Who all here had problems with the DVX100's heads?

Peter Richardson · October 30th, 2003, 10:32 AM

Hi Marc. My problems with heads were the same as Ted's: the tape was recorded with the dropout--obviously a very bad thing. If this camera wasn't so great in so many other respects, this would be a major reason not get it (especially as it seems a lot of people have problems with this). You might get the Mack extended warranty as who knows what happens to these heads after a year or two of use. Also, if you buy the cam with a visa or mastercard platinum, the warranty is automatically doubled (for free) which is what I'm counting on if I run into more problems down the road. Hope that helps,

peter

Steve Nunez · October 30th, 2003, 06:41 PM

Well put me on the list of those having tape head problems. My DVC80 is brand spanking new and after using it 5 minutes- I noticed tons of drop-outs and weird large pixel blocks on the screen all garbled up......problem is when you're recording you have no idea that your incoming footage is getting messed up- you'll only find out when you try to play back....I ran a head cleaner tape for 10 seconds as per instructions- but still the problem exisists....even worse if I play a tape recorded from one of my other camcorders- it again shows the footage all messed up- which confirms this is a head problem- something is misaligned....I've tested it with footage that plays 100% perfectly previously shot with my XL1S and sure enough pixel boxes with weird colors, lines the right side of the video screen- the rest of the screen is perfect- if the video is FF the pixel boxes disappear- definitely a head problem here!!!!

I only use Panasonic DVM60ME tapes and never had a problem with them when used in a GL2, XL1s, PDX10, Pan Palmcorder and DVX100- but this DVC80 is absolutely recording some weired pixelated video......the DVC80 goes back to B&H tomorrow AM for a replacement unit.....I'm gonna keep my fingers crossed that this was a 1X fluke and that this is not an inherent problem with DVX/DVC series of camcorders......I'll post an update tomorrow with the new unit.

Ted Banucci · October 30th, 2003, 06:47 PM

READ! You have to use the Panasonic MQ tapes!!!!

That fixes everything.

I recently got mine and the camera works like a charm now.....

Steve Nunez · October 30th, 2003, 07:31 PM

Come on now- you "have to" to use a certain brand and type of tape or you'll experience drop-outs or head tracking problems? This can't be true- no other one of my camcorders have ever needed this special attention to tape type- just doesn't sound right for a $2500 Pro mini-DV camcorder! I mean I'm using Panasonic Brand tapes in SP mode in 60 minute capacity as Panasonic recommended in their user's manual.......maybe MQ tapes are more robust or whatever and cease the head issues when other types are used but this sounds like a problem mask or workaround rather than a solid recording head.......my unit goes back tomorrow for another DVC80- if that unit does the same thing then I'll get a refund and look at something else!

Here's exactly what's happening with brand new 60 min Panasonic tapes in a camcorder less than 5 minutes old- and as recommended by Panasonic themselves.......you guys tell me if something's not wrong here!!!!!

http://stevenunez.com/video/panheadprob.mov

PS- The video shows some airbrushed artwork I'm in the process of creating for a show motorcycle for the NY Jacob Javits M/C Show 2004....I was trying to tape a "in progress" type video showing the before, during and after, of the bikes creation...the DVC80 let me down big time as all the footage contained data damage.

Ted Banucci · October 30th, 2003, 07:52 PM

Steve-

I know what you are talking about. I'm peeved over the situation too. I mean, I have to go from $3.00 tapes to $5.60 tapes. I was able to use any kind of tape in my old GL1- but this DVX100 kicked me in the a$$ when I tried to do the same!

Call it a conspiracy, call it whatever you want. Go try getting an MQ tape for yourself and see what happens. It'll work.

I agree- I don't think a $3000 camera should have that kind of discrepancy with tapes. But this camera has the features I want at the cost I can pay. So I am willing to spend an extra $2.60 per tape to make that happen. Maybe if we all make a suit against Panasonic...... nah.

