What cheap capture devices are YOU using? at DVinfo.net

Nick Medrano · September 7th, 2003, 12:24 AM

Okay, we all know that using your DVX100 camera as a playback/capture device to your NLE system is a bad idea...so what capture device do you use?

Currently, I use my dvx100 camera but I'm going to move to a deck or something soon. Maybe a cheap camera, but I've heard that mixing different camera brands may mess up some of this video. Is this true?

Mark Monciardini · September 7th, 2003, 01:39 AM

I use the camera too and it sucks. If anyone has any good recommendations I would also be interested.

Barry Green · September 7th, 2003, 01:53 PM

If you're going to get a separate device, a decent deck is a blessing but it also quite expensive. If you go for a second camera to use as your capture device, I recommend you get a Panasonic (other than a GS model) because that way you'll not only be getting a capture device, you'll also be getting a spare battery, a second battery charger, and a backup remote control (because the Panasonic line has compatible accessories across the lineup, except for the GS series which use different, smaller batteries).

Nick Medrano · September 7th, 2003, 05:12 PM

I can't believe Panasonic wants 1K for a stupid little portable VTR!! When I first saw this, I figured...cool...it'll probably be around $500...then I see the pricetag and it's a whopping $1,050.00!

http://www.panasonic.com/PBDS/subcat/Products/vtrs_vcrs/f_ag-dv1dc.html

Okay, so I guess I'll settle for a cheap camcorder to use as a capture/playback device.

Stephen van Vuuren · September 7th, 2003, 09:12 PM

I don't think that price is crazee.

You can get them for $900 or so from reputable dealers. For a unit with a 3.5 Quality LCD, that's decent.

A cam with a 3.5 LCD is not going to be that much cheaper.

Plus, my vote is for the JVC dual SVHS/MiniDV decks. Several models availble, quality used ones for around $500.

They are much more durable and very versatile. I love mine. Plus it makes stellar VHS dubs and upconverts of VHS/SVHS to DV.

Matt Gettemeier · September 8th, 2003, 09:29 PM

I use a trv17 with a 3.5" monitor... sony mini-dv... I'm sure you could get something similar for a pretty low price.

I got a steal on this one new... a couple years ago I got it for around $800, so I expect you can now get something better for less.

So far I've had absolutely NO problems with mixing Sony/DVX. In fact you may not believe it but I still have times that I'm glad I didn't dump this onto ebay for a lousy $400... with a weighted monopod it works as good as the dvx does on a Glidecam V8... yeah, the full-body model! We shot some crap with the V8 and I can honestly say that my trv17 footage (on monopod) is just as smooth as the V8... of course the video itself isn't as good, but click it to b&w and call it camera 2...

Darrell Hinton · September 8th, 2003, 11:49 PM

I am also looking for something to capture with besides my DVX100, which I am now temporarily using until I get another device. I will most likely get a cheap miniDV camcorder rather than a deck, because I just spent $3,500 on the DVX. I was thinking about purchasing this camera (http://www.wolfcamera.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10101&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&productId=13080306) to use for capture. (sorry it's not from a sponsored site but it's the only place I could find that particular camera) That is the cheapest miniDV camera I have found. I was just wondering if this camera would work well as a capture device? Would there be any quality loss from using a cheaper camera like this (I know there probably isn't because the footage is on the miniDV cassette not the actual camera but I just thought I'd be sure)? Also, are there any downfalls to using a cheaper camera as a capture device? I just want to make sure that this camera is going to serve it's purpose well before I drop $400 dollars on it, because I really dont need to be spending any more money this month, but I'd rather spend the extra couple of hundred dollars on an additional camera than to put the extra wear on the DVX heads. Thanks for any help.

Barry Green · September 9th, 2003, 12:25 AM

I'm sure that one would work fine, but if you get it from B&H it's about $70 less ($329.95). Buydig offers it at $287. Shop around before you drop $400 on it from wolf.

Darrell Hinton · September 9th, 2003, 12:20 PM

Thanks for the info. I was planning on shopping around before I bought it, that was just the only place I could find a pic of it, but maybe i was looking in the wrong place on the B&H site. Thanks again.

Barry Green · September 9th, 2003, 12:31 PM

I'd also recommend that you avoid JVC cameras. Apparently more than one JVC product "strips out" the bits that the DVX100 writes into the data stream that identify what mode (24P, 24PA, 60i, etc) the footage was shot in. One of the Sonic Foundry guys verified that this was a problem with a JVC DV/VHS combo deck, and now someone else on the web is reporting that all the DVX100 24P footage he captures through a JVC camcorder is showing up in Vegas as "60i".

So, again, stick with a Panasonic, and avoid using a JVC product for capturing DVX100 footage.

Stephen van Vuuren · September 9th, 2003, 12:56 PM

Strange - I haven't noticed this on my JVC dual deck.

