30p (easier to edit?) at DVinfo.net

Matthew Kaplan · September 28th, 2003, 09:43 PM

Is it easier to edit in 30p?

Does that look like 24p?

Does using 30p make it easier to compensate for audio drift?

Stephen van Vuuren · September 28th, 2003, 10:09 PM

30P is easier to edit in software that does not support 24fps editing, especially software that does not have support for the two different modes of 24p in the DVX. But in software that does, it's easy to edit 24p and faster to render.

30P looks somelike 24p, but 24p has much more filmlike temporal quality. 30P is a poor choice for transferring to film or for create 24p progressive DVDs.

Per audio drift, I don't think it matters, but I've not tested it.

Barry Green · September 28th, 2003, 10:11 PM

The audio doesn't "drift". It precedes the video by a set amount, but it doesn't drift in and out, or drift out of sync, it's always offset by a specific amount. And in 30P it precedes the video a little bit less than in 24P, I think the delay is 3 fields in 30P vs. 3-4 fields in 24P.

Don Donatello · September 29th, 2003, 03:50 PM

i like editing 30p because there are NO interlace artifacts.
you can scale, pan ,crop zoom in/out on clip and no interlace artifacts. for NTSC viewing it can't be beat ... i come from a film background so i don't quite get why everybody wants to copy film like motion of FILM transferred to NTSV tape ? i find the pull down distracting on camera pans.

IMO 24fps film pan/motion projected onto a movie screen is more closer to 30P viewed on a NTSC monitor then 24p ( with either pull down) viewed on NTSC monitor.

Matthew Kaplan · September 29th, 2003, 10:42 PM

Well right now I have Final Cut Pro 3 and I'm staying in 23.98... normal timeline....

I want to have the final product for video, possible dvd....

I have a slow motion shot at the end...

It seems that I should shoot in 30p becuase my project fits that best.

But the point of my project was to play with the DVX-100 film like capablites.

But the 30p and 24P are about the same right?

It's the gamma settings and other settings that give it the film look right?

If I want it to look like it was shot on 16mm, will 30P still do that?

Stephen van Vuuren · September 29th, 2003, 11:09 PM

30P and 24P are not that similar. The both lack interlaced effects, but 24p looks much more like film due it's temporal image rate and shutter speed options.

Matthew Kaplan · September 29th, 2003, 11:11 PM

Is using 1/60 shutter the way to go?

Stephen van Vuuren · September 29th, 2003, 11:17 PM

24pa, 1/48 (or 1/24th), CineMatrix, Cinegamma is ideal, but you have to watch highlights and watch pan/tilt speeds.

Matthew Kaplan · September 29th, 2003, 11:37 PM

Well from what I'm doing, I was told 24p was the way to go.

And could you elborate on those settings... what they do and when to use them.

how does thick and thin play into this?

Stephen van Vuuren · September 29th, 2003, 11:49 PM

24pa is to be able to extract full 24frames out of footage (see FAQs at top of forum for details).

1/48th is a standard 16mm or 35mm shutter speed to give filmlike motion blur. 1/24 can be used in low light or when more motion blur is desired.

CineMatrix is the color range setting in camera designed to emulate film.

Cinegamma is the gamma curves designed for a flatter less video like curve that has no shoulder (i.e.) response in highlights is straight so once you clip the highlights, all detail is gone.

Pan & Tilt speeds need to follow film methods (search for a post by Barry Green that gives exact numbers - around 8 seconds to cross frame).

Matthew Kaplan · September 29th, 2003, 11:55 PM

yes, but if I'm editing in a 23.98 timeline, 24p NORMAL is the way to go right?

September 28th, 2003, 09:43 PM	#1
Matthew Kaplan Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: United States Posts: 60	30p (easier to edit?) Is it easier to edit in 30p? Does that look like 24p? Does using 30p make it easier to compensate for audio drift?