Ted

Steve Nunez · October 30th, 2003, 08:05 PM

Ted,

I just packed the camera up, back in the box about 2 hrs ago- does the Panasonic 'User's Manual" specify MQ series type tapes only? How about Professional Quality (PQ) tapes? If not then I think Panasonic has a serious issue here- from what I recall there was a warning about shooting in 90 min mode and using LP mode- other than that I believe it recommends using genuine Panasonic brand tapes and shooting in 60 min/SP Mode- so the DVM60ME Panasonic Tapes should be adequate as per manufacturer's recommendations.....anything else is just a shady workaround for seemingly delicate heads....I definitely recommend getting an extended warranty to anyone thinking of getting a DVC80 or DVX100!

I have about 50 new Panasonic DVM60ME tapes that are seemingly useless for a DVX/DVC camera---- I thought mini-DV was mini-DV, now we have to be brand and type specific or a camera will not perform...that's horrible- no excuses!
~~ Matter of fact- I'm gonna take the new camera out right there at B&H and if it does the same thing- I'll show the store staff and even use a new sealed tape----- and i'll walk out with my $2500!

(such a shame for such a super camera- I guess even camcorders have a "kryptonite" !!!!!)

Ted Banucci · October 30th, 2003, 08:13 PM

I don't blame you. Get a GL2 for $1000 less....

Steve Nunez · October 30th, 2003, 08:27 PM

What's even more strange is that I just dug up an old tape shot with my DVX100 and just played it with a Panasonic Palmcorder and the footage is 100% perfect- and this was shot with a DVX100 and on Pan DVM60ME tape- so what gives????

If it absolutely NEEDED MQ series tapes then the footage I'm looking at of saw whet owls should be messed up- but it's perfect------nah something's up here....I'm keeping my fingers crossed for tomorrow's DVC80.

Plus a few replies back someone wrote that they still had head problems even when using the MQ tapes-----come on Panasonic- fix these DVC/X cameras!

(( Problem is- what do i get next if the DVC80 craps out?? ))

Side note: Has anyone got their DVX or DVC's working with ME tapes at all? Post here- I think allot fo people here would like to know. We know MQ tapes seem to work well- what else are you guys getting good results with?

_____ THE SAGA CONTINUES _______

Peter Richardson · October 30th, 2003, 08:35 PM

Ted--I've been using MQ tapes since day one and still had problems, so they are most certainly not the solution.

Peter

Steve Nunez · October 31st, 2003, 01:14 PM

Well just got back from B&H and tested (purchased) a new DVC80......using Panasonic DVM60ME (consumer grade) tapes- footage is perfect- no drop-outs, macro blocks, nada- everything is spot on perfect- just as it should be......my advice is: to anyone who got a DVC/DVX with problem heads- return it and hurt the manufacturer where it counts- the pocket! If everyone sends in their Pans and get's them either fixed or serviced at manufacturers cost (under warranty) or returns the unit from the get- the manufacturer may get the point that us "prosumers" will not accept 'workaround' fixes for something that should function perfectly from the get......Nikon too tried pushing the D1 series of cameras on professionals claiming no color issues when it did indeed have a magenta shifting problem which it later admitted........we just have to voice it whatever way we can- and to the manufacturers bottom line ($$$) ~it usually get's the message across.......so stop buying MQ tapes because you think your camcorder "has to" use them......if you wanna use them because of the increase robustness or professional archival or whatever- then that's fine- but to force an end user to buy a certain tape and brand in order for a camera to work is not an acceptable solution to me....

....just my opinion.

I'm glad the heads issue is behind me and I can now focus on getting great footage as this camera promises to deliver!

For me

_______The Saga Has Ended ___________

Marc Young · October 31st, 2003, 05:47 PM

Suppose the dropout problem reappears after two weeks. Will B&H still accept the camera back in return? That would be the second time. They happen to be a good seller, but there has to be a limit.

The rest of us who bought from Buydig are wondering how good their return policy is. This seems like a good time to look up Panasonic's factory repair center phone # and address.

In the manual it says that the heads have to be replaced after 1000 hours. Well, what does this mean to the end user? Are some destined to fail at 500 hrs, or 250 hrs? That would be dreadful.

You sorta get suspicious when the manufacturer gives you a free cleaning tape as an accessory, but doesn't give you an MQ tape. What are we to read between the lines?

