Lighting at DVinfo.net

Ryan Kincaid · January 28th, 2009, 12:01 PM

What's a good lighting rig to get when using a DVX-100?

I'm a nob so I'm buying equipment to learn.

I've seen some examples of movies/shorts that were filmed using the DVX but they seem to be poorly lit.

Perrone Ford · January 28th, 2009, 12:20 PM

Well, this question gets asked once or twice a week. A search of the lighting area (Photon management) should bring some answers, but the biggest question you'll get is "what do you want to light?"

Lighting a 1 person interview is going to be a very different answer than lighting a corporate boardroom, or lighting a scene in a gymnasium.

Ryan Kincaid · January 28th, 2009, 01:17 PM

Well to be more specific, I'm trying to film a movie and I have 4 types of scenes i will need help with. I'm trying to get a professional DP but also interested in purchasing the equipment since I don't want this to be my one and only project:

I'm particular interested in lighting outdoor scenes at night.

Interior nighclub scenes/party scenes.

scenes where it's suppose to be dimly light ie, a dark field

interior scenes but simulating night time for day shoots.

Perrone Ford · January 28th, 2009, 01:54 PM

What's your budget?

Outdoor scenes at night are BIG BUDGET items, and nearly everyone on a budget shoots day for night. Even the pros. If you really do have to shoot it at night, plan on renting that gear. Seriously.

Interior nightclub scenes, especially wide views are best shot on location with the real lights. Otherwise you're going to need a Hollywood budget to do it right.

If you plan to light a couple actors, in a dark field, and it's really night time, you're going to have to do a few things.

1. Get the light high enough to make someone believe it's moonlight
2. Get enough light out there so it doesn't look like a light from a police helicopter (you're going to need good spread).
3. Get enough intensity to actually light the subjects. A few 18ks and a balloon should do the trick. But I don't think you're going to want to foot the bill to buy this stuff.

You're in NY. You have a dozen places to rent all this stuff. Buying it makes little sense unless you want to open a production company.

You mention you saw some stuff shot with the DVX that seemed to be poorly lit. That's likely because the lighting setups you just mentioned would each costs $50k to purchase.

-P

Ryan Kincaid · January 28th, 2009, 03:18 PM

Actually, I did start (just registered as a new company) a production company.

I want to purchase these items because after I finish my film, I want to begin work on a TV pilot. Reguardless if it gets picked up or not, I would do some web episodes to try and get some attention.

My budget is not big by any means. This is a bare bones operation. I'm hoping to spend no more than about $1,000 on lighting. If there's no way I can get the equipment I need then fine, I'll explore the renting option.

Would there be a standard light set up that basically any novice should at least have in his/her inventory?

How I do shoot in the day and get it to replicate night?

I'm currently checking out the "show us your work" section to see how others accomplished these lighting issues but noticed that everyone seems to be using HD cameras.

Perrone Ford · January 28th, 2009, 04:08 PM

Ryan, I am going to assume you are new to this.

Honestly, the lights you'd need to do a TV pilot would be in the low to mid 5-figures range. Frankly, $1k of quality light might buy one small light. Two if you buy used.

To shoot a basic 1 person interview, I typically take:

1. Softbox + stand
2. Foamcore + C-Stand
3. 1Kw backlight with gels
4. 750w light for background or interest, or to bring up ambient depending on locale.

I bought the least expensive professional lights I could get, and I bought some good C-Stands as they are indispensable, and nearly indestructible. So what kinds of prices are we talking?

A decent softbox with the lamp will run $400-$800. And yes, this is low end. A quality C-Stand is about $175 with shipping. For a TV pilot, you may need a dozen or so. The 1Kw open faced light is about $200. The 750w broad light for backgrounds is about $130. You'll also need stands for those lights unless you purchase them in a kit. You'll also need gels for the lights to color match, if you don't purchase it all in a kit.

A 3-light interview kit that contains all the pieces will cost about $900-$1200. And that is essentially to well light someone seated in a chair. Once they are on the move, you've got to light an *area* and not just a person, and the prices start to move up. When you have to light an area where there is no existing light, or very little, then the price moves up exponentially.

