8 millimeter film to dv? at DVinfo.net

Ron Little · July 27th, 2003, 01:13 PM

I am going to be transferring 8 millimeter film to dv using the dvx 100.

I have never done this before and my search has turned up little on this subject.

Any ideas on settings/process?

Shai Levy · July 27th, 2003, 06:27 PM

i was transferring once super8 to video (was beta). i was screening the super8 and shooting the screen with the camera. camera and projector were aligned as possible. if i had the special back-projection screen, i could be even more precise (but then have to flip the picture in post, as most super8 projectors can not). i was very surprised to have at the end very good results.

now, i'm thinking about the 24p option here. the projector, if runs on 24fps, will throw light for 1/48, then dark for another 1/48 (if it's a normal home projector).... bringing the projector and the camera to a perfect sync looks impossible to me (that's what telecine is for, after all). i'm guessing that the answer is in the camera's shutter speed. but since it can't get lower then 1/24, then you'll never have two different film frames per one video frame, only same amount of light and dark recorded to a single video frame (and which will stay consistent throughout the shooting).
i would leave shutter off (1/48)..

if you can monitor the results while shooting, even on a TV set, you could then watch and see which shutter gives the best result... cos i might have talked some bulls**t here . . . . .

hope it helps.

Ron Little · July 27th, 2003, 06:49 PM

I think I am going to set it up and just play with different settings until I get the best results.

It may be that 60i is the way to go.

Thanks for the reply

Brandt Wilson · July 28th, 2003, 08:17 AM

I am just getting out of the business of transferring film to video. There are processes that will yield better results than off a rear projection screen or off a projected image on a wall.

The system I used is called a workprinter...it is comprised of an 8mm projector and a condenser lens, and projects the image directly into the optics of your camcorder using a 40 watt bulb. A computer is connected to a microswitch in the projector, and an application such as Premiere takes a frame by frame grab of the projected image. You end up with a transfer rate of 6fps and a crisp image that will probably look beautiful on the DVX100.

If you wish, I can email you sample frame grabs.

Brandt

Ron Little · July 28th, 2003, 09:30 AM

That would be cool.

Why are you getting out of the business?

Brandt Wilson · July 28th, 2003, 12:58 PM

Mostly time. Since the process to capture and retime a 400' reel is approximately 4 hours, I didn't have time to pursue the interests it was intended to support, and I have two small children. The time that I was working on the film transfers was time I wasn't with the kids, so it wasn't worth it to me.

Mike Rinkunas · February 1st, 2005, 12:58 PM

Brandt,

If you still have your workprinter, would you be interested in parting with it?

If so let me know.
mike@mrproductions.org
~Mike

Graham Jones · February 1st, 2005, 02:39 PM

I think progressive helps. I transfered s8 shot at 24 frames per sec but playing at 18 to 25p video with the video shutter at 1/50 - no probs. If I turned the shutter speed up, though, it started to flicker.

What's frame rate is your super 8? With the dvx you can do 24, can't you? It's unusual to be going s8 to dv and be able to perfectly match frame rate I think.

Richard Alvarez · February 1st, 2005, 02:44 PM

Its not just the frame rate of the film, its the shutter blades on the projector. Most projectors have two blades, that means every time the frame is pulled down, it's 'flashed' on the screen twice. So you have forty eight images in a second, while you have twenty frames per second exposed. Some projectors have three blades, and some telecine projectors use five. Thats why you need to 'tune' the projector to avoid flicker.

Thats IF you are not using something like a workprinter that captures each frame as a seperate video image and then reassembles them into a movie. http://www.moviestuff.tv/ sells them.

Brandt Wilson · February 1st, 2005, 07:41 PM

Mike,
Sorry, I sold the workprinter last year. Roger Evans, the maker of the workprinters, may know of someone about to sell theirs. They usually go through Roger for a refurb.

Anyone who would like to see sample images should post their email, or send me a message at brandtvideo_at_verizon_dot_net. I'll dig up some full size images for you.

Jesse Bekas · February 1st, 2005, 11:59 PM

I've only used an ELMO for 16mm film to DV transfers at school (WPU). I don't know much about the machine, but it's basically a projector with an S-video out line. I run that into my 60i DV cam and voila. Footage always looks great.

Maybe you can hunt one (or something similar) down.

July 27th, 2003, 01:13 PM	#1
Ron Little Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pensacola Fl. Posts: 627	8 millimeter film to dv? I am going to be transferring 8 millimeter film to dv using the dvx 100. I have never done this before and my search has turned up little on this subject. Any ideas on settings/process?

