AG-DVX100 Questions & 24pA Problem! at DVinfo.net

Zippy Galoo · July 17th, 2003, 06:14 PM

I just shot some footage in 24PA on the Panasonic AG-DVX100. 24PA is the 24 frame progressive mode with (3-2-2-3 Pulldown). When I view the footage on my TV it appears that there are strobing moire type artifacts on the edges of objects and subjects. IT LOOKS HORRIBLE! WHAT IS CAUSING THIS? HOW DO I FIX IT?

UPDATE: 1 Hour later: I swaped out the RCA cable for an S-Video cable and the "marching ants" / Moire / strobing" practically disappeared.

BUT, PROBLEM NOT SOLVED! How do I make sure it doesn't show up when someone will view the tape? What if they don't have an S-Video cable? Will this problem transfer over to a DVD it I put the project on DVD?

Barry Green · July 17th, 2003, 09:57 PM

You may be encountering the limitations of the TV display in relation to how high-resolution your footage is. In 24PA mode the default setting is "thin" line detail, and thin lines can cause problems on interlaced televisions. If you're shooting for TV output, 24P may be the better choice, as it uses thick line detail to be compatible with interlaced televisions.

If indeed your problem is the thin line detail, you can overcome it by using a flicker-reduction filter in your NLE program (for example, in Premiere, you'd right-click the clip, select "field options", and "reduce flicker"). Try it out, see if it helps...

Zippy Galoo · July 17th, 2003, 10:36 PM

I'm using Vegas 4.0c to edit. My only problem is viewing on a TV. With a RCA connection I see the "marching ants/moire/artifacts" or whatever you want to call them. With an S-Video connection I don't see them. I don't have any probelms in Vegas because it's set up for 24pA. It will automatically remove frames and there isn't a problem with the "marching ants/moire/artifacts" with it's Video Preview.

I just need a solution for when I print to tape. Most people will probably watch the final product on something that relays the signal to a TV via an RCA connection. And if they do that then they will see the problem.

What can I do?

Stephen van Vuuren · July 17th, 2003, 10:38 PM

Slight Vertical Blur when going to VHS.

Zippy Galoo · July 17th, 2003, 11:03 PM

Slight? I'm seeing this stuff all over the picture ! I need a "totally removes it" solution.

Stephen van Vuuren · July 17th, 2003, 11:07 PM

"Zippy" (if that's your real name :)

Using a vertical blur (try from 0.1 - 2 or 3 pixels) will remove the problem. It will soften the image the more blur you use.

Personally, I shoot thin and have not had much problem with display. Make sure you have not cranked up other detail sharpness settings as well.

It pays to spend some time the the manual and experiment with this camera as it capable of hundreds of variations in setting combos.

Stephen van Vuuren · July 17th, 2003, 11:24 PM

24pA is merely a factory default setting. Any user can customize detail, edge enhancement etc, thick/thin mode.

People have had this camera for over a year. Nothing to get excited about.

Just to clarify - it's not 24pA, but as it has already been pointed out, it's the thin/thick vertical detail setting. Thin is for hi-res output (film, progressive DVD, digital projection), thick is for mid/low end NTSC.

Barry Green · July 18th, 2003, 01:26 AM

As Stephen said, the camera's been out for almost 10 months. Thousands of people are using it successfully every day.

There is no problem with 24PA. For many of us, that's all we will shoot.

Perhaps you have a bad composite cable... perhaps it's picking up RF interference... there might be many reasons to explain what's happening to you, but to come on and shout warnings about the camera is simply not responsible nor appropriate. Rest assured that this is not a widespread problem.

Perhaps your camera's RCA video output connector is malfunctioning. No matter what the problem is, it's not an inherent issue with 24PA mode. 24PA is well-known and battle-tested and works just fine.

Stephen van Vuuren · July 18th, 2003, 01:22 PM

I apologize if that's your real name - just sounds like a handle.

Dean Harrington · July 18th, 2003, 08:43 PM

the more you use the cam, the more you realize it's not a simple process to shoot well. Think of this cam as needing the same amount of handling as a film camera. Make use of the detail control.

Matt Gettemeier · July 21st, 2003, 05:11 PM

"I apologize if that's your real name"...

Stephen, I'll say one thing... you are polite.

I have no problem believing that there is in fact a man walking this earth by the name "zippy galoo"... I heard that sometimes when a teen-age crack-induced pregnancy ends in an adoption deal that often the orphaned child is named after a superhero or an upstanding businessman in the local community...

By my estimation Zippy is about 150 years old... check your family tree and you'll find that "Zippy" was as common in the pre-civil war days as "Brandon" is today.

