DVX pass through? at DVinfo.net

Humby Valdes · September 15th, 2003, 10:21 PM

Does the DVX100 have “video in” that lets me input say vhs video. I know the sony cameras call it pass through and I have read the canons have a similar feature…

Can anyone fill me in on this.

Sean R Allen · September 15th, 2003, 11:17 PM

Yep. You can come in composite, s-video or firewire. Just hook up the connection, switch to VCR mode and it should be displaying on the LCD and you can record it from there.

Joe Garnero · September 16th, 2003, 06:28 AM

Actually I think Humby is looking for d-to-a functionality. I don't think the dvx supports this without the recording on dv tape first.

Anybody know if the dvx will serve as d-to-a pass-through?

Sean R Allen · September 16th, 2003, 08:31 AM

Actually, it does that too. Hook up the inputs, switch to VCR mode, go to the AV IN/OUT SETUP menu and turn DV OUT on. It'll then pass the analog inputs over firewire without having to record first.

And if you're talking about firewire in to analog out it does that as well. Just hook everything up and go to VCR mode.

It can do anything in ways of "pass through" that the Sony's can do.

Joe Garnero · September 16th, 2003, 08:44 AM

Wow! I found the manual a little unclear on that point. That's a real plus for me as I have a BUNCH of old family vhs-c videos I want to convert.

So the DVX or DVC that is my decision to make now.

Barry Green · September 16th, 2003, 01:08 PM

Go DVX unless you really, really, really can't afford it. The DVX has a lot of great features that the DVC is missing, not the least of which is 24P and 30P, plus daisy-chain firewire recording, focus and zoom readouts in the display, cinegamma, and on and on.

Joe Garnero · September 16th, 2003, 01:31 PM

Barry,
I think in my heart I want the DVX but I also am unsure about spending this much for a first camera.

When was the DVX released and what schedule does Panasonic typically follow for releasing Cameras? I know the DVX is HOT right now, and probably will be for a little while yet, but I can't help but think something will come along to trigger a price-drop or at least better deals.

I have no interest (for now) in 24p because I am using Final Cut Express. The real appeal to the DVX over DVC are the display additions, interval recording, and other minor differences. I will probably use the cam in auto modes at first until I learn to shoot full manual (that is why the display will be important). Is this difference worth $800? It's a tough call...

Barry Green · September 16th, 2003, 05:28 PM

Whether the difference is worth $800 is all up to you, of course, and the DVC80 is an excellent camera.

The DVX was first announced April of 2002 and first shipments occurred in October 2002, so it's about a year old. I don't expect any major changes in the DVX for another year or two. Any new revolutionary announcements in cameras will likely come on the HDV front.

And Final Cut Express can work with 24P-shot footage just fine! You can't extract the original 24 frames, but you can use 24P footage from the camera in a 60i timeline on FCP Express, and it'll retain its film-looking qualities, if that's what's important to you.

Joe Garnero · September 17th, 2003, 06:17 AM

Oh! Well then, that's a different matter. Ok, I'll save my pennies and probably hawk the web for some bargains on DVX cams. It really does have most of what I want (so far).

Thanks for the input. I was sure FCE didn't work with 24p but knowing it does makes that a usefull function in the DVX.

OF, man, maybe I should start looking at $4000 cameras. ;)
I mean I strated figuring I could by a decent DV camera for ~500! Was I wrong...all toys...

Humby Valdes · September 17th, 2003, 08:08 AM

Wow seems like this camera is really the way to go.

But I have a question: What I’ve read from Panasonic states that when the camera shoots at 24fps it does an in camera pulldown to achieve 30fps and that it is compatible but I keep reading on this and many other websites about how people are having problems with their NLE apps cuz they don’t support 24fps footage. I don’t understand?

Mike Morrell · September 17th, 2003, 10:42 AM

Most of the popular NLE's do support 24pa and do the pulldowns to and from the DVX-100 properly. There is one noteable exception that has spawned a lot of discussion. Adobe Premiere Pro does NOT support 24p or 24Pa. This has been a really hotly debated issue between the Adobe supporters and the DVX-100 supporters. We (DVX guys) can't figure out how Adobe's brand new offering that is called "Pro" and meant to compete with FCP does not offer 24Pa and why Adobe is so silent on the issue. They have made a few comments like they want to wait and see where 24p is going and that they could not put every feature request into their product and so forth. But don't let the hullaboo about Adobe Premiere make you think that 24Pa is not supported in NLE's, because it is. I think that you can even do it in After Effects, Adobe's compositing program.

