to buy a DVX100 or XL1s ????? at DVinfo.net

Brian Gauthier · July 18th, 2003, 05:02 AM

Well i have been reading about both of these cameras as i am in the market for one... i will be mostly using it for Surf Videos... i know alot of people use the xl1 for the lens options but i want to be able to get better (cleaner) pictures than that the xl1 generates... but i Do need the distance that the xl1 gives u...

i am on the North Shore of Oahu, and the distance to the actuall surf is not to far but the canon definately gets u closer... how does the doubler lens work with the DVX100???

any help on this matter would be very usefull...

thanks

Brian ;-)

Stephen van Vuuren · July 18th, 2003, 09:27 AM

That's a tough one. I sold an XL1 to get a DVX100 and love the better picture and true progressive scan.

But I shot surf/nature or similar work, the XL1s is very tempting. I have not seen a test or review of the Century Optics telextender (it's only 1.6x not 2x unfortunately).

I've decided to get the anamorphic as everything I shoot is 16:9 so I just have to live without the telephoto. But I hate throwing away pixels on every shot.

I would suggest renting both cams. Well worth it as DV holds up much better at telephoto and the difference between the XL1s at 24X or 50X (using still 35mm lenses) and the DVX100 will not be huge if you shoot 60i.

However, if you shoot frame mode on the XL1s, the DVX100 in 30p or 24p will blow the XL1s away since frame mode throws away so many pixels and progressive mode gives you more (no interlaced scanning loss).

Brian Gauthier · July 18th, 2003, 07:07 PM

I forgot to mension that if i did go with the xl1 that i would indeed use the frame mode but i would also get a PAL version for the better resolution. but then again i still don't know which one that i do want...

i think that just before i spend the money on either one that i will do as u say and rent the DVX100 (that is to say if i can find one out here on this rock i call home... ;-) and use a friends xl1, and take some vid of the same shot with each to make my decision...

but to judge by what i already know about the xl1 i don't like the resolution that it has (the quality of vid that it captures in frame mode is too, how shall i say, not clear to the eye ?)

i think until Canon updates the CCD's and also incroporates true progressive scan in the xl1 i will be on the DVX100 side for now... ???? ....

Brian

Jeff Donald · July 18th, 2003, 08:05 PM

Surfing videos of tiny surfers, no mater how clear to the eye, won’t be of much value. The Century 1.6X convertor will not be of much help, not near enough magnification. The Image Stabilization that Canon uses on many of their EF lenses make a big difference in high wind and other less favorable conditions.

While I would lean towards the XL1s, Steve's suggestion to rent the cameras is the best advice.

Stephen van Vuuren · July 18th, 2003, 09:57 PM

PAL Frame mode might do the trick theirs also a PAL DVX100...

It boils down to how important long telephoto shots are for you film.

Personally, I tend to like wide, riding the surfboard shots :)

Brian Gauthier · July 18th, 2003, 10:31 PM

So with that said Jeff, would u say that i should lean toards the PAL version of the XL1s ?... i don't think that i could rent one of those out here on this Island... its kinda limited on options for rental houses...

as far as the rental of the DVX100, i still havn't yet found a house that has one for rent...

thanks again for all of your ideas and help

Brian

Jeff Donald · July 19th, 2003, 03:02 PM

Brian, is all your doing with the camera surfing projects? PAL limits you for many other uses of your camera. PAL is great for film transfer of your work, but is very limiting in NTSC land. Maybe rent a XL1 and try taping some surfers. Remember, one of the big advantages of the XL1 is the ability to interchange lenses with the Canon EF lens system. The magnification possible with EF lenses is pretty extreme.

I doubt you'll be able to rent a complete XL1 rig, but at least you will be able to get a feel for the two cameras and that will be a big help in your decision making process.

Brian Gauthier · July 19th, 2003, 04:30 PM

Well not exactly but i can make money that way to pay for the toy... i work for the news as a videojornalist and we use betacam sx cameras... but i cant use them on my off time... so i was in the marktet for a camera of my own...

i would like to use it also for some side projects for work as well... not just surf videos... and eventually i would like to make a film with my friends from school as we all have that in mind, if we can get a GOOD script together... we have the talent to pull it off... just need the time and a bit more equipment... (the camera being the big one as one of us has the gl1, the audio is takencare of as i have a full music studio and have been making music for over 10 years just need a boom and windscreen for the mics...)

so if i did go with the xl1s i believe that the PAL would be the best bet... but with the DVX100 the 24p option is better than PAL no ?

thanks again for all of the input....