September 28th, 2003, 10:09 PM	#2
Stephen van Vuuren Space Hipster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,508	30P is easier to edit in software that does not support 24fps editing, especially software that does not have support for the two different modes of 24p in the DVX. But in software that does, it's easy to edit 24p and faster to render. 30P looks somelike 24p, but 24p has much more filmlike temporal quality. 30P is a poor choice for transferring to film or for create 24p progressive DVDs. Per audio drift, I don't think it matters, but I've not tested it. __________________ stephen v2 www.insaturnsrings.com

September 29th, 2003, 11:09 PM	#6
Stephen van Vuuren Space Hipster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,508	30P and 24P are not that similar. The both lack interlaced effects, but 24p looks much more like film due it's temporal image rate and shutter speed options. __________________ stephen v2 www.insaturnsrings.com

September 29th, 2003, 11:17 PM	#8
Stephen van Vuuren Space Hipster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,508	24pa, 1/48 (or 1/24th), CineMatrix, Cinegamma is ideal, but you have to watch highlights and watch pan/tilt speeds. __________________ stephen v2 www.insaturnsrings.com

September 29th, 2003, 11:49 PM	#10
Stephen van Vuuren Space Hipster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,508	24pa is to be able to extract full 24frames out of footage (see FAQs at top of forum for details). 1/48th is a standard 16mm or 35mm shutter speed to give filmlike motion blur. 1/24 can be used in low light or when more motion blur is desired. CineMatrix is the color range setting in camera designed to emulate film. Cinegamma is the gamma curves designed for a flatter less video like curve that has no shoulder (i.e.) response in highlights is straight so once you clip the highlights, all detail is gone. Pan & Tilt speeds need to follow film methods (search for a post by Barry Green that gives exact numbers - around 8 seconds to cross frame). __________________ stephen v2 www.insaturnsrings.com

September 28th, 2003, 10:11 PM	#3
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	The audio doesn't "drift". It precedes the video by a set amount, but it doesn't drift in and out, or drift out of sync, it's always offset by a specific amount. And in 30P it precedes the video a little bit less than in 24P, I think the delay is 3 fields in 30P vs. 3-4 fields in 24P.

September 29th, 2003, 03:50 PM	#4
Don Donatello Hawaiian Shirt Mogul Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: northern cailfornia Posts: 1,261	i like editing 30p because there are NO interlace artifacts. you can scale, pan ,crop zoom in/out on clip and no interlace artifacts. for NTSC viewing it can't be beat ... i come from a film background so i don't quite get why everybody wants to copy film like motion of FILM transferred to NTSV tape ? i find the pull down distracting on camera pans. IMO 24fps film pan/motion projected onto a movie screen is more closer to 30P viewed on a NTSC monitor then 24p ( with either pull down) viewed on NTSC monitor.

September 29th, 2003, 10:42 PM	#5
Matthew Kaplan Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: United States Posts: 60	Well right now I have Final Cut Pro 3 and I'm staying in 23.98... normal timeline.... I want to have the final product for video, possible dvd.... I have a slow motion shot at the end... It seems that I should shoot in 30p becuase my project fits that best. But the point of my project was to play with the DVX-100 film like capablites. But the 30p and 24P are about the same right? It's the gamma settings and other settings that give it the film look right? If I want it to look like it was shot on 16mm, will 30P still do that?

September 29th, 2003, 11:11 PM	#7
Matthew Kaplan Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: United States Posts: 60	Is using 1/60 shutter the way to go?

September 29th, 2003, 11:37 PM	#9
Matthew Kaplan Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: United States Posts: 60	Well from what I'm doing, I was told 24p was the way to go. And could you elborate on those settings... what they do and when to use them. how does thick and thin play into this?

September 29th, 2003, 11:55 PM	#11
Matthew Kaplan Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: United States Posts: 60	yes, but if I'm editing in a 23.98 timeline, 24p NORMAL is the way to go right?