I'm afraid your expectations are pretty far removed from reality, and you will now come to understand why so many projects you see are under lit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan Kincaid

Actually, I did start (just registered as a new company) a production company.

I want to purchase these items because after I finish my film, I want to begin work on a TV pilot. Reguardless if it gets picked up or not, I would do some web episodes to try and get some attention.

My budget is not big by any means. This is a bare bones operation. I'm hoping to spend no more than about $1,000 on lighting. If there's no way I can get the equipment I need then fine, I'll explore the renting option.

Would there be a standard light set up that basically any novice should at least have in his/her inventory?

How I do shoot in the day and get it to replicate night?

I'm currently checking out the "show us your work" section to see how others accomplished these lighting issues but noticed that everyone seems to be using HD cameras.

Perrone Ford · January 28th, 2009, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan Kincaid

How I do shoot in the day and get it to replicate night?

You use specific filters (day-for-night filters) and techniques to simulate it. It takes some skill and practice though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan Kincaid

I'm currently checking out the "show us your work" section to see how others accomplished these lighting issues but noticed that everyone seems to be using HD cameras.

For the purposes of lighting, HD and SD are quite similar.

Ryan Kincaid · January 28th, 2009, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perrone Ford

Ryan, I am going to assume you are new to this.

...

I'm afraid your expectations are pretty far removed from reality, and you will now come to understand why so many projects you see are under lit.

LOL, what gave it away?

The fact is I'm a writer first and foremost. Never tried to do the technical stuff until recently where it seems like that's the only way to get my stuff out there is to do it myself.

As far as expectations, I knew even before I joined this board that things were going to be expensive. Being that I don't know anything about lighting, I just wanted to get a sense of what I should look for/anticipate needing.

That's the primary reason I listed the four types of scenes I knew would be most difficult to light so I could figure out what I'd need. That being said, and now having a better idea of what kind of lights I will need, I can go back and put that into my excel spreadsheet and come up with a realistic budget for my film.

Thanks man though for helping to break it down for me. Can I pm you for more direction as I continue on?

Perrone Ford · January 28th, 2009, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan Kincaid

Thanks man though for helping to break it down for me. Can I pm you for more direction as I continue on?

There are a LOT of people here more experienced than me, and likely some near you. But, I'd be glad to offer what help I could. I'm fairly new to lighting myself, just a bit further down this road than you.

But yea, it's going to be very expensive.

Paul Izbicki · February 1st, 2009, 10:13 PM

If i might suggest a quick trip to the Video Copilot web site. You'll find some really great tutorials there, including a couple of day-for-night examples that illustrate how you can get good effects w/o the expense of night lighting.

The guys are right, any attempt to shoot a movie or tv pilot with a basic 3 point light kit or a handful of lights will show the lack onscreen. At the very least, check out the forums on fluorescent lights, they are getting cheaper all the time, and you can even make your own, though Coollights and others are probably able to sell a better built lite for about what you'll spend to make your own. Maybe less if you factor in the value of your time spent earning.

Ryan Kincaid · February 4th, 2009, 11:42 AM

hey Paul thanks a lot. To be honest, I got so caught up looking at the FX stuff I haven't even looked at the lighting help.

On a flip side, I just copped 2 broad lights 1k W for about $180. did I over pay?

Perrone Ford · February 4th, 2009, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan Kincaid

On a flip side, I just copped 2 broad lights 1k W for about $180. did I over pay?

Depends on what they are. So, what are they? Got pics?

Ryan Kincaid · February 5th, 2009, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perrone Ford

Depends on what they are. So, what are they? Got pics?

Smith Victor 750 Quartz Broad Flood Lights

Ryan Kincaid · February 5th, 2009, 08:50 AM

Here's an image of what one looks like. They're used and was told that they could use either 500w or 1000w bulbs

Perrone Ford · February 5th, 2009, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan Kincaid

Here's an image of what one looks like. They're used and was told that they could use either 500w or 1000w bulbs

Hmmm

Smith-Victor | 750SG 1000 Watt Tungsten Broad Light | 401107

January 28th, 2009, 12:01 PM	#1
Ryan Kincaid Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Brooklyn, New York Posts: 73	Lighting What's a good lighting rig to get when using a DVX-100? I'm a nob so I'm buying equipment to learn. I've seen some examples of movies/shorts that were filmed using the DVX but they seem to be poorly lit.