Brian

Jeff Donald · July 19th, 2003, 08:06 PM

OK, given that you have other uses for your camera than surfing movies, I would suggest that you get the DVX100 as your main camera. When you decide to do the surfing movie, then investigate renting an XL1 to get your long telephoto shots.

Nathan Gifford · July 20th, 2003, 09:49 AM

The other option is to buy and return. Some vendors give you so many days to return the item after you recieve it (there may be restocking fees). That always invites the risk that vendor will not take the camera back...So try the one you will think you want in case that happens.

I agree wide angle shots are generally the best, but that means taking the camera close to the action. The damage salt water can do has to been seen to be believed. Telephoto shots may be a little less risky than water shots.

The truth is that both cameras are really good and whichever you pick will do a good job. The advantage for the Canon is its modular system (and lenses). The DVX has progressive scan.

Brian Gauthier · July 21st, 2003, 12:55 AM

so with all of the imput from the fourm members, i think that i will do just that... try to rent an DVX100 and use my friends xl1 and make the comparison... i already have my thoughts about the xl1 so its just really how i feel that the DVX100 will perform from the beach... as i don't think that i would want put either one into a water housing and hit the ocean with them... just too risky... there are plenty of other quality 1 chip cameras that i can use for that type of application that are much eaiser and cost effective to replace if something should go wrong....

does anybody have an idea as to where i might be able to rent one of these bad boys in the Honolulu, HI Area ? or even possibly the SF Bay area as i will be heading back that way in the middle of Aug... and could send it back to them...

well thanks again for all of the input on this thread...

Chears
Brian G.

July 18th, 2003, 05:02 AM	#1
Brian Gauthier Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: honolulu, hi Posts: 54	to buy a DVX100 or XL1s ????? Well i have been reading about both of these cameras as i am in the market for one... i will be mostly using it for Surf Videos... i know alot of people use the xl1 for the lens options but i want to be able to get better (cleaner) pictures than that the xl1 generates... but i Do need the distance that the xl1 gives u... i am on the North Shore of Oahu, and the distance to the actuall surf is not to far but the canon definately gets u closer... how does the doubler lens work with the DVX100??? any help on this matter would be very usefull... thanks Brian ;-)

July 18th, 2003, 09:27 AM	#2
Stephen van Vuuren Space Hipster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,508	That's a tough one. I sold an XL1 to get a DVX100 and love the better picture and true progressive scan. But I shot surf/nature or similar work, the XL1s is very tempting. I have not seen a test or review of the Century Optics telextender (it's only 1.6x not 2x unfortunately). I've decided to get the anamorphic as everything I shoot is 16:9 so I just have to live without the telephoto. But I hate throwing away pixels on every shot. I would suggest renting both cams. Well worth it as DV holds up much better at telephoto and the difference between the XL1s at 24X or 50X (using still 35mm lenses) and the DVX100 will not be huge if you shoot 60i. However, if you shoot frame mode on the XL1s, the DVX100 in 30p or 24p will blow the XL1s away since frame mode throws away so many pixels and progressive mode gives you more (no interlaced scanning loss). __________________ stephen v2 www.insaturnsrings.com

July 18th, 2003, 08:05 PM	#4
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Surfing videos of tiny surfers, no mater how clear to the eye, won’t be of much value. The Century 1.6X convertor will not be of much help, not near enough magnification. The Image Stabilization that Canon uses on many of their EF lenses make a big difference in high wind and other less favorable conditions. While I would lean towards the XL1s, Steve's suggestion to rent the cameras is the best advice. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

July 18th, 2003, 09:57 PM	#5
Stephen van Vuuren Space Hipster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,508	PAL Frame mode might do the trick theirs also a PAL DVX100... It boils down to how important long telephoto shots are for you film. Personally, I tend to like wide, riding the surfboard shots :) __________________ stephen v2 www.insaturnsrings.com