I purchased DVX cameras with the idea of going to DVD as 24P. I own both Vegas, where this can be done, and Premiere/Matrox RTX100 where it cannot. Thus far, I've only shot one project in 24Pa and I have not edited it yet, so I can't comment myself on how well Vegas handles it and how good a 24P DVD looks from 24P DVX source.

Humby Valdes · September 17th, 2003, 10:52 AM

Thats my point all the footage on the VDX is 30fps.

From my understanding the 24fps is only on capture and is pulled down to 30fps on the camera before it is written to tape. So when you inport it to your PC it will always be 30fps.

Am I wrong? What am I missing?

Barry Green · September 17th, 2003, 11:19 AM

You're not missing anything. There are two factors at work here.

1. The DVX captures at 24fps
2. DV requires that footage be 60i (speaking NTSC here)

So, the DVX captures its footage at 24 frames per second, and automatically inserts pulldown into the footage so that it gets recorded at 60i.

Any editor will be fully capable of reading and editing and outputting DVX footage, if you just use the 60i mode. The footage will still look filmlike, it'll still have been captured at 24P, it'll be just like we always used to edit film footage that had been telecine'd to video: that's done at 60i, and it's always worked.

The issue you're looking at is CAN THE EDITOR EDIT THE NATIVE 24P FRAMES? And there are very few that can -- currently the list is Vegas 4.0, In-Sync Blade 2.2, and FCP 4. Those editors can import DVX footage, remove the pulldown, and edit just the original 24 frames, with no pulldown. Which is very nice, and is preferable -- but it's not REQUIRED.

Bottom line: the DVX will work with any editing program. If you want to take maximum advantage of its 24P capabilities, you might want to look at a 24P-native editor, but if you're doing work for DVD or VHS or computer output, any editor can read and edit the footage, treating it as if it was 60i DV footage.

September 15th, 2003, 10:21 PM	#1
Humby Valdes New Boot Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 23	DVX pass through? Does the DVX100 have “video in” that lets me input say vhs video. I know the sony cameras call it pass through and I have read the canons have a similar feature… Can anyone fill me in on this.

September 15th, 2003, 11:17 PM	#2
Sean R Allen Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: RTP, NC Posts: 66	Yep. You can come in composite, s-video or firewire. Just hook up the connection, switch to VCR mode and it should be displaying on the LCD and you can record it from there.

September 16th, 2003, 06:28 AM	#3
Joe Garnero Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Woodstock, GA Posts: 60	Actually I think Humby is looking for d-to-a functionality. I don't think the dvx supports this without the recording on dv tape first. Anybody know if the dvx will serve as d-to-a pass-through?

September 16th, 2003, 08:31 AM	#4
Sean R Allen Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: RTP, NC Posts: 66	Actually, it does that too. Hook up the inputs, switch to VCR mode, go to the AV IN/OUT SETUP menu and turn DV OUT on. It'll then pass the analog inputs over firewire without having to record first. And if you're talking about firewire in to analog out it does that as well. Just hook everything up and go to VCR mode. It can do anything in ways of "pass through" that the Sony's can do.

September 16th, 2003, 08:44 AM	#5
Joe Garnero Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Woodstock, GA Posts: 60	Wow! I found the manual a little unclear on that point. That's a real plus for me as I have a BUNCH of old family vhs-c videos I want to convert. So the DVX or DVC that is my decision to make now.

September 16th, 2003, 01:08 PM	#6
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	Go DVX unless you really, really, really can't afford it. The DVX has a lot of great features that the DVC is missing, not the least of which is 24P and 30P, plus daisy-chain firewire recording, focus and zoom readouts in the display, cinegamma, and on and on.

September 16th, 2003, 01:31 PM	#7
Joe Garnero Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Woodstock, GA Posts: 60	Barry, I think in my heart I want the DVX but I also am unsure about spending this much for a first camera. When was the DVX released and what schedule does Panasonic typically follow for releasing Cameras? I know the DVX is HOT right now, and probably will be for a little while yet, but I can't help but think something will come along to trigger a price-drop or at least better deals. I have no interest (for now) in 24p because I am using Final Cut Express. The real appeal to the DVX over DVC are the display additions, interval recording, and other minor differences. I will probably use the cam in auto modes at first until I learn to shoot full manual (that is why the display will be important). Is this difference worth $800? It's a tough call...