Steve Nunez · October 31st, 2003, 07:40 PM

Marc you bring up some very good points. All worth looking into- this is the time to be an informed buyer and be aware of issues that may occur.

As for B&H here's how it goes: they allow returns on video equipment but only within 7 days of purchase and you must have ALL original papers and packaging as well as blank warranty cards- they inspect returns very carefully and anything that is not in pristine condition is subject to a hefty restocking fee or denial of return alltogether- nothing unacceptable but do remember this is an aspect of business they likely don't care for!!!! So you have 7 days to abuse your camcorder and make sure it's a top performing piece of equipment as to bring out any flaws if there are any- sounds bad but with only 7 days to return- there's limited time to find out about any problems....if you're a NYC native or within driving distance- they're the best bet in town. If you're gonna mail order I'd suggest checking into the site's sponsors and check for the better return policies- this might be the biggest aspect of purchasing merchandise of unknown quality.

I myself think this new DVC80 will be fine as i have purposely done everything that has caused issues with other people's DVX/DVC cameras to misbehave- everything from using consumer grade mini-DV tapes to using tapes that are not tightly wound and recording in LP mode and letterbox- yet this particular DVC has come through perfectly 100%- so I finally feel I have a perfect working DVC80- but only time will tell how good it really is- but all indicators point to a relaible unit. I will likely get the 2/4 year MACK warranty as it's probably worth it's weight in gold with these Panasonics.

I really hope Panasonic doesn't continue to have problems with the DV C/X series of camcorders as they truly are excellent pieces of video equipment worthy of the praise and accolades they have received.......I'm keeping my fingers crossed for my unit! Hope you guys get good results with yours.

1 More thing i'd like to ad. These forums are a great source for networking of information- but you have to keep in mind that most of the forum particiants have perfectly working DV camcorders but will vocally make note of improper working camcorders of which others will chime in about problems as well- it will come across as a plaque of problems but in reality it's a small slice of sold units of which likely 95%+ work perfectly......it's the small 5% of us that have problems that everyone reads about......so I'd hate to think I was personally bashing the DVC80 or DVX line, but more pointing out flaws which seem somewhat prevalent but to what extent is unknown....the fact that my current DVC works well is testament that not every DVC/DVX is affected with poor heads.....but that there are a number of units which do appear to have problems.

Nuff said!

Peter J Alessandria · October 31st, 2003, 10:22 PM

Steve - I just watched your .mov of the problem. That is not typical tape drop out. I had that problem with my DVX when it was brand new. The pixelation was random. Yours was not. There was definitely a mechanical/electrical problem with your camera. I think this is a different issue than we've all been having with our heads getting clogged after a few minutes of use.

I'm glad you got a new camera and hope it serves you well.

Steve Nunez · November 1st, 2003, 06:15 AM

Peter,

well I can only speak of the issues I had with my personal DVC and what you saw in that .mov was what I was experiencing, if that was not typical of the complaints here re: drop-outs etc- all the more reason to suspect head problems with these Panasonics....maybe there was/is some sort of quality control issue over at Pan that let a bunch of these models out with suspect heads- I just hope there are only a handful of them out there.

Can someone post a short clip with the drop-outs they've experienced?

Here's a short 1 minute video showcasing the new DVC80 and how well it's working for me- so far I am very pleased with this new DVC....much impressed!

http://stevenunez.com/video/dvc80sample.mov

Scott Plowman · November 4th, 2003, 12:06 PM

Steve.. How did you acheive Film look with your DVC 80 film you showed??? Post Production i assume... I have a DVC 80 I got back in Early September It works great.. No Problems yet.. knock on wood. I am using Fuji DV film.. It works great!