January 28th, 2009, 12:20 PM	#2
Perrone Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 4,100	Well, this question gets asked once or twice a week. A search of the lighting area (Photon management) should bring some answers, but the biggest question you'll get is "what do you want to light?" Lighting a 1 person interview is going to be a very different answer than lighting a corporate boardroom, or lighting a scene in a gymnasium. __________________ DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.

January 28th, 2009, 01:54 PM	#4
Perrone Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 4,100	What's your budget? Outdoor scenes at night are BIG BUDGET items, and nearly everyone on a budget shoots day for night. Even the pros. If you really do have to shoot it at night, plan on renting that gear. Seriously. Interior nightclub scenes, especially wide views are best shot on location with the real lights. Otherwise you're going to need a Hollywood budget to do it right. If you plan to light a couple actors, in a dark field, and it's really night time, you're going to have to do a few things. 1. Get the light high enough to make someone believe it's moonlight 2. Get enough light out there so it doesn't look like a light from a police helicopter (you're going to need good spread). 3. Get enough intensity to actually light the subjects. A few 18ks and a balloon should do the trick. But I don't think you're going to want to foot the bill to buy this stuff. You're in NY. You have a dozen places to rent all this stuff. Buying it makes little sense unless you want to open a production company. You mention you saw some stuff shot with the DVX that seemed to be poorly lit. That's likely because the lighting setups you just mentioned would each costs $50k to purchase. -P __________________ DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.

February 1st, 2009, 10:13 PM	#10
Paul Izbicki Panoramic Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Knoxville, TN Posts: 85	lite enuff If i might suggest a quick trip to the Video Copilot web site. You'll find some really great tutorials there, including a couple of day-for-night examples that illustrate how you can get good effects w/o the expense of night lighting. The guys are right, any attempt to shoot a movie or tv pilot with a basic 3 point light kit or a handful of lights will show the lack onscreen. At the very least, check out the forums on fluorescent lights, they are getting cheaper all the time, and you can even make your own, though Coollights and others are probably able to sell a better built lite for about what you'll spend to make your own. Maybe less if you factor in the value of your time spent earning. __________________ Paul Izbicki i2inewMedia

February 5th, 2009, 08:50 AM	#14
Ryan Kincaid Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Brooklyn, New York Posts: 73	Here's an image of what one looks like. They're used and was told that they could use either 500w or 1000w bulbs Attached Images

January 28th, 2009, 01:17 PM	#3
Ryan Kincaid Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Brooklyn, New York Posts: 73	Well to be more specific, I'm trying to film a movie and I have 4 types of scenes i will need help with. I'm trying to get a professional DP but also interested in purchasing the equipment since I don't want this to be my one and only project: I'm particular interested in lighting outdoor scenes at night. Interior nighclub scenes/party scenes. scenes where it's suppose to be dimly light ie, a dark field interior scenes but simulating night time for day shoots.

January 28th, 2009, 03:18 PM	#5
Ryan Kincaid Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Brooklyn, New York Posts: 73	Actually, I did start (just registered as a new company) a production company. I want to purchase these items because after I finish my film, I want to begin work on a TV pilot. Reguardless if it gets picked up or not, I would do some web episodes to try and get some attention. My budget is not big by any means. This is a bare bones operation. I'm hoping to spend no more than about $1,000 on lighting. If there's no way I can get the equipment I need then fine, I'll explore the renting option. Would there be a standard light set up that basically any novice should at least have in his/her inventory? How I do shoot in the day and get it to replicate night? I'm currently checking out the "show us your work" section to see how others accomplished these lighting issues but noticed that everyone seems to be using HD cameras.

February 4th, 2009, 11:42 AM	#11
Ryan Kincaid Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Brooklyn, New York Posts: 73	hey Paul thanks a lot. To be honest, I got so caught up looking at the FX stuff I haven't even looked at the lighting help. On a flip side, I just copped 2 broad lights 1k W for about $180. did I over pay?