Nick Medrano · September 9th, 2003, 01:42 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Barry Green : One of the Sonic Foundry guys verified that this was a problem with a JVC DV/VHS combo deck, and now someone else on the web is reporting that all the DVX100 24P footage he captures through a JVC camcorder is showing up in Vegas as "60i".

So, again, stick with a Panasonic, and avoid using a JVC product for capturing DVX100 footage. -->>>

Isn't ALL DVX footage really 60i?

Yang Wen · September 9th, 2003, 06:44 PM

the DV53 doesn't have stereo out. I bought it then I realized it only has mono audio output. I plan using this cam as both a capture cam and play back via the A/V output. But mono audio is definitely unacceptable. I exchanged it for a JVC cam. Hopefully you guys are wrong about the JVCs being not fully compatible with DVX tapes. And also.. why would Vegas need to know the data bits on the tape taht tells what mode the footage is in? Makes sense to me if you put Vegas in 24P mode it should just read in the footage and do on-the-fly reverse telecine, just like it does now. it'd be pretty stupid for Vegas programers to add in procedures that automatically disable 24P capturing if it can't find the data bits. So you saying that 3D animations files rendered in 24FPS and with pulldown added won't import into vegas as pure 24P frames?

Barry Green · September 9th, 2003, 08:13 PM

If you want to know how it works, read the whitepaper at:
http://www.sonicfoundry.com/support/productinfo/24p.pdf

Basically, yes, all DVX footage is recorded as 60i. But the Panasonic camera encodes information in the data stream that tells what the type of file recorded is: interlaced or progressive, 30P or 24P or 24PA, and the cadence and which frames are blended.

Vegas reads those bits and is able to perform frame-accurate reverse pulldown on the 24P files. It also knows when you're using 30P and will render appropriately.

I believe you can flag footage and tell Vegas how to interpret the files, whether as 3:2 pulldown or as 60i, etc.

Darrell Hinton · September 9th, 2003, 08:50 PM

Do does anyone know if this problem with DVX footage in Vegas also applies to FCP4 or is it only a problem with Vegas? Now that I know that the DV53 doesn't have stereo out (thanks Yang) I was thinking about getting a JVC camera for around the same price as the DV53. So I was just wanting to know if since I use FCP4, should I not worry about the transfer problem some are having with the DVX footage on JVC cameras?

September 7th, 2003, 12:24 AM	#1
Nick Medrano Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 331	What cheap capture devices are YOU using? Okay, we all know that using your DVX100 camera as a playback/capture device to your NLE system is a bad idea...so what capture device do you use? Currently, I use my dvx100 camera but I'm going to move to a deck or something soon. Maybe a cheap camera, but I've heard that mixing different camera brands may mess up some of this video. Is this true?

September 7th, 2003, 01:39 AM	#2
Mark Monciardini Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 158	I use the camera too and it sucks. If anyone has any good recommendations I would also be interested. __________________ Best Regards, Mark T. Monciardini Riverlight Studios www.riverlightstudios.com DVX100/Final Cut Pro 4/Mac G5 Dual 1.8

September 7th, 2003, 09:12 PM	#5
Stephen van Vuuren Space Hipster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,508	I don't think that price is crazee. You can get them for $900 or so from reputable dealers. For a unit with a 3.5 Quality LCD, that's decent. A cam with a 3.5 LCD is not going to be that much cheaper. Plus, my vote is for the JVC dual SVHS/MiniDV decks. Several models availble, quality used ones for around $500. They are much more durable and very versatile. I love mine. Plus it makes stellar VHS dubs and upconverts of VHS/SVHS to DV. __________________ stephen v2 www.insaturnsrings.com

September 9th, 2003, 12:56 PM	#11
Stephen van Vuuren Space Hipster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,508	Strange - I haven't noticed this on my JVC dual deck. __________________ stephen v2 www.insaturnsrings.com

September 7th, 2003, 01:53 PM	#3
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	If you're going to get a separate device, a decent deck is a blessing but it also quite expensive. If you go for a second camera to use as your capture device, I recommend you get a Panasonic (other than a GS model) because that way you'll not only be getting a capture device, you'll also be getting a spare battery, a second battery charger, and a backup remote control (because the Panasonic line has compatible accessories across the lineup, except for the GS series which use different, smaller batteries).

September 7th, 2003, 05:12 PM	#4
Nick Medrano Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 331	I can't believe Panasonic wants 1K for a stupid little portable VTR!! When I first saw this, I figured...cool...it'll probably be around $500...then I see the pricetag and it's a whopping $1,050.00! http://www.panasonic.com/PBDS/subcat/Products/vtrs_vcrs/f_ag-dv1dc.html Okay, so I guess I'll settle for a cheap camcorder to use as a capture/playback device.