October 30th, 2003, 06:41 PM	#32
Steve Nunez Trustee Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Pembroke Pines, Florida Posts: 1,418	Definite head problem!! Well put me on the list of those having tape head problems. My DVC80 is brand spanking new and after using it 5 minutes- I noticed tons of drop-outs and weird large pixel blocks on the screen all garbled up......problem is when you're recording you have no idea that your incoming footage is getting messed up- you'll only find out when you try to play back....I ran a head cleaner tape for 10 seconds as per instructions- but still the problem exisists....even worse if I play a tape recorded from one of my other camcorders- it again shows the footage all messed up- which confirms this is a head problem- something is misaligned....I've tested it with footage that plays 100% perfectly previously shot with my XL1S and sure enough pixel boxes with weird colors, lines the right side of the video screen- the rest of the screen is perfect- if the video is FF the pixel boxes disappear- definitely a head problem here!!!! I only use Panasonic DVM60ME tapes and never had a problem with them when used in a GL2, XL1s, PDX10, Pan Palmcorder and DVX100- but this DVC80 is absolutely recording some weired pixelated video......the DVC80 goes back to B&H tomorrow AM for a replacement unit.....I'm gonna keep my fingers crossed that this was a 1X fluke and that this is not an inherent problem with DVX/DVC series of camcorders......I'll post an update tomorrow with the new unit. __________________ Steve Nunez-New York City www.stevenunez.com

October 30th, 2003, 07:31 PM	#34
Steve Nunez Trustee Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Pembroke Pines, Florida Posts: 1,418	Come on now- you "have to" to use a certain brand and type of tape or you'll experience drop-outs or head tracking problems? This can't be true- no other one of my camcorders have ever needed this special attention to tape type- just doesn't sound right for a $2500 Pro mini-DV camcorder! I mean I'm using Panasonic Brand tapes in SP mode in 60 minute capacity as Panasonic recommended in their user's manual.......maybe MQ tapes are more robust or whatever and cease the head issues when other types are used but this sounds like a problem mask or workaround rather than a solid recording head.......my unit goes back tomorrow for another DVC80- if that unit does the same thing then I'll get a refund and look at something else! Here's exactly what's happening with brand new 60 min Panasonic tapes in a camcorder less than 5 minutes old- and as recommended by Panasonic themselves.......you guys tell me if something's not wrong here!!!!! http://stevenunez.com/video/panheadprob.mov PS- The video shows some airbrushed artwork I'm in the process of creating for a show motorcycle for the NY Jacob Javits M/C Show 2004....I was trying to tape a "in progress" type video showing the before, during and after, of the bikes creation...the DVC80 let me down big time as all the footage contained data damage. __________________ Steve Nunez-New York City www.stevenunez.com

October 30th, 2003, 08:05 PM	#36
Steve Nunez Trustee Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Pembroke Pines, Florida Posts: 1,418	Ted, I just packed the camera up, back in the box about 2 hrs ago- does the Panasonic 'User's Manual" specify MQ series type tapes only? How about Professional Quality (PQ) tapes? If not then I think Panasonic has a serious issue here- from what I recall there was a warning about shooting in 90 min mode and using LP mode- other than that I believe it recommends using genuine Panasonic brand tapes and shooting in 60 min/SP Mode- so the DVM60ME Panasonic Tapes should be adequate as per manufacturer's recommendations.....anything else is just a shady workaround for seemingly delicate heads....I definitely recommend getting an extended warranty to anyone thinking of getting a DVC80 or DVX100! I have about 50 new Panasonic DVM60ME tapes that are seemingly useless for a DVX/DVC camera---- I thought mini-DV was mini-DV, now we have to be brand and type specific or a camera will not perform...that's horrible- no excuses! ~~ Matter of fact- I'm gonna take the new camera out right there at B&H and if it does the same thing- I'll show the store staff and even use a new sealed tape----- and i'll walk out with my $2500! (such a shame for such a super camera- I guess even camcorders have a "kryptonite" !!!!!) __________________ Steve Nunez-New York City www.stevenunez.com

October 30th, 2003, 08:27 PM	#38
Steve Nunez Trustee Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Pembroke Pines, Florida Posts: 1,418	What's even more strange is that I just dug up an old tape shot with my DVX100 and just played it with a Panasonic Palmcorder and the footage is 100% perfect- and this was shot with a DVX100 and on Pan DVM60ME tape- so what gives???? If it absolutely NEEDED MQ series tapes then the footage I'm looking at of saw whet owls should be messed up- but it's perfect------nah something's up here....I'm keeping my fingers crossed for tomorrow's DVC80. Plus a few replies back someone wrote that they still had head problems even when using the MQ tapes-----come on Panasonic- fix these DVC/X cameras! (( Problem is- what do i get next if the DVC80 craps out?? )) Side note: Has anyone got their DVX or DVC's working with ME tapes at all? Post here- I think allot fo people here would like to know. We know MQ tapes seem to work well- what else are you guys getting good results with? _____ THE SAGA CONTINUES _______ __________________ Steve Nunez-New York City www.stevenunez.com