September 16th, 2003, 05:28 PM	#8
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	Whether the difference is worth $800 is all up to you, of course, and the DVC80 is an excellent camera. The DVX was first announced April of 2002 and first shipments occurred in October 2002, so it's about a year old. I don't expect any major changes in the DVX for another year or two. Any new revolutionary announcements in cameras will likely come on the HDV front. And Final Cut Express can work with 24P-shot footage just fine! You can't extract the original 24 frames, but you can use 24P footage from the camera in a 60i timeline on FCP Express, and it'll retain its film-looking qualities, if that's what's important to you.

September 17th, 2003, 06:17 AM	#9
Joe Garnero Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Woodstock, GA Posts: 60	Oh! Well then, that's a different matter. Ok, I'll save my pennies and probably hawk the web for some bargains on DVX cams. It really does have most of what I want (so far). Thanks for the input. I was sure FCE didn't work with 24p but knowing it does makes that a usefull function in the DVX. OF, man, maybe I should start looking at $4000 cameras. ;) I mean I strated figuring I could by a decent DV camera for ~500! Was I wrong...all toys...

September 17th, 2003, 08:08 AM	#10
Humby Valdes New Boot Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 23	Wow seems like this camera is really the way to go. But I have a question: What I’ve read from Panasonic states that when the camera shoots at 24fps it does an in camera pulldown to achieve 30fps and that it is compatible but I keep reading on this and many other websites about how people are having problems with their NLE apps cuz they don’t support 24fps footage. I don’t understand?

September 17th, 2003, 10:42 AM	#11
Mike Morrell Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Norcross GA Posts: 119	Most of the popular NLE's do support 24pa and do the pulldowns to and from the DVX-100 properly. There is one noteable exception that has spawned a lot of discussion. Adobe Premiere Pro does NOT support 24p or 24Pa. This has been a really hotly debated issue between the Adobe supporters and the DVX-100 supporters. We (DVX guys) can't figure out how Adobe's brand new offering that is called "Pro" and meant to compete with FCP does not offer 24Pa and why Adobe is so silent on the issue. They have made a few comments like they want to wait and see where 24p is going and that they could not put every feature request into their product and so forth. But don't let the hullaboo about Adobe Premiere make you think that 24Pa is not supported in NLE's, because it is. I think that you can even do it in After Effects, Adobe's compositing program. I purchased DVX cameras with the idea of going to DVD as 24P. I own both Vegas, where this can be done, and Premiere/Matrox RTX100 where it cannot. Thus far, I've only shot one project in 24Pa and I have not edited it yet, so I can't comment myself on how well Vegas handles it and how good a 24P DVD looks from 24P DVX source.

September 17th, 2003, 10:52 AM	#12
Humby Valdes New Boot Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 23	Thats my point all the footage on the VDX is 30fps. From my understanding the 24fps is only on capture and is pulled down to 30fps on the camera before it is written to tape. So when you inport it to your PC it will always be 30fps. Am I wrong? What am I missing?

September 17th, 2003, 11:19 AM	#13
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	You're not missing anything. There are two factors at work here. 1. The DVX captures at 24fps 2. DV requires that footage be 60i (speaking NTSC here) So, the DVX captures its footage at 24 frames per second, and automatically inserts pulldown into the footage so that it gets recorded at 60i. Any editor will be fully capable of reading and editing and outputting DVX footage, if you just use the 60i mode. The footage will still look filmlike, it'll still have been captured at 24P, it'll be just like we always used to edit film footage that had been telecine'd to video: that's done at 60i, and it's always worked. The issue you're looking at is CAN THE EDITOR EDIT THE NATIVE 24P FRAMES? And there are very few that can -- currently the list is Vegas 4.0, In-Sync Blade 2.2, and FCP 4. Those editors can import DVX footage, remove the pulldown, and edit just the original 24 frames, with no pulldown. Which is very nice, and is preferable -- but it's not REQUIRED. Bottom line: the DVX will work with any editing program. If you want to take maximum advantage of its 24P capabilities, you might want to look at a 24P-native editor, but if you're doing work for DVD or VHS or computer output, any editor can read and edit the footage, treating it as if it was 60i DV footage.