24p questions

Glen Elliott · May 30th, 2003, 11:47 AM

Are these "judder frames" only a problem during cuts- in other words to just avoid cutting on a jutter frame?

Thanks for the input, much appreciated.

Stephen van Vuuren · May 30th, 2003, 02:24 PM

Yep, only on cuts.

Mike Morrell · June 13th, 2003, 08:57 AM

I realize that anyone who really knows the answers to my questions below probably is not a liberty to answer them, but I'll ask anyway....

Does anyone have any inside knowledge about if the new version of premiere (7.0 or Premiere Pro?) will have the ability to import the DVX100 true 24p properly and natively? Will it encode properly with the 2-3 pulldown for DVD mpeg? Will Adobe Encore be able to author 24p DVD mpeg steams?

I cuurently use REEL to author and I do not think that it allows 24p Mpeg. I know that Premiere 6.5 does not handle the DVX100 conversion properly without another piece of software. The only software that I have found that appears to work properly from start to finish with the DVX100 24p in this price range is the SonicFoundry Vegas+DVD. Are tehre any others?

Stephen van Vuuren · June 13th, 2003, 09:11 AM

My guess is you can count on some kind of 24p support the next Premiere release. How much and how well, nobody except someone under NDA can say.

As for low cost alternatives, Vegas 4+DVD is pretty much it, though you could pair Blade 2.0 with whatever package they recommend.

Glen Elliott · June 13th, 2003, 10:31 AM

Unless they make some huge, and I mean HUGE changes to Premiere it's still worth going with Vegas. I've worked exclusivly with Premiere for the last 2 years and have recently in the midst of making the switch to Vegas. You wouldn't believe how much more powerfull of an application Vegas is compared to Premiere...even 24p support aside.
I'm am curious about Adobe Encore's capatability regarding 24p because I feel that'll be THE DVD authoring software to work with- especially with it's tight integration with Photoshop.
We'd have to assume that the upcomming version(s) of Premiere would have 24p support- heck seems like all it's competitors beat it to the punch. However even if the new Premiere DOES have support for 24p there's always the issue of stability. Premiere has long been known as a very buggy program...and thus the reason I'm making the switch to Vegas to begin with.

Mike Morrell · June 13th, 2003, 10:59 AM

I purchased Vegas already, but not unlike you, I have been using Premiere and this old dog does not want to learn too many new tricks. Plus, I took the plunge last year for the Matrox RTX100 board. My premiere is pretty stable (still bombs once or more a day) with the Matrox and the Matrox makes for fast work of a lot of what I do.

I've got a music video shoot coming up that would be perfect for DVD 24p. I've got a lot of time available in post and I'm trying to decide if I should shoot this in 24Pa and even if I should get the anamorphic lens and shoot it that way too. If Premiere Pro were to be coming out say, in August, with full DVX100 support and Encore includes it, I'd shoot this project 24P for sure. But if not, I have to decide if its worth learning Vegas to do this project.

I saw a 15-minute demo of Adobe Encore and it looks GREAT, but this was only a 15-minute demo and the Adobe rep did not stick around to answer any of my probably 10+ questions that I had for him. The PS integration looks like a BIG winner with Encore. They say that they allow a mix of audio types for the same video program. But DVD 24p is not really part of the DVD spec and Adobe has said that Encore is "all about DVD spec". I believe that most films put to DVD are 24P and they work fine, so I'm not sure what is not "in spec" about DVD24p.

Stephen van Vuuren · June 13th, 2003, 11:36 AM

Mike:

I was an old RT2000 user, but sold it and left Premiere 6 behind. I did have the advantage of using used Sound Forge, Acid and Vegas Audio 2 for audio work, so I'm just learning the video/NLE side of Vegas plus the surround mixing.

I can understand if you have no experience with Sonic Foundry products. But they are easy to learn and quite stable, though I have not pushed Vegas 4 that hard yet.

Glen Elliott · June 13th, 2003, 01:10 PM

Mike, if your doing a "music" video wouldn't it benefit you to use a program that litterally has the best audio mixing capabilities on any NLE in it's class?! Vegas is unrivaled in the realm of audio...afterall it DID start as "Vegas Audio", many moons ago.

Granted the Vegas interface is a bit daunting at first. I figured with a good working knowledge of Premiere I'd be able to pick it up, tinker with it, and be editing without a hitch. I was wrong, lol. The workflow is completly different. I'm having to re-learn my entire workflow. However the more I dive into Vegas the more similarities start to arise...just on the surface it looks like an entirely different creature. I'd suggest doing the music video with Vegas...and if you need more training try the DVDs "ClassOnDemand.com" offers for Vegas. They've been incredibly helpfull for me so far- though I haven't actually edited any footage with it yet, I just started disc 2 last night. (I'm trying to learn in between editing weddings with my Pinnacle DV500 on Premiere 6.02, ironicly enough).