September 8th, 2003, 09:29 PM	#6
Matt Gettemeier Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: St. Louis, Missouri Posts: 936	I use a trv17 with a 3.5" monitor... sony mini-dv... I'm sure you could get something similar for a pretty low price. I got a steal on this one new... a couple years ago I got it for around $800, so I expect you can now get something better for less. So far I've had absolutely NO problems with mixing Sony/DVX. In fact you may not believe it but I still have times that I'm glad I didn't dump this onto ebay for a lousy $400... with a weighted monopod it works as good as the dvx does on a Glidecam V8... yeah, the full-body model! We shot some crap with the V8 and I can honestly say that my trv17 footage (on monopod) is just as smooth as the V8... of course the video itself isn't as good, but click it to b&w and call it camera 2...

September 8th, 2003, 11:49 PM	#7
Darrell Hinton Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 77	I am also looking for something to capture with besides my DVX100, which I am now temporarily using until I get another device. I will most likely get a cheap miniDV camcorder rather than a deck, because I just spent $3,500 on the DVX. I was thinking about purchasing this camera (http://www.wolfcamera.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10101&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&productId=13080306) to use for capture. (sorry it's not from a sponsored site but it's the only place I could find that particular camera) That is the cheapest miniDV camera I have found. I was just wondering if this camera would work well as a capture device? Would there be any quality loss from using a cheaper camera like this (I know there probably isn't because the footage is on the miniDV cassette not the actual camera but I just thought I'd be sure)? Also, are there any downfalls to using a cheaper camera as a capture device? I just want to make sure that this camera is going to serve it's purpose well before I drop $400 dollars on it, because I really dont need to be spending any more money this month, but I'd rather spend the extra couple of hundred dollars on an additional camera than to put the extra wear on the DVX heads. Thanks for any help.

September 9th, 2003, 12:25 AM	#8
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	I'm sure that one would work fine, but if you get it from B&H it's about $70 less ($329.95). Buydig offers it at $287. Shop around before you drop $400 on it from wolf.

September 9th, 2003, 12:20 PM	#9
Darrell Hinton Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 77	Thanks for the info. I was planning on shopping around before I bought it, that was just the only place I could find a pic of it, but maybe i was looking in the wrong place on the B&H site. Thanks again.

September 9th, 2003, 12:31 PM	#10
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	I'd also recommend that you avoid JVC cameras. Apparently more than one JVC product "strips out" the bits that the DVX100 writes into the data stream that identify what mode (24P, 24PA, 60i, etc) the footage was shot in. One of the Sonic Foundry guys verified that this was a problem with a JVC DV/VHS combo deck, and now someone else on the web is reporting that all the DVX100 24P footage he captures through a JVC camcorder is showing up in Vegas as "60i". So, again, stick with a Panasonic, and avoid using a JVC product for capturing DVX100 footage.

September 9th, 2003, 01:42 PM	#12
Nick Medrano Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 331	<<<-- Originally posted by Barry Green : One of the Sonic Foundry guys verified that this was a problem with a JVC DV/VHS combo deck, and now someone else on the web is reporting that all the DVX100 24P footage he captures through a JVC camcorder is showing up in Vegas as "60i". So, again, stick with a Panasonic, and avoid using a JVC product for capturing DVX100 footage. -->>> Isn't ALL DVX footage really 60i?

September 9th, 2003, 06:44 PM	#13
Yang Wen Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 991	the DV53 doesn't have stereo out. I bought it then I realized it only has mono audio output. I plan using this cam as both a capture cam and play back via the A/V output. But mono audio is definitely unacceptable. I exchanged it for a JVC cam. Hopefully you guys are wrong about the JVCs being not fully compatible with DVX tapes. And also.. why would Vegas need to know the data bits on the tape taht tells what mode the footage is in? Makes sense to me if you put Vegas in 24P mode it should just read in the footage and do on-the-fly reverse telecine, just like it does now. it'd be pretty stupid for Vegas programers to add in procedures that automatically disable 24P capturing if it can't find the data bits. So you saying that 3D animations files rendered in 24FPS and with pulldown added won't import into vegas as pure 24P frames?

September 9th, 2003, 08:13 PM	#14
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	If you want to know how it works, read the whitepaper at: http://www.sonicfoundry.com/support/productinfo/24p.pdf Basically, yes, all DVX footage is recorded as 60i. But the Panasonic camera encodes information in the data stream that tells what the type of file recorded is: interlaced or progressive, 30P or 24P or 24PA, and the cadence and which frames are blended. Vegas reads those bits and is able to perform frame-accurate reverse pulldown on the 24P files. It also knows when you're using 30P and will render appropriately. I believe you can flag footage and tell Vegas how to interpret the files, whether as 3:2 pulldown or as 60i, etc.

September 9th, 2003, 08:50 PM	#15
Darrell Hinton Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 77	Do does anyone know if this problem with DVX footage in Vegas also applies to FCP4 or is it only a problem with Vegas? Now that I know that the DV53 doesn't have stereo out (thanks Yang) I was thinking about getting a JVC camera for around the same price as the DV53. So I was just wanting to know if since I use FCP4, should I not worry about the transfer problem some are having with the DVX footage on JVC cameras?