October 31st, 2003, 01:14 PM	#40
Steve Nunez Trustee Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Pembroke Pines, Florida Posts: 1,418	Well just got back from B&H and tested (purchased) a new DVC80......using Panasonic DVM60ME (consumer grade) tapes- footage is perfect- no drop-outs, macro blocks, nada- everything is spot on perfect- just as it should be......my advice is: to anyone who got a DVC/DVX with problem heads- return it and hurt the manufacturer where it counts- the pocket! If everyone sends in their Pans and get's them either fixed or serviced at manufacturers cost (under warranty) or returns the unit from the get- the manufacturer may get the point that us "prosumers" will not accept 'workaround' fixes for something that should function perfectly from the get......Nikon too tried pushing the D1 series of cameras on professionals claiming no color issues when it did indeed have a magenta shifting problem which it later admitted........we just have to voice it whatever way we can- and to the manufacturers bottom line ($$$) ~it usually get's the message across.......so stop buying MQ tapes because you think your camcorder "has to" use them......if you wanna use them because of the increase robustness or professional archival or whatever- then that's fine- but to force an end user to buy a certain tape and brand in order for a camera to work is not an acceptable solution to me.... ....just my opinion. I'm glad the heads issue is behind me and I can now focus on getting great footage as this camera promises to deliver! For me _______The Saga Has Ended ___________ __________________ Steve Nunez-New York City www.stevenunez.com

October 30th, 2003, 10:32 AM	#31
Peter Richardson Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 608	Hi Marc. My problems with heads were the same as Ted's: the tape was recorded with the dropout--obviously a very bad thing. If this camera wasn't so great in so many other respects, this would be a major reason not get it (especially as it seems a lot of people have problems with this). You might get the Mack extended warranty as who knows what happens to these heads after a year or two of use. Also, if you buy the cam with a visa or mastercard platinum, the warranty is automatically doubled (for free) which is what I'm counting on if I run into more problems down the road. Hope that helps, peter

October 30th, 2003, 06:47 PM	#33
Ted Banucci Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: San Jose, CA USA Posts: 27	READ! You have to use the Panasonic MQ tapes!!!! That fixes everything. I recently got mine and the camera works like a charm now.....

October 30th, 2003, 07:52 PM	#35
Ted Banucci Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: San Jose, CA USA Posts: 27	Steve- I know what you are talking about. I'm peeved over the situation too. I mean, I have to go from $3.00 tapes to $5.60 tapes. I was able to use any kind of tape in my old GL1- but this DVX100 kicked me in the a$$ when I tried to do the same! Call it a conspiracy, call it whatever you want. Go try getting an MQ tape for yourself and see what happens. It'll work. I agree- I don't think a $3000 camera should have that kind of discrepancy with tapes. But this camera has the features I want at the cost I can pay. So I am willing to spend an extra $2.60 per tape to make that happen. Maybe if we all make a suit against Panasonic...... nah. Ted

October 30th, 2003, 08:13 PM	#37
Ted Banucci Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: San Jose, CA USA Posts: 27	I don't blame you. Get a GL2 for $1000 less....

October 30th, 2003, 08:35 PM	#39
Peter Richardson Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 608	Ted--I've been using MQ tapes since day one and still had problems, so they are most certainly not the solution. Peter

October 31st, 2003, 05:47 PM	#41
Marc Young Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 112	Suppose the dropout problem reappears after two weeks. Will B&H still accept the camera back in return? That would be the second time. They happen to be a good seller, but there has to be a limit. The rest of us who bought from Buydig are wondering how good their return policy is. This seems like a good time to look up Panasonic's factory repair center phone # and address. In the manual it says that the heads have to be replaced after 1000 hours. Well, what does this mean to the end user? Are some destined to fail at 500 hrs, or 250 hrs? That would be dreadful. You sorta get suspicious when the manufacturer gives you a free cleaning tape as an accessory, but doesn't give you an MQ tape. What are we to read between the lines?