Mike Morrell · June 13th, 2003, 01:32 PM

Workflow is the key and what makes it so challenging to switch NLE's. I have been using ACID 4 for several months off an on to mix and encode to DD5.1, so I am somwhat familure with the SF UI.

I'll look into the Class on Demand discs, thanks.

Josh Martin · June 14th, 2003, 06:21 PM

Hey, I hear that there is no auto focus on in the 24p mode, is this correct? Do either one of the 24p modes have auto focus? That's a real downer if they don't. How in the world do you keep in focus if you are doing a moving scene? Please advise. Thanks,
Josh

Chris Hurd · June 14th, 2003, 10:18 PM

It is true, no autofocus in 24p mode. When moving, have an assistant pull focus manually. The concept of the 24p mode is to emulate moviemaking. Certain other aspects of moviemaking including multiple camera crew members to assist with pulling focus on carefully blocked and rehearsed shots will become a neccessary part of this process. Hope this helps,

Stephen van Vuuren · June 14th, 2003, 10:22 PM

Plus the Panasonic is easy to manual focus via the LCD screen and focus scale.

Alex Knappenberger · June 14th, 2003, 10:24 PM

Yeah, that doesn't appear to be such a downer to me, infact thats a plus, it forces you to use manual focus, and thats always a good thing. Shoot with a small aperature, and don't zoom, if your worried about focusing. :D

Nathan Collins · June 24th, 2003, 06:00 PM

I just demoed a DVX100 and was impressed. One thing I could not figure out was turning it back on after it goes into its power saver/stand by mode.

Q: How do you bring it out of its standby mode w/o turning the switch off then on? Thank you.

Marcia Janine Galles · June 24th, 2003, 11:17 PM

I haven't had mine long enough to give you a definitive answer (it just arrived late Friday), but I have found that if there's no tape in it, it doesn't shut off while I mess around with settings/try to check everything out. Surely there must be a way to reconfig the standby setting (somebody?) with the tape still in, but I haven't stumbled across it yet.

Cool cam, isn't it?

MG

May 30th, 2003, 02:24 PM	#197
Stephen van Vuuren Space Hipster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,508	Yep, only on cuts. __________________ stephen v2 www.insaturnsrings.com

June 13th, 2003, 08:57 AM	#198
Mike Morrell Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Norcross GA Posts: 119	24p DVD from DVX100 I realize that anyone who really knows the answers to my questions below probably is not a liberty to answer them, but I'll ask anyway.... Does anyone have any inside knowledge about if the new version of premiere (7.0 or Premiere Pro?) will have the ability to import the DVX100 true 24p properly and natively? Will it encode properly with the 2-3 pulldown for DVD mpeg? Will Adobe Encore be able to author 24p DVD mpeg steams? I cuurently use REEL to author and I do not think that it allows 24p Mpeg. I know that Premiere 6.5 does not handle the DVX100 conversion properly without another piece of software. The only software that I have found that appears to work properly from start to finish with the DVX100 24p in this price range is the SonicFoundry Vegas+DVD. Are tehre any others?

June 13th, 2003, 09:11 AM	#199
Stephen van Vuuren Space Hipster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,508	My guess is you can count on some kind of 24p support the next Premiere release. How much and how well, nobody except someone under NDA can say. As for low cost alternatives, Vegas 4+DVD is pretty much it, though you could pair Blade 2.0 with whatever package they recommend. __________________ stephen v2 www.insaturnsrings.com

June 13th, 2003, 11:36 AM	#202
Stephen van Vuuren Space Hipster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,508	Mike: I was an old RT2000 user, but sold it and left Premiere 6 behind. I did have the advantage of using used Sound Forge, Acid and Vegas Audio 2 for audio work, so I'm just learning the video/NLE side of Vegas plus the surround mixing. I can understand if you have no experience with Sonic Foundry products. But they are easy to learn and quite stable, though I have not pushed Vegas 4 that hard yet. __________________ stephen v2 www.insaturnsrings.com

June 14th, 2003, 06:21 PM	#205
Josh Martin Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 29	no auto focus in 24p? Hey, I hear that there is no auto focus on in the 24p mode, is this correct? Do either one of the 24p modes have auto focus? That's a real downer if they don't. How in the world do you keep in focus if you are doing a moving scene? Please advise. Thanks, Josh

May 30th, 2003, 11:47 AM	#196
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	Are these "judder frames" only a problem during cuts- in other words to just avoid cutting on a jutter frame? Thanks for the input, much appreciated.