July 28th, 2003, 08:17 AM	#4
Brandt Wilson Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 220	8mm to DV I am just getting out of the business of transferring film to video. There are processes that will yield better results than off a rear projection screen or off a projected image on a wall. The system I used is called a workprinter...it is comprised of an 8mm projector and a condenser lens, and projects the image directly into the optics of your camcorder using a 40 watt bulb. A computer is connected to a microswitch in the projector, and an application such as Premiere takes a frame by frame grab of the projected image. You end up with a transfer rate of 6fps and a crisp image that will probably look beautiful on the DVX100. If you wish, I can email you sample frame grabs. Brandt

February 1st, 2005, 02:39 PM	#8
Graham Jones Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 489	I think progressive helps. I transfered s8 shot at 24 frames per sec but playing at 18 to 25p video with the video shutter at 1/50 - no probs. If I turned the shutter speed up, though, it started to flicker. What's frame rate is your super 8? With the dvx you can do 24, can't you? It's unusual to be going s8 to dv and be able to perfectly match frame rate I think. __________________ www.irishfilmmaker.com

July 27th, 2003, 06:27 PM	#2
Shai Levy Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Berlin, Germany Posts: 31	i was transferring once super8 to video (was beta). i was screening the super8 and shooting the screen with the camera. camera and projector were aligned as possible. if i had the special back-projection screen, i could be even more precise (but then have to flip the picture in post, as most super8 projectors can not). i was very surprised to have at the end very good results. now, i'm thinking about the 24p option here. the projector, if runs on 24fps, will throw light for 1/48, then dark for another 1/48 (if it's a normal home projector).... bringing the projector and the camera to a perfect sync looks impossible to me (that's what telecine is for, after all). i'm guessing that the answer is in the camera's shutter speed. but since it can't get lower then 1/24, then you'll never have two different film frames per one video frame, only same amount of light and dark recorded to a single video frame (and which will stay consistent throughout the shooting). i would leave shutter off (1/48).. if you can monitor the results while shooting, even on a TV set, you could then watch and see which shutter gives the best result... cos i might have talked some bulls**t here . . . . . hope it helps.

July 27th, 2003, 06:49 PM	#3
Ron Little Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pensacola Fl. Posts: 627	I think I am going to set it up and just play with different settings until I get the best results. It may be that 60i is the way to go. Thanks for the reply

July 28th, 2003, 09:30 AM	#5
Ron Little Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pensacola Fl. Posts: 627	That would be cool. Why are you getting out of the business?

July 28th, 2003, 12:58 PM	#6
Brandt Wilson Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 220	Mostly time. Since the process to capture and retime a 400' reel is approximately 4 hours, I didn't have time to pursue the interests it was intended to support, and I have two small children. The time that I was working on the film transfers was time I wasn't with the kids, so it wasn't worth it to me.

February 1st, 2005, 12:58 PM	#7
Mike Rinkunas Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Allentown, PA Posts: 134	Brandt, If you still have your workprinter, would you be interested in parting with it? If so let me know. mike@mrproductions.org ~Mike

February 1st, 2005, 02:44 PM	#9
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	Its not just the frame rate of the film, its the shutter blades on the projector. Most projectors have two blades, that means every time the frame is pulled down, it's 'flashed' on the screen twice. So you have forty eight images in a second, while you have twenty frames per second exposed. Some projectors have three blades, and some telecine projectors use five. Thats why you need to 'tune' the projector to avoid flicker. Thats IF you are not using something like a workprinter that captures each frame as a seperate video image and then reassembles them into a movie. http://www.moviestuff.tv/ sells them.

February 1st, 2005, 07:41 PM	#10
Brandt Wilson Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 220	Mike, Sorry, I sold the workprinter last year. Roger Evans, the maker of the workprinters, may know of someone about to sell theirs. They usually go through Roger for a refurb. Anyone who would like to see sample images should post their email, or send me a message at brandtvideo_at_verizon_dot_net. I'll dig up some full size images for you.

February 1st, 2005, 11:59 PM	#11
Jesse Bekas Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Ridgefield Park, New Jersey, USA Posts: 572	I've only used an ELMO for 16mm film to DV transfers at school (WPU). I don't know much about the machine, but it's basically a projector with an S-video out line. I run that into my 60i DV cam and voila. Footage always looks great. Maybe you can hunt one (or something similar) down.