October 31st, 2003, 07:40 PM	#42
Steve Nunez Trustee Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Pembroke Pines, Florida Posts: 1,418	Marc you bring up some very good points. All worth looking into- this is the time to be an informed buyer and be aware of issues that may occur. As for B&H here's how it goes: they allow returns on video equipment but only within 7 days of purchase and you must have ALL original papers and packaging as well as blank warranty cards- they inspect returns very carefully and anything that is not in pristine condition is subject to a hefty restocking fee or denial of return alltogether- nothing unacceptable but do remember this is an aspect of business they likely don't care for!!!! So you have 7 days to abuse your camcorder and make sure it's a top performing piece of equipment as to bring out any flaws if there are any- sounds bad but with only 7 days to return- there's limited time to find out about any problems....if you're a NYC native or within driving distance- they're the best bet in town. If you're gonna mail order I'd suggest checking into the site's sponsors and check for the better return policies- this might be the biggest aspect of purchasing merchandise of unknown quality. I myself think this new DVC80 will be fine as i have purposely done everything that has caused issues with other people's DVX/DVC cameras to misbehave- everything from using consumer grade mini-DV tapes to using tapes that are not tightly wound and recording in LP mode and letterbox- yet this particular DVC has come through perfectly 100%- so I finally feel I have a perfect working DVC80- but only time will tell how good it really is- but all indicators point to a relaible unit. I will likely get the 2/4 year MACK warranty as it's probably worth it's weight in gold with these Panasonics. I really hope Panasonic doesn't continue to have problems with the DV C/X series of camcorders as they truly are excellent pieces of video equipment worthy of the praise and accolades they have received.......I'm keeping my fingers crossed for my unit! Hope you guys get good results with yours. 1 More thing i'd like to ad. These forums are a great source for networking of information- but you have to keep in mind that most of the forum particiants have perfectly working DV camcorders but will vocally make note of improper working camcorders of which others will chime in about problems as well- it will come across as a plaque of problems but in reality it's a small slice of sold units of which likely 95%+ work perfectly......it's the small 5% of us that have problems that everyone reads about......so I'd hate to think I was personally bashing the DVC80 or DVX line, but more pointing out flaws which seem somewhat prevalent but to what extent is unknown....the fact that my current DVC works well is testament that not every DVC/DVX is affected with poor heads.....but that there are a number of units which do appear to have problems. Nuff said! __________________ Steve Nunez-New York City www.stevenunez.com

October 31st, 2003, 10:22 PM	#43
Peter J Alessandria Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 293	Steve - I just watched your .mov of the problem. That is not typical tape drop out. I had that problem with my DVX when it was brand new. The pixelation was random. Yours was not. There was definitely a mechanical/electrical problem with your camera. I think this is a different issue than we've all been having with our heads getting clogged after a few minutes of use. I'm glad you got a new camera and hope it serves you well.

November 1st, 2003, 06:15 AM	#44
Steve Nunez Trustee Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Pembroke Pines, Florida Posts: 1,418	Peter, well I can only speak of the issues I had with my personal DVC and what you saw in that .mov was what I was experiencing, if that was not typical of the complaints here re: drop-outs etc- all the more reason to suspect head problems with these Panasonics....maybe there was/is some sort of quality control issue over at Pan that let a bunch of these models out with suspect heads- I just hope there are only a handful of them out there. Can someone post a short clip with the drop-outs they've experienced? Here's a short 1 minute video showcasing the new DVC80 and how well it's working for me- so far I am very pleased with this new DVC....much impressed! http://stevenunez.com/video/dvc80sample.mov __________________ Steve Nunez-New York City www.stevenunez.com

November 4th, 2003, 12:06 PM	#45
Scott Plowman Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Kansas City, Kansas, USA Posts: 85	Steve.. How did you acheive Film look with your DVC 80 film you showed??? Post Production i assume... I have a DVC 80 I got back in Early September It works great.. No Problems yet.. knock on wood. I am using Fuji DV film.. It works great!