June 13th, 2003, 10:31 AM	#200
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	Unless they make some huge, and I mean HUGE changes to Premiere it's still worth going with Vegas. I've worked exclusivly with Premiere for the last 2 years and have recently in the midst of making the switch to Vegas. You wouldn't believe how much more powerfull of an application Vegas is compared to Premiere...even 24p support aside. I'm am curious about Adobe Encore's capatability regarding 24p because I feel that'll be THE DVD authoring software to work with- especially with it's tight integration with Photoshop. We'd have to assume that the upcomming version(s) of Premiere would have 24p support- heck seems like all it's competitors beat it to the punch. However even if the new Premiere DOES have support for 24p there's always the issue of stability. Premiere has long been known as a very buggy program...and thus the reason I'm making the switch to Vegas to begin with.

June 13th, 2003, 10:59 AM	#201
Mike Morrell Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Norcross GA Posts: 119	I purchased Vegas already, but not unlike you, I have been using Premiere and this old dog does not want to learn too many new tricks. Plus, I took the plunge last year for the Matrox RTX100 board. My premiere is pretty stable (still bombs once or more a day) with the Matrox and the Matrox makes for fast work of a lot of what I do. I've got a music video shoot coming up that would be perfect for DVD 24p. I've got a lot of time available in post and I'm trying to decide if I should shoot this in 24Pa and even if I should get the anamorphic lens and shoot it that way too. If Premiere Pro were to be coming out say, in August, with full DVX100 support and Encore includes it, I'd shoot this project 24P for sure. But if not, I have to decide if its worth learning Vegas to do this project. I saw a 15-minute demo of Adobe Encore and it looks GREAT, but this was only a 15-minute demo and the Adobe rep did not stick around to answer any of my probably 10+ questions that I had for him. The PS integration looks like a BIG winner with Encore. They say that they allow a mix of audio types for the same video program. But DVD 24p is not really part of the DVD spec and Adobe has said that Encore is "all about DVD spec". I believe that most films put to DVD are 24P and they work fine, so I'm not sure what is not "in spec" about DVD24p.

June 13th, 2003, 01:10 PM	#203
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	Mike, if your doing a "music" video wouldn't it benefit you to use a program that litterally has the best audio mixing capabilities on any NLE in it's class?! Vegas is unrivaled in the realm of audio...afterall it DID start as "Vegas Audio", many moons ago. Granted the Vegas interface is a bit daunting at first. I figured with a good working knowledge of Premiere I'd be able to pick it up, tinker with it, and be editing without a hitch. I was wrong, lol. The workflow is completly different. I'm having to re-learn my entire workflow. However the more I dive into Vegas the more similarities start to arise...just on the surface it looks like an entirely different creature. I'd suggest doing the music video with Vegas...and if you need more training try the DVDs "ClassOnDemand.com" offers for Vegas. They've been incredibly helpfull for me so far- though I haven't actually edited any footage with it yet, I just started disc 2 last night. (I'm trying to learn in between editing weddings with my Pinnacle DV500 on Premiere 6.02, ironicly enough).

June 13th, 2003, 01:32 PM	#204
Mike Morrell Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Norcross GA Posts: 119	Workflow is the key and what makes it so challenging to switch NLE's. I have been using ACID 4 for several months off an on to mix and encode to DD5.1, so I am somwhat familure with the SF UI. I'll look into the Class on Demand discs, thanks.

June 14th, 2003, 10:18 PM	#206
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	It is true, no autofocus in 24p mode. When moving, have an assistant pull focus manually. The concept of the 24p mode is to emulate moviemaking. Certain other aspects of moviemaking including multiple camera crew members to assist with pulling focus on carefully blocked and rehearsed shots will become a neccessary part of this process. Hope this helps, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

June 14th, 2003, 10:22 PM	#207
Stephen van Vuuren Space Hipster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,508	Plus the Panasonic is easy to manual focus via the LCD screen and focus scale. __________________ stephen v2 www.insaturnsrings.com

June 14th, 2003, 10:24 PM	#208
Alex Knappenberger High School Student Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Canton, Ohio, USA Posts: 609	Yeah, that doesn't appear to be such a downer to me, infact thats a plus, it forces you to use manual focus, and thats always a good thing. Shoot with a small aperature, and don't zoom, if your worried about focusing. :D

June 24th, 2003, 06:00 PM	#209
Nathan Collins New Boot Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oakland, CA Posts: 5	24p standby problem! HELP!!! I just demoed a DVX100 and was impressed. One thing I could not figure out was turning it back on after it goes into its power saver/stand by mode. Q: How do you bring it out of its standby mode w/o turning the switch off then on? Thank you.

June 24th, 2003, 11:17 PM	#210
Marcia Janine Galles Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Camarillo, CA Posts: 340	I haven't had mine long enough to give you a definitive answer (it just arrived late Friday), but I have found that if there's no tape in it, it doesn't shut off while I mess around with settings/try to check everything out. Surely there must be a way to reconfig the standby setting (somebody?) with the tape still in, but I haven't stumbled across it yet. Cool cam, isn't it? MG