July 17th, 2003, 06:14 PM	#1
Zippy Galoo Tourist Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 3	AG-DVX100 24pA Problem - BEWARE! I just shot some footage in 24PA on the Panasonic AG-DVX100. 24PA is the 24 frame progressive mode with (3-2-2-3 Pulldown). When I view the footage on my TV it appears that there are strobing moire type artifacts on the edges of objects and subjects. IT LOOKS HORRIBLE! WHAT IS CAUSING THIS? HOW DO I FIX IT? UPDATE: 1 Hour later: I swaped out the RCA cable for an S-Video cable and the "marching ants" / Moire / strobing" practically disappeared. BUT, PROBLEM NOT SOLVED! How do I make sure it doesn't show up when someone will view the tape? What if they don't have an S-Video cable? Will this problem transfer over to a DVD it I put the project on DVD?

July 17th, 2003, 10:38 PM	#4
Stephen van Vuuren Space Hipster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,508	Slight Vertical Blur when going to VHS. __________________ stephen v2 www.insaturnsrings.com

July 17th, 2003, 11:07 PM	#6
Stephen van Vuuren Space Hipster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,508	"Zippy" (if that's your real name :) Using a vertical blur (try from 0.1 - 2 or 3 pixels) will remove the problem. It will soften the image the more blur you use. Personally, I shoot thin and have not had much problem with display. Make sure you have not cranked up other detail sharpness settings as well. It pays to spend some time the the manual and experiment with this camera as it capable of hundreds of variations in setting combos. __________________ stephen v2 www.insaturnsrings.com

July 17th, 2003, 11:24 PM	#7
Stephen van Vuuren Space Hipster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,508	24pA is merely a factory default setting. Any user can customize detail, edge enhancement etc, thick/thin mode. People have had this camera for over a year. Nothing to get excited about. Just to clarify - it's not 24pA, but as it has already been pointed out, it's the thin/thick vertical detail setting. Thin is for hi-res output (film, progressive DVD, digital projection), thick is for mid/low end NTSC. __________________ stephen v2 www.insaturnsrings.com

July 18th, 2003, 01:22 PM	#9
Stephen van Vuuren Space Hipster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,508	I apologize if that's your real name - just sounds like a handle. __________________ stephen v2 www.insaturnsrings.com

July 17th, 2003, 09:57 PM	#2
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	You may be encountering the limitations of the TV display in relation to how high-resolution your footage is. In 24PA mode the default setting is "thin" line detail, and thin lines can cause problems on interlaced televisions. If you're shooting for TV output, 24P may be the better choice, as it uses thick line detail to be compatible with interlaced televisions. If indeed your problem is the thin line detail, you can overcome it by using a flicker-reduction filter in your NLE program (for example, in Premiere, you'd right-click the clip, select "field options", and "reduce flicker"). Try it out, see if it helps...

July 17th, 2003, 10:36 PM	#3
Zippy Galoo Tourist Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 3	I'm using Vegas 4.0c to edit. My only problem is viewing on a TV. With a RCA connection I see the "marching ants/moire/artifacts" or whatever you want to call them. With an S-Video connection I don't see them. I don't have any probelms in Vegas because it's set up for 24pA. It will automatically remove frames and there isn't a problem with the "marching ants/moire/artifacts" with it's Video Preview. I just need a solution for when I print to tape. Most people will probably watch the final product on something that relays the signal to a TV via an RCA connection. And if they do that then they will see the problem. What can I do?

July 17th, 2003, 11:03 PM	#5
Zippy Galoo Tourist Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 3	Slight? I'm seeing this stuff all over the picture ! I need a "totally removes it" solution.

July 18th, 2003, 01:26 AM	#8
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	As Stephen said, the camera's been out for almost 10 months. Thousands of people are using it successfully every day. There is no problem with 24PA. For many of us, that's all we will shoot. Perhaps you have a bad composite cable... perhaps it's picking up RF interference... there might be many reasons to explain what's happening to you, but to come on and shout warnings about the camera is simply not responsible nor appropriate. Rest assured that this is not a widespread problem. Perhaps your camera's RCA video output connector is malfunctioning. No matter what the problem is, it's not an inherent issue with 24PA mode. 24PA is well-known and battle-tested and works just fine.

July 18th, 2003, 08:43 PM	#10
Dean Harrington Major Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tokyo Posts: 898	zippy..... the more you use the cam, the more you realize it's not a simple process to shoot well. Think of this cam as needing the same amount of handling as a film camera. Make use of the detail control.

July 21st, 2003, 05:11 PM	#11
Matt Gettemeier Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: St. Louis, Missouri Posts: 936	"I apologize if that's your real name"... Stephen, I'll say one thing... you are polite. I have no problem believing that there is in fact a man walking this earth by the name "zippy galoo"... I heard that sometimes when a teen-age crack-induced pregnancy ends in an adoption deal that often the orphaned child is named after a superhero or an upstanding businessman in the local community... By my estimation Zippy is about 150 years old... check your family tree and you'll find that "Zippy" was as common in the pre-civil war days as "Brandon" is today.