanced footage on the left side, and a what that SAME footage looks like AFTER you trasfer it to film! TONS OF PEOPLE ON THIS SITE HAVE TRASFERED THEIR to film. SO LETS DO SOME TEST.

December 10th, 2003, 11:36 AM	#386
Jaime Valles Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: New York City, NY Posts: 316	Mike, Transfering DV to film is a very expenssive proposition. To then do a telecine back to video also requires a lot of money. I have a bunch of 24pA footage; if you want to pay for the transfer to film and back to video I'd certainly be up for it! ;) Really, though, I don't know anyone that has done what you're asking. Not a lot of people have the $$$ available for this sort of thing. The few that have been able to do so are probably busy trying to get their films in some festivals. If I were you, I'd probably pay a visit to the folks at DuArt labs in NYC, or DVFilm.com in Texas. These are the most likely people who would have the kind of "split screen" comparison between the two. Other than that, I have no idea. Best of luck!

December 10th, 2003, 12:11 PM	#387
Sean R Allen Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: RTP, NC Posts: 66	Actually, I've never heard of anyone transfering from DV to film and then transferring from film back to DV. To do so wouldn't really make sense, because if you wanted DV stuff you'd use the original DV footage since it'd be better quality (not to mention a lot less $$$). To do what you propose would be interesting, but wouldn't really show/prove anything since there are so many variables involved within each transfer.

December 10th, 2003, 01:10 PM	#388
Mike Zorger Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Norther VA Posts: 163	so no one here really transfers to film.

December 10th, 2003, 03:58 PM	#389
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Well this would be a loss that will result in an unusuable picture basically. You will see the TV's refresh rate. You won't see all of the picture and you'll probably also will be able to see the scanlines etc. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

December 10th, 2003, 04:24 PM	#390
Jaime Valles Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: New York City, NY Posts: 316	You can definitely do it, but the image will look terrible. Like Rob said, the loss in quality would be staggering. Unless you're going for some weird visual effect, it's going to look terrible. If you have a DVX100 available, why not just shoot with it instead? Unlesss you're trying to have both a 60i and a 24pA version of your footage... hmmm... In that case, you're better off not using the DVX at all. Just shoot in 60i, and then de-interlace it using DVFilm Maker, Magic Bullet, or Cinema Tools. That way you'll have 60i and progressive versions of the footage. But whatever you do, don't shoot the TV! 35mm conversion requires very expensive machinery, well beyond normal people's range of affordability. They certainly don't just point a 35mm camera at a TV and record the thing. Your best bet is to use the DVX100 and record in 24pA, 24p, or 30p. The results are stunning for a camera that price.