July 19th, 2003, 03:02 PM	#7
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Brian, is all your doing with the camera surfing projects? PAL limits you for many other uses of your camera. PAL is great for film transfer of your work, but is very limiting in NTSC land. Maybe rent a XL1 and try taping some surfers. Remember, one of the big advantages of the XL1 is the ability to interchange lenses with the Canon EF lens system. The magnification possible with EF lenses is pretty extreme. I doubt you'll be able to rent a complete XL1 rig, but at least you will be able to get a feel for the two cameras and that will be a big help in your decision making process. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

July 18th, 2003, 07:07 PM	#3
Brian Gauthier Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: honolulu, hi Posts: 54	I forgot to mension that if i did go with the xl1 that i would indeed use the frame mode but i would also get a PAL version for the better resolution. but then again i still don't know which one that i do want... i think that just before i spend the money on either one that i will do as u say and rent the DVX100 (that is to say if i can find one out here on this rock i call home... ;-) and use a friends xl1, and take some vid of the same shot with each to make my decision... but to judge by what i already know about the xl1 i don't like the resolution that it has (the quality of vid that it captures in frame mode is too, how shall i say, not clear to the eye ?) i think until Canon updates the CCD's and also incroporates true progressive scan in the xl1 i will be on the DVX100 side for now... ???? .... Brian

July 18th, 2003, 10:31 PM	#6
Brian Gauthier Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: honolulu, hi Posts: 54	So with that said Jeff, would u say that i should lean toards the PAL version of the XL1s ?... i don't think that i could rent one of those out here on this Island... its kinda limited on options for rental houses... as far as the rental of the DVX100, i still havn't yet found a house that has one for rent... thanks again for all of your ideas and help Brian

July 19th, 2003, 04:30 PM	#8
Brian Gauthier Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: honolulu, hi Posts: 54	Well not exactly but i can make money that way to pay for the toy... i work for the news as a videojornalist and we use betacam sx cameras... but i cant use them on my off time... so i was in the marktet for a camera of my own... i would like to use it also for some side projects for work as well... not just surf videos... and eventually i would like to make a film with my friends from school as we all have that in mind, if we can get a GOOD script together... we have the talent to pull it off... just need the time and a bit more equipment... (the camera being the big one as one of us has the gl1, the audio is takencare of as i have a full music studio and have been making music for over 10 years just need a boom and windscreen for the mics...) so if i did go with the xl1s i believe that the PAL would be the best bet... but with the DVX100 the 24p option is better than PAL no ? thanks again for all of the input.... Brian

July 19th, 2003, 08:06 PM	#9
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	OK, given that you have other uses for your camera than surfing movies, I would suggest that you get the DVX100 as your main camera. When you decide to do the surfing movie, then investigate renting an XL1 to get your long telephoto shots. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

July 20th, 2003, 09:49 AM	#10
Nathan Gifford Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Tickfaw, LA Posts: 1,217	The other option is to buy and return. Some vendors give you so many days to return the item after you recieve it (there may be restocking fees). That always invites the risk that vendor will not take the camera back...So try the one you will think you want in case that happens. I agree wide angle shots are generally the best, but that means taking the camera close to the action. The damage salt water can do has to been seen to be believed. Telephoto shots may be a little less risky than water shots. The truth is that both cameras are really good and whichever you pick will do a good job. The advantage for the Canon is its modular system (and lenses). The DVX has progressive scan. __________________ Nathan Gifford Southern Cyclist Magazine & Productions For quick answers try our Search! To see me and Rob Lohman click here

July 21st, 2003, 12:55 AM	#11
Brian Gauthier Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: honolulu, hi Posts: 54	so with all of the imput from the fourm members, i think that i will do just that... try to rent an DVX100 and use my friends xl1 and make the comparison... i already have my thoughts about the xl1 so its just really how i feel that the DVX100 will perform from the beach... as i don't think that i would want put either one into a water housing and hit the ocean with them... just too risky... there are plenty of other quality 1 chip cameras that i can use for that type of application that are much eaiser and cost effective to replace if something should go wrong.... does anybody have an idea as to where i might be able to rent one of these bad boys in the Honolulu, HI Area ? or even possibly the SF Bay area as i will be heading back that way in the middle of Aug... and could send it back to them... well thanks again for all of the input on this thread... Chears Brian G.